Religion

Lon

Well-known Member
Much, if not all of the current world problems seem to revolve around religion and it's individual beliefs. . The problem is RELIGION itself, and those that refuse to face real world reality and instead wish to believe in supernatural unrealistic myth and superstition and totally ignore logic. Current domestic and political problems in the U.S. have come about because of religious thinking.
 

I agree that religion is behind many arguments and wars, and religious people usually have very little tolerance of other people's beliefs (or non-beliefs).
 
Although I'm not normally a fan of organized religion I would have to say that the blame for MOST domestic and international problems comes not from religion but from the greed and avarice and materialism of humans.

Money and power - those are the catalysts.

Religion is just the mask, the disguise that is used to justify their actions.
 

And it's STILL a big problem. Think Islam against all others....the infidels.

Imagine, a religion that advocates killing anybody who isn't a Muslim.

This is why I'm not a religious person. I've lived a good, happy, satisfied life without it.
 
Falcon, Christians hold the honors for more killing than any other religion...beginning with the Crusades. And still, to this day, people in the military are justified in killing because they 'serve God and Country'...
All of our 'big wars' have been fought in the name of religion, used as an excuse. Well, they need some 'justification' or otherwise they probably couldn't go through with all the slaughtering. That includes Christian countries fighting each other. I agree about money and power... but many have used religion as a cover.
 
And it's STILL a big problem. Think Islam against all others....the infidels.

Imagine, a religion that advocates killing anybody who isn't a Muslim.

This is why I'm not a religious person. I've lived a good, happy, satisfied life without it.

Not all Muslims advocate killing non Muslims by any means, so please don't tar them all with the extremist brush. There are plenty of Christian nutters out their too, especially the, 'you must be 'saved' or go to hell' crazy loons!:mad:
 
Falcon, Christians hold the honors for more killing than any other religion...beginning with the Crusades. And still, to this day, people in the military are justified in killing because they 'serve God and Country'...
All of our 'big wars' have been fought in the name of religion, used as an excuse. Well, they need some 'justification' or otherwise they probably couldn't go through with all the slaughtering. That includes Christian countries fighting each other. I agree about money and power... but many have used religion as a cover.
You say that 'all of our big wars have been fought in the name of religion'. How so?.
 
I am a Catholic Christian. So far, I haven't tried to kill anyone, yet. :) I don't try to recruit people to my religion, it's private to me, and have always respected everyone's right to their religion or not.

I do have a big problem with Sharia law....involving the killing of those that don't believe in it, or go against their rules. I remember a muslim couple some time ago, that started a television station to show everyone how peaceful muslims are in their lives. Not too long after.....the wife wanted a divorce and he cut her head off...and he is in prison. I would imagine Sharia Law was involved.
 
Could'nt agree with the original post more...........all our troubles stem from tribal prejudices , call it religion or what you will, just old wives tales embleished over the years by sad old men.
 
Much, if not all of the current world problems seem to revolve around religion and it's individual beliefs. . The problem is RELIGION itself, and those that refuse to face real world reality and instead wish to believe in supernatural unrealistic myth and superstition and totally ignore logic. Current domestic and political problems in the U.S. have come about because of religious thinking.

Not to be disrespectful, Lon, but isn't it possible you could be wrong, and those who believe and are Christians can be respectable people and not idiots? Do you have positive proof there is no God?
 
I agree with Misty, why must the world be tolerant of every one's beliefs except Christians? Tolerance is not a one way street.
 
Gee, not one word about that guy in his kingdom up there and his not to bright son.

Dont those 2 two share all the religious mess on this planet too?
 
Not to be disrespectful, Lon, but isn't it possible you could be wrong, and those who believe and are Christians can be respectable people and not idiots? Do you have positive proof there is no God?

You are not being disrespectful, you are simply stating your opinion and there is nothing wrong with that. Secondly, of course Christians can be respectful people and not idiots, and many can and are deceitful, mean, arrogant, violent,hateful. Now you will probably say that well, they are not really Christians if they act that way. Finally, I just plain don't believe and don't have to prove or disprove anything because I am not trying to convert you or any one else to my way of thinking
 
Lon, can you unpack this sentence for me a little more?

Current domestic and political problems in the U.S. have come about because of religious thinking.

As an Australian (and a Christian to boot), I've always noticed that the level of religiosity in your country is a lot more evident than it is over here but how does that translate into "domestic and political problems"?

