Wow-just heard that Tom Hanks has Coronavirus....

Jim W. said:
Well, with regards to Elvis, Prince and MJ, they killed themselves with drugs. Obviously that is an outlier that skews things. I'm talking about normal people who DON'T spend decades poisoning themselves.

Some common sense is necessary.

In the case of Tom Petty, he didn't OD like the others, but he still smoked cigarettes after decades and probably didn't bother to go in for regular physicals. Chances are, he could've saved his life by taking advantage of the opportunities his wealth created and utilizing the preventative measures at his disposal. And by giving up cigarettes.

Frank Zappa is another case in point. He died of prostate cancer. Why? Given that it's a slow growing cancer, he probably could have caught it early by having an annual physical and extended his life indefinitely.

Point remains.... his wealth gave him opportunities to prolong his life that people of lesser means don't have at their disposal, or at least, not as conveniently at their disposal as very wealthy people do.

The fact that he didn't take advantage of them is irrelevant.
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It's very presumptuous to assume that Frank Zappa, Tom Petty or other now-deceased rock stars didn't have annual physicals.
 

Jim W. said:
Well, with regards to Elvis, Prince and MJ, they killed themselves with drugs. Obviously that is an outlier that skews things. I'm talking about normal people who DON'T spend decades poisoning themselves.

Some common sense is necessary.

In the case of Tom Petty, he didn't OD like the others, but he still smoked cigarettes after decades and probably didn't bother to go in for regular physicals. Chances are, he could've saved his life by taking advantage of the opportunities his wealth created and utilizing the preventative measures at his disposal. And by giving up cigarettes.

Frank Zappa is another case in point. He died of prostate cancer. Why? Given that it's a slow growing cancer, he probably could have caught it early by having an annual physical and extended his life indefinitely.

Point remains.... his wealth gave him opportunities to prolong his life that people of lesser means don't have at their disposal, or at least, not as conveniently at their disposal as very wealthy people do.

The fact that he didn't take advantage of them is irrelevant.
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Unless you were their personal physicians, you know nothing about their medical histories or whether they had annual physicals or screenings.
 
win231 said:
It's my understanding from talking to my dad's doctor that prostate cancer is slow growing in an elderly man; not a younger man (like Frank Zappa or Dan Fogelberg). My dad had prostate cancer at 75 & his doctor said to not treat it because the treatment would make him sick with no benefit. He died of a fall - 26 years later.
There is a big difference between a recreational drug (like cocaine) & a drug prescribed by a doctor. Elvis, Prince & Michael Jackson were under their doctors' care & took prescription drugs prescribed by their doctors - like most celebrities. Their doctors know a gold mine when they see it & a drug-addicted celebrity is just that.

Some people who want to place blame on the celebrity will say, "Well, they asked for the drugs, so it's not the doctor's fault." Uh, no. On one side of the room, we have a pop star or actor with no medical education. On the other side of the room, we have a medical doctor with a medical degree. Which one is qualified to decide whether their patient should get drugs? If a patient asks their doctor for drugs, it's up to the doctor to say, "No, I won't prescribe that because it would be too dangerous."
Of course, that's where the money thing comes in; doctors make a fortune prescribing, so they don't want to do what's best for the patient....especially when the patient is wealthy & doesn't mind paying him so much.

"In the last years of his life, Jackson suffered from insomnia and like Elvis, had a physician only too happy to prescribe whatever drugs he demanded. On June 25, 2009, Michael Jackson's death shocked the world. He died in his rented Beverly Hills home from cardiac arrest caused by propofol and benzodiazepine intoxication. His autopsy found an incredible array of mood and anti-depressant drugs in his system, including Valium, Lorazepam, midazolam, lidocaine, propofol, and others. Jackson's personal doctor would later stand trial and be convicted for involuntary manslaughter and spend two years in prison."

Elvis' doctor made over $30,000.00 per month just on his prescriptions. Prescribing incentive? Perish the thought....
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So.... in other words.... Elvis, MJ and Prince spent decades poisoning themselves with potent drugs.... drugs that even though legal with a prescription.... are every bit as toxic as illegal narcotics... if abused and taken in excessive quantities over long periods of time.... which is what I said in my previous post.

So, re: my original point concerning the advantages wealthy people have over non-wealthy people.... if you use common sense, live a reasonably healthy lifestyle AND DON'T TAKE LARGE QUANTITIES OF POWERFUL NARCOTIC DRUGS - LEGAL OR OTHERWISE - and if you take advantage of the opportunities for preventative care that your wealth provides by getting regular checkups, .... you have a much better outlook for longevity than poor and working class people who can't afford top notch health care or to get checkups on a regular basis.

No, wealth is obviously not an automatic life extender. The owner of the wealth must do their part.
 

win231 said:
Unless you were their personal physicians, you know nothing about their medical histories or whether they had annual physicals or screenings.
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No, but one can make common sense assumptions based on known data.

Tom Petty smoked cigarettes. He died of a heart attack.

Smoking + stress = heart attack.

Had he visited his doctor and been referred to a cardiologist, chances are he might've been able to extend his life indefinitely.
 
