Wrestling with a dichotomy of two principles.

[gruntlabor]

Whatever shall I do?
Shall I eat this cookie and go blind with diabetic retinopathy?
Or shall I not, and slobber and foam at the mouth with frustration?
I will compromise, eat half the cookie.
Yeah, right, I'll do that..

 

[chic]

There are good people.
There are bad people.
Good things happen.
Bad things happen.

Apart from the obvious 'cause and effect' - I don't believe there are any other connections.

I must agree with this consensus and add that virtue is it's own reward? That's the only way it would sense to me.

 

[Magna-Carta]

We've all heard the phrase that "You reap what you sow", with the general understanding that undesirable consequences are the natural outcome of bad behavior, and it seems rather sound. Somewhat similar to Karma.

By the same token, we recognize that bad things can happen to good people and good things can happen to bad people. You may even be one of those good people who has endured a lot of grief, and yet you know others who are basically not so good, and they seem to prosper, and like the story of Job in the Old Testament, you wonder: "why me"?

Both Senaca and Marcus Aurelius seemed to be in agreement that both death and life, honor and dishonor, pain and pleasure, wealth and poverty all happen equally to good men and bad, and therefore should not be considered as either bad or good. They are only perceived that way in the mind, but a good person stays detached from things not under their control, so they don't view them that way.

It seems that both of these principles are at odds, and that there is no appointed guardian of the good man's luggage. But if that is true, then how do we accept the premise that you reap what you sow?

I think as humans we mostly and naturally, perhaps even subconsciously, look for patterns. I think some of us, depending on various things including personality, can be drawn towards and fascinated by patterns more than others. “You reap what you sow” might be part of that. However, the outcome of you reap what you sow might not necessarily be a given. It seems to me to be a ‘cause and effect’ phrase, and nothing more.

But saying that, any cause might not always have the same effect when repeated, and therefore in my mind, the phrase “You reap what you sow” may not be accurate all the time, especially when introducing the variable of ‘circumstances’. With that in mind then, I don’t see "You reap what you sow" as an absolute. It’s more of a concept, but a concept that resonates in different ways with different people. I don’t think I would be able to relate to someone who sees it as an absolute.

As for ‘Karma’, *sigh…* this seems more of a spiritual thing to me. I usually say I’m the most unspiritual person I know, yet interestingly, some others disagree with my assessment of myself. Anyway, I think to myself, where is the scientific evidence that Karma exists beyond a concept or philosophy? I have never used the word karma when seeing something happen to someone. I just can’t bring myself to use the word that way, even if I tried. A 'brick wall' comes up in my mind if I think about saying it. It just doesn’t sit well with me. I don’t see the word karma and the phrase 'you reap what you sow' as being remotely the same thing.

 

[Magna-Carta]

Deep post (OP) Bob. I'll have to think about how to answer. Now about sex without protection...even when protection is used, one can catch an STD. One must know how to properly use the protection (condom) . I had to counsel many young men about the proper way to use condoms during my career as a Disease Intervention Specialist with the state's STD program. You'd be surprised how many men don't know how to use a condom properly, some even stating they started out without one, then decided to put one on before climaxing. WTF?!

 

[Magna-Carta]

Wait, you can get an STD or even pregnant climbing without a harness, or tightrope walking without a net?

Yeah, you can. It's surprising to some what others get up to from a multi tasking point of view when in that particular 'act'.

Hmmm...? ...just saying!

 

[bobcat]

I think as humans we mostly and naturally, perhaps even subconsciously, look for patterns. I think some of us, depending on various things including personality, can be drawn towards and fascinated by patterns more than others. “You reap what you sow” might be part of that. However, the outcome of you reap what you sow might not necessarily be a given. It seems to me to be a ‘cause and effect’ phrase, and nothing more.

But saying that, any cause might not always have the same effect when repeated, and therefore in my mind, the phrase “You reap what you sow” may not be accurate all the time, especially when introducing the variable of ‘circumstances’. With that in mind then, I don’t see "You reap what you sow" as an absolute. It’s more of a concept, but a concept that resonates in different ways with different people. I don’t think I would be able to relate to someone who sees it as an absolute.

As for ‘Karma’, *sigh…* this seems more of a spiritual thing to me. I usually say I’m the most unspiritual person I know, yet interestingly, some others disagree with my assessment of myself. Anyway, I think to myself, where is the scientific evidence that Karma exists beyond a concept or philosophy? I have never used the word karma when seeing something happen to someone. I just can’t bring myself to use the word that way, even if I tried. A 'brick wall' comes up in my mind if I think about saying it. It just doesn’t sit well with me. I don’t see the word karma and the phrase 'you reap what you sow' as being remotely the same thing.

I appreciate the input, and I think you have a good read on what the phrase really means. It is just a general concept that is more of a cause and effect relationship. But true all the time, not likely.

As for Karma, I don't think it exists either as a real outcome of behavior. I just used it as a "similar to" concept. You're right, our brain is a pattern searching organ. That's what has allowed us to survive in the evolutionary sense. However, the downside is that we can often formulate patterns that aren't really there. We notice things when they do happen and relate that event to something else if our mind tends to work that way, and we remember it for quite some time. If nothing happens, we just forget it and go on. So all the times something didn't happen are just lost and not coded in memory.

In reality, good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. It's just random, and sometimes it is more one way than another, and we notice that. Anyway, thanks for sharing.

 

[Magna-Carta]

You're right, our brain is a pattern searching organ. That's what has allowed us to survive in the evolutionary sense. However, the downside is that we can often formulate patterns that aren't really there. We notice things when they do happen and relate that event to something else if our mind tends to work that way, and we remember it for quite some time. If nothing happens, we just forget it and go on. So all the times something didn't happen are just lost and not coded in memory.

I totally agree. I believe the tendency for humans to see patterns is important, I think. Some people are far more able and significantly better than others at seeing patterns. And it can be very beneficial, not just from a survival point of view as you mention. We need though to be careful that our ability to see patterns, some of which many others can't see, and never will, don't get in the way of stifling reflection. We are all susceptible to that happening, patterns getting in the way of our thinking that is. Sometimes we have to step away from it, to see the bigger picture, so to speak. It we are not careful, it can get in the way of critical thinking, don't you think?

 

[bobcat]

I totally agree. I believe the tendency for humans to see patterns is important, I think. Some people are far more able and significantly better than others at seeing patterns. And it can be very beneficial, not just from a survival point of view as you mention. We need though to be careful that our ability to see patterns, some of which many others can't see, and never will, don't get in the way of stifling reflection. We are all susceptible to that happening, patterns getting in the way of our thinking that is. Sometimes we have to step away from it, to see the bigger picture, so to speak. It we are not careful, it can get in the way of critical thinking, don't you think?

I do. I think we all lose our way from time to time, and perhaps we need a brief vacation from whatever we have piled on our plate. In doing so, we can call to mind things we may have forgotten, check our moral compass, our values, and see if the direction we have been going is bringing us the fulfillment and happiness we all seek.

I think it's hard to see things clearly when the mind is not allowed to quiet down and let a little wisdom bubble to the surface. Emotions are like an elephant, and when they are left unchecked and uncontrolled they will just trample anything in their path and take us along for the ride. Sometimes dismounting is the best option.