Right to Die, or Duty to Die?

QuickSilver said:
As part of your response you posted a New York Time article that explained why many do not pay the etire tax.

“Some U.S. multinational corporations like to complain about the U.S. 35 percent statutory tax rate, but what they don’t like to admit is that hardly any of them pay anything close to it,” Mr. Levin said in a statement. “The big gap between the U.S. statutory tax rate and what large, profitable U.S. corporations actually pay is due in large part to the unjustified loopholes and gimmicks that riddle our tax code.”

So rather than do all the cheating etc. many have decided to go to other more rationally taxed countries. And how about this Burger King deal? And I don't believe Canada fits any of your claims at all. And without following all the companies that have moved and to where, I doubt lots of your claims to be valid.

http://fortune.com/2014/08/28/is-burger-kings-move-to-canada-a-raw-deal-for-u-s-taxpayers/

Is Burger King’s move to Canada a raw deal for U.S. taxpayers?

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But they aren't cheating Debby.... Those loopholes are perfectly legal. They are moving in order to pay NO US taxes.. As for the Canada Burger King deal? Yes.. it's called tax inversion.. They are essentially a Canadian company now.. so they will not pay US tax..[/QUOTE]

Very true, but why doesn't the government agree to rewrite the taxes as Congress had been asking for several years now, even back into Bush's years. Means we have some very dense folks willing to play with the taxes on personal desires but won't allow for a new set of rules to lock them all into a standard way and not allow simple maneuvering to avoid taxing a friend while taxing the life out of others with this selective taxing system. And not all companies have left yet, just watch if the government does not straighten out its taxes soon.
 

QuickSilver said:
That is absolute hogwash... I don't care how high the Corporate tax rate is... it doesn't matter... because Corporations don't pay that.. NOBODY pays that rate.. They are moving overseas to take advantage of cheap labor with no labor laws.
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We are hosting the G20 at the moment and the Treasurers' group is looking at ways to make companies pay appropriate taxes in the countries where they raise the profits. They are talking about international co-operation at government level to stop global enterprises structuring their businesses in such a way as to avoid paying their fair share of taxes and contributing to societies as they are morally obliged to do. It will be something that they will be legally obliged to do in the future, with a bit of luck.
 
That is good news Dame Warrigal. I did not think those member's really had any power at all. Just some strong adviser's to their governments likely. It would surely be likely to have the US finally get there tax laws cleaned up. Rather high main tax but then they have all those strange ways to avoid paying taxes if the government will allow it. One of the US's biggest companies leader is a friend of Obama and Obama set him up as a adviser or some such position. The companies he leads pay no taxes. This was all in the news a few years back but I can not remember the company or name of person. It is pretty sad how our government has been running. That some companies don't have to pay taxes and others do is not fair at all. It appears that if you run a company and don't want to pay the heavy taxes, you have to kiss up to a favorit Congressman or the President to get a lower rate or none. Remember I said previously that this situation existed even during the Bush times. Not sure who is actually controlling all this shady stuff.

So those on the no or low tax schedules are happy and the others that are not getting good favors or none are willing to move to where the taxes are simpler and better enforced. I hope you are right and this meeting will lead to better taxes and enforced taxes.
 

QuickSilver said:
That is absolute hogwash... I don't care how high the Corporate tax rate is... it doesn't matter... because Corporations don't pay that.. NOBODY pays that rate.. They are moving overseas to take advantage of cheap labor with no labor laws. Do you want America to go back to the days when we didn't have labor laws? How about child labor? How about working 7 days a week... 12 hrs a day? How about no sick time? Seriously? You think that's how America should be? They also like that foreign countries allow them to polute the air and water as they please.. Do you WANT filthy air and water for YOUR family?




http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/02/b...id-a-fraction-of-corporate-tax-rate.html?_r=0
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But that article is by Forbes, a magazine that depends on it's credibility and relative accuracy and wouldn't you would think that they'd check their numbers? And I think I recently heard a discussion on Canadian TV where they were talking about how they could understand why Burger King would leave a 39% tax rate behind and come to Canada's 15% corporate tax environment with our accompanying loopholes and such. Wouldn't that be looking pretty good as a reason to make the move if your focus is the bottom line? Mind you, disclaimer here, the mere mention of taxes and my eyes glaze over. Very complicated issue.

