Your opinion in this situation

[debodun]

A woman in her 60s is visiting her 80+ year old mother in the mental health ward of a small hospital. The mother had been diagnosed with dementia and is awaing placement in an assisted care facility. The two women are quietly visiting together and there are no other paients in the ward at that time. At 6 pm a nurse appears and tells the daughter that visiting hours are over. The daughter doesn't leave at continues to visit. Fifteen minutes later the nurse reminds the daughter that visiting hours are over. The daughter continues to ignore the nurse. After about a half an hour the nurse enters the ward again and tells the daughter she has to leave. The daughter than makes a statement to the effect that she will leave when he is ready to.

Ten minutes later, two security guards appear and without a word, grab the daughter by her upper arms, pull her from the chair, drag her down the corridor by her arms and shove her out of the hospital front door. The next day the daughter is sore and has bruises on her upper arms where the guards grabbed her. She consults and attorney, but the attorney will not take the case against the hospital or their security service.

1 - was the daughter wrong not to leave when asked?
2 - did the nurse overreact by calling security?
3 - did the guards use excessive force?
4 - all people involved acted wrongly.

 

[SeaBreeze]

The daughter should have left when visiting hours were over and she was asked the first time. The nurse had every right to call security when the daughter refused to leave the hospital. If she didn't violate the rules and make such a fuss, there would have been no guards involved. If she didn't try and fight the hospital security, there would be no bruises. The daughter is wrong and the lawyer is smart.

 

[Capt Lightning]

I don't know id this was a real case or just a hypothetical one, but it would seem that while there should have been room for compromise given the nature of the visit, any force must be reasonable and proportionate. Was the woman kicking and screaming or did she say, OK, I'm going leave me alone?

 

[debodun]

Put the case that she resisted.

 

[Butterfly]

I completely agree with SeaBeeze. I believe that pretty much universally institutions have the right to set and enforce rules about such things as visiting times. The visitor was in the wrong refusing to leave when asked to do so.

I believe the nurse was right to call security to escort the visitor out, and if she refused to go quietly, they had the right to physically remove her.

The lawyer was smart not to take such a case.

The visitor was wrong in thinking that the rules did not apply to her. Why on earth did the visitor think the didn't have to leave when the hospital told her to?

It's not much different than refusing to leave a store at closing time.

 

[Lewkat]

There are reasons why hospitals set rules for visiting hours. We have routines that have to be attended to and procedures that visitors would only be in the way of. The nurse was correct in following hospital protocol.

 

[AprilSun]

The daughter was wrong for not following their rules. These places need rules to function. Too many times like that and some places could tell her to find her mother another place to stay.

 

[Treacle]

Perhaps when the daughter refused to leave, the nurse should have explained that if everyone refused to leave at the designated time there would be chaos and it would be impossible to give her mother the care she so rightly deserves. If after an explanation, the daughter is not prepared to move she should then be advised that security would be called. Security should hold back and explain that it would be emotionally distressing for her mother to see them having to escort her out . When all explanations are exhausted, the security guards have no choice but to remove her in the least physical way possible. Communication is the key. However, in such a situation whether hypothetical or not, not one of us have the right to think we are more important than others and should be entitled to special treatment. So clearly , in that sense, the visitor is wrong. Just a thought. ☺

 

[911]

Security was right to remove her.

 

[RadishRose]

Nurse was right.
Security was right.
Daughter was wrong. (perhaps due to emotional stress)

 

[raybar]

It would have been reasonable for the daughter to take a few minutes to say goodbye to her mother, especially if the nurse hadn't given a "closing soon" warning prior to 6 o'clock. But, "I'll leave when I'm ready" in response to a third request to leave (the first at 6, second at 6:15, and third 6:45) is just asking to be escorted off the premises
.

The nurse was correct in calling security. Should have called sooned, I'd say. And security was correct in "escorting" her to the door. But, if it really went as described, "without a word, grab the daughter by her upper arms, pull her from the chair, drag her down the corridor by her arms and shove her out of the hospital front door" seems a bit rough under the circumstances. Or maybe that's just the woman's version, and security was actually a lot less physical with her.

I don't suppose there's any security footage available?

 

[Knight]

Seriously?
Woman was wrong the rest were right.
Since the mother had been diagnosed with dementia & probably wouldn't remember the visit or future visits, plus will be moved I wouldn't blame the facility if they banned her entry into the facility.

 

[debodun]

This actually happened, but it was in 1995. I am relating what I was told, but I did witness the arm bruises. I could actually see the guard's fingerprints where they grabbed her. I just happened to think of this event and was wondering about it.

 

[Knight]

This actually happened, but it was in 1995. I am relating what I was told, but I did witness the arm bruises. I could actually see the guard's fingerprints where they grabbed her. I just happened to think of this event and was wondering about it.

you didn't offer an opinion.

 

[debodun]

I am too close to it to be impartial.

 

[Knight]

Consider

I am too close to it to be impartial.

This took place 25 years ago, yet the detail is so clear. Then you offer no opinion ? A suspicious person could think the scenario was real because it was you.

 

[debodun]

Not me, but someone I was close to. Don't you ever remember things that happened long ago?

 

[gennie]

The mother was in " the mental health ward of a small hospital. "

I would think that places such as this must have strict rules for visitors and must demand compliance. Otherwise, there would be chaos. She left them no choice.

Women in their 60s often bruise easily. What would you have had them do?

 

[Lewkat]

I don't think you are looking for an opinion here, but an argument. Different things. Once this case was adjudicated, end of discussion. That is, if it wound up in a court of law.

 

[Knight]

The mother was in " the mental health ward of a small hospital. "

I would think that places such as this must have strict rules for visitors and must demand compliance. Otherwise, there would be chaos. She left them no choice.

Women in their 60s often bruise easily. What would you have had them do?

I asked Deb that & she would't express her opinion.

 

[debodun]

Which I have the right to do.

 

[Knight]

I don't think you are looking for an opinion here, but an argument. Different things. Once this case was adjudicated, end of discussion. That is, if it wound up in a court of law.

This was 25 years ago & Deb seemed to indicate that it didn't go to court because the lawyer wouldn't take the case. Smart lawyer!

 

[Knight]

Which I have the right to do.

Absolutely right it's your right not to reply to what you want others to express an opinion on. Given the 3 choices that reflect badly on the nurse, & staff & 1 choice that is the most reasonable It's pretty obvious why you decline to offer an opinion.

 

[debodun]

 

[Lewkat]

Why even open the subject if you are not going to participate? I personally think with the daughter's attitude toward the nurse, she must have given security a bit to trouble, so they physically removed her. This is a no brainer as hospitals have designated visiting hours. They are far more relaxed than when I was active in nursing. People have no idea what takes place within a hospital routine. Medications must be given on time, procedures done at special times, I.V.s to be checked and changed, etc. On and on it goes. Visitors are usually compliant with hospital rules, but we do see some belligerent ones and that's when security steps in. I don't enjoy engaging in a shouting match with family or friends who visit, but it's happened.