Why do people believe in sin and forgiveness?

[Jamala]

To: Mr Ed....
One is not required to forgive anyone for anything. It is not incumbent that a person must be exonerated for extreme wrongs they committed… even one’s parents.

At the end of the day, parents are only people who happen to have children. They are not perfect, some are very good, some are not. That’s the way the cookie crumbles. One has little choice while under their care. Your parents had lives before they had you… perhaps events in their own lives played a huge part in how you were treated. It may be they had no idea they were doing anything wrong.

However, when you get out of that situation you have a choice: you can hold on to the anger and negativity or you can rise above it. No one is doomed forever, one can always change paths.

Healthwise, holding on to negativity is detrimental to anyone’s mental and physical health.

“Forgiveness” is a scary word for some and quite understandable. I prefer to say accept and acknowledge what happened, and continue your journey.

As for “sin”… well in my book it does not exist and should not be an albatross around anyone’s neck. I wish I knew who is dishing out these “sins.”

Yes, there is good and evil in every human heart. Evil may remain latent for a long time, but given the right circumstances will manifest itself in a surprising way.

That is the nature of a human being. I prefer to see the good in people.

 

[Lara]

You may be surprised to know that I was a born again Christian from 1972 to 1980. I was intoxicated by Jesus and the Holy Spirit and prayed all the time. I went to malls and sang Christian songs, and was a leader of worship services often. I know everything you believe, almost exactly as you have described. I got very frustrated with the God that people wound up on Sundays. So many Christians say they believe in Christ, but do not behave like Jesus instructed them. Jesus had no possessions, but most Christians worry and are always concerned /worried about their material possessions. I also thought that leaders in the churches were very hypocritical, and yet they taught their flock on how to follow Christ.

I hope I didn't make you feel like I was attacking you in Post #25. I was only attacking Existentialism...not you at all. Quite the contrary. Your post was a great post and I thank you for that opportunity to learn and share.

I just reviewed my Post#25. I see now that I started 2 paragraphs with "This may surprise you". You may have taken that the wrong way. Since Existentialism has been around for a very long time and discussed by famous thinkers and philosophers, I knew I was way out of my league to voice an opinion. I was criticizing myself for jumping in on a subject I knew little about other than what I read in your post.

Regarding your comment about Christian hypocrites...you are correct that some Christians are hypocrites but we don't have to concern ourselves with them, nor judge them. Beware of them but we can just leave them up to God. He will take care of it.

We only need to pay attention to keeping ourselves in check and doing our best to be honest, sincere, and pure. Philippians 4:8 "Finally brethren, whatsoever things are true, honest, just, pure, lovely, of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

 

[Gary O']

So many Christians say they believe in Christ, but do not behave like Jesus instructed them. Jesus had no possessions, but most Christians worry and are always concerned /worried about their material possessions. I also thought that leaders in the churches were very hypocritical, and yet they taught their flock on how to follow Christ.

Been there
Now know to look to Him
Not others

 

[Lara]

I also found out about how the Bible came to be. Most of it was written long after Christ lived...if he even did...and is considered by most Biblical scholars to be geared towards Rome's edict by Constantine that allowed Christians to worship the way they wanted. That is when most of the Bible was written. It is all apologetic to support the religion and most of the stories are not true. It is a work of fiction, not the "WORD OF GOD".

I know all the arguments and I still choose God. I've read words of "Biblical Scholars" and I choose God.
I've experienced His love, His devotion, His miracles in nature, in life, answers to prayer, His perfect timing, and knows what's best for me...not what I want necessarily.

He's been there for me because I'm there for Him. He's taught me via the School of Hard Knocks sometimes because that's what fathers do. He's my Heavenly Father.

 

[MarciKS]

I've really given up trying to help you on this. You just can't get this god shit out of your head. You just can't forgive your parents and move on. I'm sorry for your torment, but stopping this obsession is up to you and you alone.

My parents made many mistakes but they did their best. Perhaps what you got was their best, the best they could do. You'll never find peace Ed, you refuse to forgive.

