The Truth, as a basis of reality

[gruntlabor]

Say a scholarly article is written. It's scanned and reported on by a bored young journalist thinking mostly of her paycheck and Saturday night. Her report contains flawed information and serious misconceptions. And what we take away may be even more error ridden. It seems hopeless, but we can at least go to the source or try to verify our information.

 

[Magna-Carta]

Say a scholarly article is written. It's scanned and reported on by a bored young journalist thinking mostly of her paycheck and Saturday night. Her report contains flawed information and serious misconceptions. And what we take away may be even more error ridden. It seems hopeless, but we can at least go to the source or try to verify our information.

I think I see what you are saying, and I'm viewing it as hypothetical for the purpose of this. I can't help thinking though that personally I would also be considered the publisher of the Scholarly Article, and the organisation it came from, and not just the writer. The respectability of the organisation.

I would be thinking of peer reviews regarding Scholarly Articles before being published, regardless of whether the writer was thinking of Saturday night or not.

Then we have social media, who these days often seem to dismiss the truth, based on who said what first. It seems these days through social media, most base their truth on who said what FIRST.

As far as News Media is concerned, it seems there is more and more pressure, in part based on competition, to get the story out first, before fully researched. And then something else to consider. Some News organizations are well aware of what makes a good story. Sometimes the truth doesn't make a good story.

I've seen some from a news organisation look for a story that wasn't there, or rather wasn't there any longer, because of long established improvements, containments, countermeasures Only to be being told that regardless of what has improved, they are 'going with their' story. A damaging and negative story.

You mention going to the source. I'm not always convinced it's possible to go to the source. There may even be occasions where there was never any source

 

[Magna-Carta]

Illnesses. Difficulties. Journeys. I thought we were talking about truth. There is no honorable excuse for a lie. Just be silent. If you lie, face it, you're a liar. You're a low-down, double-dog liar, no offense

No offense taken.

@gruntlabor I think about how I might apply the part I've highlighted from your post to a person I was in a relationship with -- someone I loved. Someone whose web of lies became so complex the lies then seemed so believable. In part due to how that person also deceived others as part of the same complex lies.

Due to that, then never being able to verify the truth, as new lies came in to back up old lies. She and her lies being supported by other people who she had lied to too.

Do you see where my context comes from in a previous post of mine?

It became apparent to me that this person was ill. I suppose I could have described that person with the words in bold. I didn't, instead, I got her help. Help after she wandered off. After a letter (a long note) from her to me saying she has a bottle of pills and a small bottle of water. I was able to prevent her from killing herself, in part thanks to police involvement. I don't think the words in bold would have helped here.

That was in the 1990's when I was a little nieve, but it seemed that so were many people around me and around her. She is alive, and a long hard process, with help, getting better from her illness.

Do you see where my words come from in a previous post?

 

[PeppermintPatty]

The truth is subject to individual perception.

 

[gruntlabor]

No offense taken.

@gruntlabor I think about how I might apply the part I've highlighted from your post to a person I was in a relationship with -- someone I loved. Someone whose web of lies became so complex the lies then seemed so believable. In part due to how that person also deceived others as part of the same complex lies.

Due to that, then never being able to verify the truth, as new lies came in to back up old lies. She and her lies being supported by other people who she had lied to too.

Do you see where my context comes from in a previous post of mine?

It became apparent to me that this person was ill. I suppose I could have described that person with the words in bold. I didn't, instead, I got her help. Help after she wandered off. After a letter (a long note) from her to me saying she has a bottle of pills and a small bottle of water. I was able to prevent her from killing herself, in part thanks to police involvement. I don't think the words in bold would have helped here.

That was in the 1990's when I was a little nieve, but it seemed that so were many people around me and around her. She is alive, and a long hard process, with help, getting better from her illness.

Do you see where my words come from in a previous post?

Yes, I do see, thank you. But she was not a liar. A liar tells a deliberate untruth. She was emotionally ill, maybe even mentally ill. She told the truth as she saw it in her own twisted way, bless her. I am glad she is better now.

 

[PeppermintPatty]

There is no honorable excuse for a lie.

I disagree completely.
If there was a couple of guys you didn’t know, drive up your driveway as you are pulling weeds and they ask if the man of the house is home.

I will definitely lie and say yes he is but he’s busy right now, may I take a message.

Lying to protect yourself or a family member from possible harm is an honourable lie in my books. Sometimes telling the truth is not only dangerous but senseless.

 

[Magna-Carta]

Yes, I do see, thank you. But she was not a liar. A liar tells a deliberate untruth. She was emotionally ill, maybe even mentally ill. She told the truth as she saw it in her own twisted way, bless her. I am glad she is better now.

I can see your point, to some degree. And I'm sympathetic to people with certain illnesses. I was in a significant relationship with this person. There are some here who would call her a liar. In some of my posts here, I've been trying to separate the lies, from the liar, from the illness, from the person. There are many who will never see it that way.