Jim W. said:
So.... in other words.... Elvis, MJ and Prince spent decades poisoning themselves with potent drugs.... drugs that even though legal with a prescription.... are every bit as toxic as illegal narcotics... if abused and taken in excessive quantities over long periods of time.... which is what I said in my previous post.

So, re: my original point concerning the advantages wealthy people have over non-wealthy people.... if you use common sense, live a reasonably healthy lifestyle AND DON'T TAKE LARGE QUANTITIES OF POWERFUL NARCOTIC DRUGS - LEGAL OR OTHERWISE - and if you take advantage of the opportunities for preventative care that your wealth provides by getting regular checkups, .... you have a much better outlook for longevity than poor and working class people who can't afford top notch health care or to get checkups on a regular basis.

No, wealth is obviously not an automatic life extender. The owner of the wealth must do their part.
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The point you want to avoid: Celebrities got the drugs from their doctors, who put profit ahead of their patient's safety.
BTW, any doctors in your family?
 
StarSong said:
It's very presumptuous to assume that Frank Zappa, Tom Petty or other now-deceased rock stars didn't have annual physicals.
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Why wasn't Zappa's prostate cancer found until after it was too late? Annual or semi annual checkups would catch it early.

And of course, heart attacks can happen suddenly with no warning, but Tom Petty smoked his entire life, which still plays into my point.

He had the opportunities to maintain his health that most people don't have.
 
Jim W. said:
No, but one can make common sense assumptions based on known data.

Tom Petty smoked cigarettes. He died of a heart attack.

Smoking + stress = heart attack.

Had he visited his doctor and been referred to a cardiologist, chances are he might've been able to extend his life indefinitely.
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Suggestion: A bit of research would be beneficial:
"Petty’s death was initially reported as a heart attack, but in January 2018 the L.A. County Coroner announced his demise was due to an accidental overdose of prescription medications. The autopsy found opioids oxycodone, acetyl fentanyl, fentanyl, and despropionyl fentanyl, the antidepressant citalopram, and the sedatives alprazolam and temazepam in his system."
Sadly, Tom Petty’s name was added to the growing list of celebrities who’ve died during our nation's current opioid epidemic.
 
win231 said:
The point you want to avoid: Celebrities got the drugs from their doctors, who put profit ahead of their patient's safety.
BTW, any doctors in your family?
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Not avoiding it, it's just not relevant.

They had a responsibility to not allow themselves to be lured into the trap to begin with.

Their doctors didn't hold them down and force the drugs down their throats.
 
win231 said:
Suggestion: A bit of research would be beneficial:
"Petty’s death was initially reported as a heart attack, but in January 2018 the L.A. County Coroner announced his demise was due to an accidental overdose of prescription medications. The autopsy found opioids oxycodone, acetyl fentanyl, fentanyl, and despropionyl fentanyl, the antidepressant citalopram, and the sedatives alprazolam and temazepam in his system."
Sadly, Tom Petty’s name was added to the growing list of celebrities who’ve died during our nation's current opioid epidemic.
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So, he died from poisoning himself with powerful narcotics.

I'm right either way.

Thanks.
 
Jim W. said:
Not avoiding it, it's just not relevant.

They had a responsibility to not allow themselves to be lured into the trap to begin with.

Their doctors didn't hold them down and force the drugs down their throats.
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Doctors don't have to force drugs down their patients' throats; all they have to do is write prescriptions.
How many doctors in your family?
 
win231 said:
Doctors don't have to force drugs down their patients' throats; all they have to do is write prescriptions.
How many doctors in your family?
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The recipient doesn't have to fill them or take the drugs.

This has gone way off topic, BTW.
 
Jim W. said:
So, he died from poisoning himself with powerful narcotics.

I'm right either way.

Thanks.
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Uh, right. Narcotics his doctors prescribed....which means his doctors poisoned him.
Why was Dr. Conrad Murray convicted of manslaughter & sentenced to 4 years in prison for killing Michael Jackson if it wasn't his fault?
Denial - it's not just a river in Egypt.
Again.....how many doctors in your family?
 
win231 said:
Uh, right. Narcotics his doctors prescribed....which means his doctors poisoned him.
Why was Dr. Conrad Murray convicted of manslaughter & sentenced to 4 years in prison for killing Michael Jackson if it wasn't his fault?
Denial - it's not just a river in Egypt.
Again.....how many doctors in your family?
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All of that has ZERO to do with my initial point which is that the wealthier a person is, the more and better opportunities they have to keep themselves alive and healthy that poor and working class people don't.

If some rock stars allow themselves to succumb to the temptation to use drugs or to allow their personal physicians to be their legal, personal drug pushers, that's got nothing to do with whether or not they had advantages over regular folk to begin with.

You can disagree all you want to, it's a free country.

But AFAIC, my point still stands.

And the occupational history of my family is NOYB.
 
Jim W. said:
All of that has ZERO to do with my initial point which is that the wealthier a person is, the more and better opportunities they have to keep themselves alive and healthy that poor and working class people don't.

If some rock stars allow themselves to succumb to the temptation to use drugs or to allow their personal physicians to be their legal, personal drug pushers, that's got nothing to do with whether or not they had advantages over regular folk to begin with.

You can disagree all you want to, it's a free country.

But AFAIC, my point still stands.

And the occupational history of my family is NOYB.
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Thanks. You answered my question. ;)
 
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