Sometimes people have to work through things. Maybe this is how he is working through it.

 

[Nathan]

You may be surprised to know that I was a born again Christian from 1972 to 1980. I was intoxicated by Jesus and the Holy Spirit and prayed all the time. I went to malls and sang Christian songs, and was a leader of worship services often. I know everything you believe, almost exactly as you have described. I got very frustrated with the God that people wound up on Sundays. So many Christians say they believe in Christ, but do not behave like Jesus instructed them. Jesus had no possessions, but most Christians worry and are always concerned /worried about their material possessions. I also thought that leaders in the churches were very hypocritical, and yet they taught their flock on how to follow Christ.

I also found out about how the Bible came to be. Most of it was written long after Christ lived...if he even did...and is considered by most Biblical scholars to be geared towards Rome's edict by Constantine that allowed Christians to worship the way they wanted. That is when most of the Bible was written. It is all apologetic to support the religion and most of the stories are not true. It is a work of fiction, not the "WORD OF GOD".

Sadly there are many Christians that proclaim their love for Jesus, but in practice seem to reject what he taught and gave his life for.

There are noisy in-your-face Christians that make a spectacle of themselves. But Matthews 6 lays out Jesus' message from the Sermon on the Mount...

" 1 "Be careful not to do your `acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words."

 

[Mr. Ed]

My original intent of this post was meant to question the validity of sin and Jesus, the forgiver. A big selling point for Christianity is offering forgiveness of sin as part of the membership package. I didn’t choose parents and I was destined to grow up in the Southern Baptist tradition, not Christianity, but to support the preacher. A backassward attempt to gain and maintain status and popularity.
it was confusing having a dad who was neither dad or preacher but an image of deception that was never really there.

 

[vintageMo]

If it weren't for God, there would be NO Right or Wrong.

 

[mrstime]

I turned off after watching "born agains" hate! Anyone who wasn't their idea of "born again" was to be hated and avoided including children. Sorry but that really was a huge turn off.

 

[Lara]

I hear you Mr. Ed. I understand your pain and I'm sorry I've been insensitive and impatient in my previous response. Please forgive me. I do care about you and want you to be happy. Let's look at this a different way. Your parents are gone now. They can't control you anymore. You're now free. Free as a bird. And there is still time to enjoy the rest of the life you have ahead of you.

Let go of the past now because it's just sucking the joy out of you. Say to yourself, "I don't deserve that anymore". Get excited about your new life ahead of you and make plans. There's nothing you can do to change the past. That Dragon wants to continue devouring every part of you everyday as you live in pain. Say NO. Slay that Dragon by making the most of the days you have left. Don't let it rob you of your Joy one more minute. You deserve better.

If you choose, maybe now, maybe later, maybe never...your choice...find God in your own way starting with a clean slate this time. He loves you and is patiently waiting. Ask Him to,"Create in me a clean heart, God, and put a new and right spirit within me. Do not cast me away from your presence, and do not take your holy spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and sustain in me a willing spirit" Psalm 51:10-12

 

[Knight]

I feel betrayed by parents playing out their lives and beliefs in fear of god and the misery of sin they desperately tried to avoid. Christianity made me miserable. My parents were miserable and going to church reinforced the miserable life we were to enjoy.

So now that you are mature & make decisions for yourself

do you think about forgiveness for the life lived that you had no choice in at the time?

 

[Jamala]

If it weren't for God, there would be NO Right or Wrong.

Nope.... substitute God for humans.

 

[Jamala]

Proverb from the Jamala bible.... do not take advice from anyone who gives you advice from a book written over 2000 years ago.

 

[Mr. Ed]

Interesting, it took some doing but I forgave my parents based on what I understand about them. I am to blame for putting my dad on a pedestal he not earn. My mother was as much a victim as I was, working hard to keeping my dad's image pure and clean in the home and community so much she had no identity of her own. My mother was never recognized for her contributions, time and money. She was the indivisible support who shined the light on the coward who could not face his familly at home.

