A white 75 year old white protestor attacked by the police knocked down, caught on video.

[StarSong]

Here's the video - it's only 40 seconds but it sure shows a willful disregard for public safety on the part of these officers.
https://www.boston.com/news/national-news-2/2020/06/05/buffalo-protest-video

 

[Aneeda72]

Aneeda. The "orange guy"-'The orange guy, as everyone knows, lives in the WHITE HOUSE. " He does not live in the White House. It is a reference to the fact that black convicts wear orange prison suits. Since you misinterpreted that reference, maybe, you missed that all I was doing was repeating the things people have voiced in this forum.

Maybe I did miss what you were doing. Do just black convicts wear orange prison suits or do white convicts wear orange prison suits as well? If everyone wears the same prison suits, how do the guards tell the difference between the races? It’s so confusing.

Maybe you missed what I was doing?

 

[Aneeda72]

MSNBC keeps replaying 18 minutes of the video. What would really cook their goose is if it was just some guy from out of town just asking for directions. "Excuse me. What street am I on?" WHAM!!! Police tried to report the man lost his balance, tripped and fell. Yep, tripped and fell after flying backward from a body blow. Geez.

Yup. I agree.

 

[Sunny]

Aneeda. The "orange guy"-'The orange guy, as everyone knows, lives in the WHITE HOUSE. " He does not live in the White House. It is a reference to the fact that black convicts wear orange prison suits. Since you misinterpreted that reference, maybe, you missed that all I was doing was repeating the things people have voiced in this forum.

She misses a lot, fuzzybuddy. Remember when I the cop in the Floyd case said he was only following orders, and I said he reminded me of an old war movie about the Nazis? It triggered off a whole nonsensical diatribe about how offended she was because some of her relatives were Jewish (though what that had to do with anything beats me) and then boasted about putting me on "ignore" because I said that. Apparently you can't call a Nazi a Nazi, even when he is one.

So, consider the source.

 

[Sunny]

StarSong, it does show a willful disregard for public safety, and probably blatent stupidity.The cop was acting like a thug. But I don't think he intended for the older man to fall, he was just shoving him, like a bully. And I very much doubt that he wanted to kill him. The cops seemed horrified, and I heard one of them say, "Call an ambulance!" No one was kneeling on the old man's throat until he died.

One is an ugly incident involving a cop who should lose his job. The other is murder.

 

[C'est Moi]

She misses a lot, fuzzybuddy. Remember when I the cop in the Floyd case said he was only following orders, and I said he reminded me of an old war movie about the Nazis? It triggered off a whole nonsensical diatribe about how offended she was because some of her relatives were Jewish (though what that had to do with anything beats me) and then boasted about putting me on "ignore" because I said that. Apparently you can't call a Nazi a Nazi, even when he is one.

So, consider the source.

That you would bring Nazis into a conversation is beyond disgusting.

 

[Sunny]

Why, C'est Moi? Nazi Germany happened. A cop who brutally murders a man in this way and then says he was only following orders is very much acting like a Nazi. We do have a Nazi party in this country; it's not so far-fetched.

Have you ever studied what the Nazis did in WW2? Those who do not know history are condemned to repeat it.

 

[asp3]

Would it have been fine if Sunny had said that during the Nuremberg trials "just following orders" was often given as the reason for committing the crimes the defendants were being tried for?

 

[moviequeen1]

This is the update about the incident that happened in my hometown last night
Martin Guigno,the 75 yr old activist ,is at local hosptial,Erie County Medical Center.He had serious head injuries but is awake& alert today according to local news stations
The 2 cops involved were suspended,entire 57 officers on the Buffalo Emergency Response Team have resigned to support their fellow officers.They haven't quit their police jobs just the team.Erie County exec,Mark Polencarz was disappointed to hear the news

 

[C'est Moi]

Would it have been fine if Sunny had said that during the Nuremberg trials "just following orders" was often given as the reason for committing the crimes the defendants were being tried for?

No, it would not.

It used to be that any mention of NAZI on this board was immediately deleted. Frankly, I'm disappointed that it was allowed to remain.

 

[C'est Moi]

Why, C'est Moi? Nazi Germany happened. A cop who brutally murders a man in this way and then says he was only following orders is very much acting like a Nazi. We do have a Nazi party in this country; it's not so far-fetched.

Have you ever studied what the Nazis did in WW2? Those who do not know history are condemned to repeat it.

Ask your Jewish friends if you have any. Of course I'm familiar with what the Nazis did in WWII; that's my damn point. I'm done with this. "When someone shows you who they are, believe them."

 

[Aneeda72]

Would it have been fine if Sunny had said that during the Nuremberg trials "just following orders" was often given as the reason for committing the crimes the defendants were being tried for?