By the way, I'm not trying to convert you and I know that your OP was not an attempt to convert me, so can were actually talk about issues as sensible equals?
 
Lon, can you unpack this sentence for me a little more?



As an Australian (and a Christian to boot), I've always noticed that the level of religiosity in your country is a lot more evident than it is over here but how does that translate into "domestic and political problems"?

By the way, I'm not trying to convert you and I know that your OP was not an attempt to convert me, so can were actually talk about issues as sensible equals?


The right wing in the U.S. is for the most part Fundamentalist Christian. It's quite obvious as you watch TV news broadcasts. Their views on everything from abortion to Public Education to the Immigration problems have fundamentalist over tones and of course clash dramatically with the left and more liberal and non religious ideology.
Both groups in my view are full of crap. And then you have people like me who are pretty libertarian, and we're full of crap too.
 
:lol: It sure is a crappy world, isn't it?

I never argue with fundamentalists of any stripe because it is a pointless exercise but while they are a noisy bunch, they are in no means the majority.

Since writing this post I've been looking at some quotes on this subject.
I think you'll like this one from a very famous American

“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
Thomas Jefferson

Perhaps you might like to comment in the light of the recent decision to allow some employers to exclude certain contraceptive measures from the health care plans of their employees on the grounds of the religious beliefs of the employer.
 
Since this topic is titled Religion I hope this is not taking us too far off topic

“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.”
Stephen Colbert

It's amazing how insightful comedians can be on serious topics.

One doesn't need to believe in the divinity of Jesus of Nazarus to take his teachings seriously but if one does take them seriously, they call for change - change of heart and change in one's actions. There are a lot of people who think they are acting in his name but who do not allow any change to their thinking or lifestyle. Then there are others who behave as if they were disciples of Christ who have never read the Christian bible. In the end, the tree is known by its fruit, not by some label nailed to its trunk.
 
Seriously, Lon, is that your guru? George Carlin?

I can put you on to some far more intelligent atheists than that.
Bertrand Russell - “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence”

Albert Einstein - “I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.”

Epicurus -“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Carl Sagan - “In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.”

Unless you can do better than your last clip, I think I can argue the atheist position better than you can and like Kaya I will depart the field too. As I said earlier, I find fundamentalists very hard to engage in a real discussion.
 
All the various religious groups are ok, each to their own, the problems are caused by some of the idiots who are in them, and I can't see it ever changing
 
Seriously, Lon, is that your guru? George Carlin?

I can put you on to some far more intelligent atheists than that.
Bertrand Russell - “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence”

Albert Einstein - “I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.”

Epicurus -“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Carl Sagan - “In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.”

Unless you can do better than your last clip, I think I can argue the atheist position better than you can and like Kaya I will depart the field too. As I said earlier, I find fundamentalists very hard to engage in a real discussion.

No nice lady Dame, he is not my Guru, just my favorite comedian who has done many stand up bits on many subjects. Check out You Tube for George Carlin. As for atheists, how about Dawkins?
 
Although I'm not normally a fan of organized religion I would have to say that the blame for MOST domestic and international problems comes not from religion but from the greed and avarice and materialism of humans.

Money and power - those are the catalysts.

Religion is just the mask, the disguise that is used to justify their actions.

I couldn't have said it better. Phil for President! :D
 
No nice lady Dame, he is not my Guru, just my favorite comedian who has done many stand up bits on many subjects. Check out You Tube for George Carlin. As for atheists, how about Dawkins?

Precisely, Lon, George Carlin is a comedian of the modern group who go out of their way to be as offensive as possible through the use of profanities and by attacking groups of people who are not likely to be present in his audience. People who like him find him funny and witty but he is still a comedian, not a profound scholar nor a respected philosopher. I found references to George Carlin on the site where I found the quotes that I posted earlier. He was by no means the best among them.

Dawkins is different. He has spent years refining his secular philosophy and like him, I too am opposed to the kind of Christian fundamentalism that is anti science and anti common sense. Unlike him, I do not throw out the baby with the bath water. I do not consider it to be child abuse to teach children the basics of their parents' faith. I am opposed to indoctrination whether it is in the form of religious dogma or political dogma. Teaching involves raising questions. Indoctrination suppresses them. Dawkins doesn't allow for that difference.

If you are interested in the religion quotes, there are over 4000 here: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/religion

They represent a variety of positions and they range from historical to contemporary.
 


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