In a way though, lies are lies. Some have to be taken into context, don't you think? Regardless of financially damaging they are, and damaging in others ways too.

 

[gruntlabor]

I disagree completely.
If there was a couple of guys you didn’t know, drive up your driveway as you are pulling weeds and they ask if the man of the house is home.

I will definitely lie and say yes he is but he’s busy right now, may I take a message.

Lying to protect yourself or a family member from possible harm is an honourable lie in my books. Sometimes telling the truth is not only dangerous but senseless.

I am not obligated to answer any question put to me by anyone, especially by any moron off the street (even in court they can't make me take the oath). I'd order the trespassers off the property, and work from there. It wouldn't even occur to me to answer their stupid question.

 

[PeppermintPatty]

I am not obligated to answer any question put to me by anyone, especially by any moron off the street (even in court they can't make me take the oath). I'd order the trespassers off the property, and work from there. It wouldn't even occur to me to answer their stupid question.

Of course you’re not obligated to answer to anyone. Sometimes it’s difficult knowing legit businesses from scammers. Some of them go all out with proper uniforms with matching decals on their vehicle. My main point being that I definitely would lie to protect my loved ones.

 

[gruntlabor]

I can see your point, to some degree. And I'm sympathetic to people with certain illnesses. I was in a significant relationship with this person. There are some here who would call her a liar. In some of my posts here, I've been trying to separate the lies, from the liar, from the illness, from the person. There are many who will never see it that way.

In a way though, lies are lies. Some have to be taken into context, don't you think? Regardless of financially damaging they are, and damaging in others ways too.

I don't think you need to do any separating. Even if she knew she was lying, she was not responsible for herself. Sometimes we way overthink things. I think your context question is over my head, but cheater's (and liars) never prosper.

 

[gruntlabor]

Of course you’re not obligated to answer to anyone. Sometimes it’s difficult knowing legit businesses from scammers. Some of them go all out with proper uniforms with matching decals on their vehicle. My main point being that I definitely would lie to protect my loved ones.

I have an edge. In my state it's illegal to sell door to door with only three exceptions: charitable, religious, and political organizations.

 

[PeppermintPatty]

I have an edge. In my state it's illegal to sell door to door with only three exceptions: charitable, religious, and political organizations.

Unfortunately criminals don’t care about the law.

 

[ohioboy]

I have an edge. In my state it's illegal to sell door to door with only three exceptions: charitable, religious, and political organizations.

What State would that be?

 

[ohioboy]

I disagree completely.
If there was a couple of guys you didn’t know, drive up your driveway as you are pulling weeds and they ask if the man of the house is home.

I will definitely lie and say yes he is but he’s busy right now, may I take a message.

Lying to protect yourself or a family member from possible harm is an honourable lie in my books. Sometimes telling the truth is not only dangerous but senseless.

Spot on! If an intruder breaks in and gets me then asks if anyone else is in the house and my children are, you can damn well bet I will tell him no one else. That, as in your example, is a survival mode.

 

[gruntlabor]

What State would that be?

Alaska

 

[ohioboy]

Alaska

Can you cite the State law or link it? As you describe would seem to run afoul of the 1st AM.

 

[gruntlabor]

Unfortunately criminals don’t care about the law.
No, I meant that no-one is likely to be driving up and asking 'is the man of the house is home'. I can make the assumption that they're up to no good.

 

[PeppermintPatty]

I meant that no-one is likely to be driving up and asking 'is the man of the house is home'. I can make the assumption that they're up to no good.

I thought the same. These days I wouldn’t make that assumption.

 

[gruntlabor]

Can you cite the State law or link it? As you describe would seem to run afoul of the 1st AM.

Alaska Statutes
https://www.akleg.gov/basis/statutes.asp
===================

AS 45.02.350 Sale by door-to-door solicitation.

(a) A contract for the purchase of goods or services in the amount of $10 or more from a person soliciting a door-to-door sale shall require, as a condition of taking effect, that the purchaser may revoke the offer to buy within five business ...
============================

That's all I could find but looks like you're right. It's been so many years that I've believed that, that I don't even remember how I came to learn it. Apparently either the law has been changed, or it never existed. Apologies, everyone.

 

[ohioboy]

Alaska Statutes
https://www.akleg.gov/basis/statutes.asp
===================

AS 45.02.350 Sale by door-to-door solicitation.

(a) A contract for the purchase of goods or services in the amount of $10 or more from a person soliciting a door-to-door sale shall require, as a condition of taking effect, that the purchaser may revoke the offer to buy within five business ...
============================

That's all I could find but looks like you're right. It's been so many years that I've believed that, that I don't even remember how I came to learn it. Apparently either the law has been changed, or it never existed. Apologies, everyone.

No problem my friend. Similar to conditions under the Uniform Commercial Code's door to door contract rescission clause.

 

[Nathan]

Some truths and lies can be so interwoven, in that then the truth can't be seen from the lies. At times there is no gap between the two. Sometimes they might seem to be the same due to their interwoven closeness.

Many people are affected, due to their choice of news media.