@asp3 When I asked that Sunny not bring Nazi into the conversation any more on another thread, she refused calling me a few things that were not nice. Poor me. I am just too sensitive. I just wouldn’t go there.

 

[asp3]

No, it would not.

It used to be that any mention of NAZI on this board was immediately deleted. Frankly, I'm disappointed that it was allowed to remain.

Do you have any suggestions for an "acceptable" way of getting the point across that "just following orders" is not a valid defense and that it has been used in the past to justify horrible acts?

 

[peramangkelder]

Maybe all of us me included should take a deep breath and remember the Sixth Commandment
I was taught the Ten Commandments in Sunday School as were probably most of us here on the Forum
6. 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'
I guess I'm going to get in trouble for that one....so be it I have broad shoulders

 

[Aneeda72]

Maybe all of us me included should take a deep breath and remember the Sixth Commandment
I was taught the Ten Commandments in Sunday School as were probably most of us here on the Forum
6. 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'
I guess I'm going to get in trouble for that one....so be it I have broad shoulders

Not everyone is Christian, so not everyone knows the ten commandments.

 

[C'est Moi]

Do you have any suggestions for an "acceptable" way of getting the point across that "just following orders" is not a valid defense and that it has been used in the past to justify horrible acts?

I honestly have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I never said ANYTHING about "just following orders" or any of the other drivel you are spouting. I object to bringing NAZIS into this conversation. The End.

 

[Sunny]

C'est Moi, you seem to think for some reason that calling a Nazi a Nazi is verboten on this forum. Why, in heaven's name? Of course the guy was acting like a classic Nazi right out of WW2. As asp3 said, that "excuse" is right out of the Nuremburg trials.

About "ask your Jewish friends, if you have any..." that is really funny! Read my answer to Aneeda, C'est. I am 100% Jewish myself. (Not religious, but totally Jewish. There is such a thing as secular Judaism.) I lost relatives in the Holocaust, and I have visited Dachau. I lived in Germany for a year. And I can recognize the Nazi mentality, no matter which country that evil stuff pops up in. I know more about this tragic subject than you will ever know, sweetie. Better let it go before you embarrass yourself even further.

 

[Lethe200]

Speaking as a person of color (PoC): I think when the discussion is about excessive use of force, even though it happens more often to PoC, we have to acknowledge its wrongness no matter who is the unlucky victim.

We all bleed the same color.

From the Washington Post, excerpted from an article today:
" Thursday (June 4, 2020) marked the second time since last month that a viral video led to an internal affairs investigation of a Buffalo police officer. On May 10, an officer was filmed repeatedly punching a black man in the face during a traffic stop arrest, leading the Erie County District Attorney’s Office to open an investigation into the officer.

Nationwide, video footage has played a key role in exposing police abuses during the protests that ignited over Floyd’s death after a Minneapolis officer was captured pressing his knee into Floyd’s neck.

In Philadelphia on Wednesday, a Temple University student was released from jail on charges of assaulting a police officer during a protest after video emerged showing that a police officer was the one beating him in the head with a baton, while another used his knee to press the student’s face onto the pavement, the Philadelphia Inquirer reported.

A Salt Lake City police officer in riot gear was captured on video last week using his shield to knock down a man who was shuffling slowly with a cane, after ordering him to clear the sidewalk outside of a public library. He fell to the ground face-first. The police chief called the incident “inappropriate” and said it is under investigation, the Salt Lake Tribune reported.

In Fort Lauderdale, Fla., last Sunday, an officer was suspended after shoving a black woman who was kneeling on the concrete behind him with her hands up. That incident inflamed an otherwise largely peaceful protest, as outraged demonstrators threw water bottles, the Miami Herald reported. Police soon responded with tear gas and rubber bullets. One officer ended up striking a woman in the face with a rubber bullet, cracking her skull and leaving her bloodied and bruised about the face, the Herald reported. "

 

[C'est Moi]

C'est Moi, you seem to think for some reason that calling a Nazi a Nazi is verboten on this forum. Why, in heaven's name? Of course the guy was acting like a classic Nazi right out of WW2. As asp3 said, that "excuse" is right out of the Nuremburg trials.

About "ask your Jewish friends, if you have any..." that is really funny! Read my answer to Aneeda, C'est. I am 100% Jewish myself. (Not religious, but totally Jewish. There is such a thing as secular Judaism.) I lost relatives in the Holocaust, and I have visited Dachau. I lived in Germany for a year. And I can recognize the Nazi mentality, no matter which country that evil stuff pops up in. I know more about this tragic subject than you will ever know, sweetie. Better let it go before you embarrass yourself even further.