My mother tries to show her support of dad by going along with everything he says but she never said anything negative about my dad to anyone of us, that is what confused me as I recalled more from my childhood. As an adult I understand life better than when all of this was happening, back, then I knew no better and accepted my life as the norm.

Looking back, it is more than coincidence that my dad was always doing church work that kept him away from family. i thought he was a diligent pastor who served church and god with all of his might and dedication. I thought he was great until realizing my dad did not talk to my brothers and I about god, Jesus or salvation in all the years I knew him. There is something very wrong with this picture and I see him for what he really was.

I forgive him for the pain he caused me, and I pity him for the extent he went to to avoid his family. On his dying bed my dad blamed my mom for making him feel like a child. This explanation my dad gave for years of family absence. Clearly, he was not a well man, coming home late and leaving for work early to avoid his spouse telling him what to do. Cowardly Lion

 

[David777]

Your parents apparently believed what they taught you and believed it was for your own good, however misguided that may have been. In fact, millions of SB still have those inerrant Bible beliefs that shows such dogma is not a matter of stupidity but rather committing to dominant ideas of the society and culture they lived in. It is not like they knew it was false and purposely misguided you and others. It is true one might criticize the coercive personal methods they used. On the other hand some church authorities that pushed the inerrant Bible narrative, did so as is now documented in supposed scholar's audience only discussions, simply because if they did not, were afraid ordinary followers would given their ignorance believe a wide range of false ideas.

What is biblical inerrancy? A New Testament scholar explains

The doctrine of inerrancy is more post-biblical, even modern. And it has been particularly influential among U.S. evangelicals, who often appeal to the doctrine of inerrancy in arguments against gender equality, social justice, critical race theory and other causes thought to violate the God’s infallible word.

The doctrine of inerrancy took shape during the 19th and 20th centuries in the United States. A statement crafted in 1978 by hundreds of evangelical leaders remains its fullest articulation. Known as the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy, the statement was a response to emerging “liberal” or nonliteral interpretations of the Bible. According to the statement, the Bible speaks with “infallible divine authority in all matters upon which it touches.” In short, the Bible is the final authority.

So, the real blame is with long gone church authorities in an earlier human era of limited communication, moral, and ethical beliefs that made decisions from raw scholar's inputs. Now in this science, technology, telecom era, that dogma has backed itself into an impossible to extract corner, especially trying to defend Young Earth Creationist ideas. In any case in all human societies throughout history, there have been ideas and beliefs humans got wrong and over time that changes as science and wisdom occurs. It is only now in recent decades that we human peons given effort can read, consider, and make our own decisions about many of these matters.

 

[DebraMae]

"To obey the letter of the law is to follow the literal reading of the words of the law, whereas following the spirit of the law is to follow the intention of why the law was enforced. Although it is usual to follow both the letter and the spirit, the two are commonly referenced when they are in opposition." - Wikipedia

Although the above quote is not about religion, it explains my feeling about organized religion. I realized at a young age what Jesus said to do was not what my church leaders were practicing.

Judgment and vengeance abound in the southern evangelical church.

I let them go a long time ago.

 

[Mr. Ed]

Well since you put it like that...no wonder religion is all screwed up...because of humanity. No other beings as humanity believe in fairy tales so reads the scholar.

 

[JustDave]

Interesting, it took some doing but I forgave my parents based on what I understand about them.

It sounds to me like you are still wrestling with it.

I am to blame for putting my dad on a pedestal he not earn.

Nah. Children put their parents on pedestals or alternatively as final authorities because they are children. You are definitely not to blame for that. We can blame ourselves for a lot, but not that one.

My grandmother was a raving Hellfire and Brimstone Baptist, and totally uneducated woman who had little if any wisdom to offer. But she loved me, and I loved her. You want to talk about a damaging relationship? I've cleaned out most of that garbage from my head, but there are probably maggots still clinging to the sides of the can. I don't know what they are if indeed they are there. But I don't have enough energy left to blame her. I never really did. It was the best she could do. I just worked my way out of that religious morass through logic and observation, and left all of it behind. Doesn't matter if it's Christian, Muslim, or Pagan.