I am not embarrassed in the least, "sweetie." (oh, the irony.) Bye now.

 

[win231]

There, finally the correct word: Some.

This is the update about the incident that happened in my hometown last night
Martin Guigno,the 75 yr old activist ,is at local hosptial,Erie County Medical Center.He had serious head injuries but is awake& alert today according to local news stations
The 2 cops involved were suspended,entire 57 officers on the Buffalo Emergency Response Team have resigned to support their fellow officers.They haven't quit their police jobs just the team.Erie County exec,Mark Polencarz was disappointed to hear the news

Exactly - "Brother" officers support each other, regardless of any abuse of power or criminal acts. That's what's wrong with police departments.

 

[StarSong]

StarSong, it does show a willful disregard for public safety, and probably blatent stupidity.The cop was acting like a thug. But I don't think he intended for the older man to fall, he was just shoving him, like a bully. And I very much doubt that he wanted to kill him. The cops seemed horrified, and I heard one of them say, "Call an ambulance!" No one was kneeling on the old man's throat until he died.

One is an ugly incident involving a cop who should lose his job. The other is murder.

I completely agree that this wasn't intentional. What made it egregious was that none of the police stopped, stooped down to see if the man needed help, nor to instantly call 911.

 

[asp3]

She misses a lot, fuzzybuddy. Remember when I the cop in the Floyd case said he was only following orders, and I said he reminded me of an old war movie about the Nazis? It triggered off a whole nonsensical diatribe about how offended she was because some of her relatives were Jewish (though what that had to do with anything beats me) and then boasted about putting me on "ignore" because I said that. Apparently you can't call a Nazi a Nazi, even when he is one.

So, consider the source.

Do you have any suggestions for an "acceptable" way of getting the point across that "just following orders" is not a valid defense and that it has been used in the past to justify horrible acts?

I honestly have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I never said ANYTHING about "just following orders" or any of the other drivel you are spouting. I object to bringing NAZIS into this conversation. The End.

I'm sorry my messages were not clear. I understand that you do not want any mention of nazis, however if we look back in history as Sunny was pointing out what I got from that was her saying that the person saying they were just following orders was like people in the trials at Nuremberg where members of the German army were tired for war crimes giving that as their excuse.

What I was trying to get at is did you have any suggestions how someone could bring that comparison up after you said that my Nuremberg example wasn't an acceptable way to make the comparison.

I'm afraid I'm not adept at the multi quote functionality in this forum so I apologize for not supplying all relevant quotes in my response.

 

[Butterfly]

C'est Moi, you seem to think for some reason that calling a Nazi a Nazi is verboten on this forum. Why, in heaven's name? Of course the guy was acting like a classic Nazi right out of WW2. As asp3 said, that "excuse" is right out of the Nuremburg trials.

About "ask your Jewish friends, if you have any..." that is really funny! Read my answer to Aneeda, C'est. I am 100% Jewish myself. (Not religious, but totally Jewish. There is such a thing as secular Judaism.) I lost relatives in the Holocaust, and I have visited Dachau. I lived in Germany for a year. And I can recognize the Nazi mentality, no matter which country that evil stuff pops up in. I know more about this tragic subject than you will ever know, sweetie. Better let it go before you embarrass yourself even further.

Right, Sunny, it's even called the "Nuremberg defense" in common parlance.

A short explanation of the Nuremberg defense" for those who are interested. (from theintercept.com, posted in March of 2015)

"During the Nuremberg Trials after World War II, several Nazis, including top German generals Alfred Jodl and Wilhelm Keitel, claimed they were not guilty of the tribunal’s charges because they had been acting at the directive of their superiors.

Ever since, this justification has been popularly known as the “Nuremberg defense,” in which the accused states they were “only following orders.”

The Nuremberg judges rejected the Nuremberg defense, and both Jodl and Keitel were hanged. The United Nations International Law Commission later codified the underlying principle from Nuremberg as “the fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.”

It is my understanding that many of the Nazi judges, tried separately from the original defendants, as well as many defendants tried for what happened in the concentration camps, tried using the same defense and it didn't fly for them, either.

History is history, whether some of us like it not.

 

[win231]

More information has been coming out today. Police who arrested protesters have been trying to "teach people a lesson about protesting & demonstrating" by dropping them off in the street in the middle of the night after processing them, not allowing them to use a restroom for several hours, playing loud music & "accidentally" cutting them while cutting off their zip ties.

Yeah.....way to get the respect cops keep asking for.

 

[moviequeen1]

I find it annoying that some posters have gone off the original topic of this thread.
I had a hard time finding one except mine