I just had to recheck the title of this thread as I'd forgotten what we were talking about. Isn't it interesting how conversations can evolve and morph into seemingly unrelated topics?
 
BobF said:
That off shore movement of companies and individuals wealth is due to the higher taxes and more restrictions put on everything this government has decided to do. Companies and individual wealth could all come back to the states if the government would just ease off and make our taxes more incentive than taking the plants and wealth to other countries where taxes are half of the US. We have a very out of control government and it should be changed or replaced. I think this problem preceded Obama but Obama hss only made it worse. Efforts for tax changes so far get no positive responses.

For an article on our tax rates take a look at this Forbes discussion.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi...4-oecd-countries-in-tax-code-competitiveness/
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It seems like governments everywhere are out of control on so many issues! Problem is, that too often when you change the government, the new one is doing the same kind of crap, just different faces behind the mike when they're publicly lying to you. Our Canadian government is no different. I'm hoping that our next election will make some good changes, but you just never know.
 
Ina said:
Warri, What is the G20? Would you expound on this issue more please. You've got my attention. :magnify:
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It's an expanded version of the G8 which is a series of conferences of leaders and experts from the top 20 nations who get together to discuss and form policy on issues of global importance. It is one reason for our elevated security alert. Your President will be coming to Brisbane later this year for the Leaders (as in heads of state) meeting. There's been talk of banning Putin from that meeting as a slap on the wrist but it has been decided that it is better to have him here than not.

G20: Obama to own Brisbane airspace for 80 minutes

Queensland 22, 2014
Amy Remeikis

Queensland state political reporter

For 80 minutes in November, the most powerful man in the world will be able to add Brisbane airspace to the list of things under his control. Brisbane's airspace will be closed for 40 minutes from the moment Barack Obama's ride, Air Force One, begins its descent into Brisbane airport. It'll shut down again when Mr Obama leaves Queensland's fair shores to continue running the free world following the end of the G20's leaders' summit.

Mr Obama's security arrangements are the most cumbersome for G20 organisers. But Russia beats America when it comes to planes – Mr Obama has two planes, one for his motorcade, helicopter and entourage as well as Air Force One, while Vladimir Putin has three.

They are just five of the 29 planes which will be parked at the special G20 terminal, and some of the 50 or so planes organisers will be landing as part of the "airport inside an airport" G20 arrangements. But there will be no chance of catching a glimpse of the world's most famous air craft. All public viewing areas will be closed and the area around the G20 terminal and operations centre will be under lock down.

Between 300 and 350 local officers – drawn from Queensland Police, Australian Federal Police and the G20 security taskforce – will patrol the area, but each country is expected to bring their own security. Australian Air Force jets will have taken to the skies to protect the airspace. They'll be present for the entire three-day summit.

The additional security arrangements will mean normal flights will be affected. Airport authorities are launching a campaign to remind passengers to allow extra time for travel, as roads across the airport will be closed at various times.
It also means flights will be delayed, outbound more than inbound. Friday, November 14 is expected to be the worst time to fly, with organisers working with the airlines to limit the impact to commercial flights.

The G20 runs from Friday, November 14 to Monday, November 17.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...80-minutes-20140922-10ke2w.html#ixzz3E6XdNLUn
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Wikipedia explains more about the 2014 G20 Summit, its participants and the agenda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_G-20_Brisbane_summit

I just found an interactive map an it looks like just about the whole world will be coming.
https://www.g20.org/about_g20/interactive_map
 
[h=1]Obama Administration Moves to Crack Down on Tax Inversions[/h]Source: Forbes

The Treasury Department issued new rules Monday evening to discourage U.S.-based companies from moving their headquarters overseas to reduce their tax bills to Uncle Sam.

The revisions to five sections of the tax code are designed to make it more difficult for companies to strike so-called “tax inversion” deals, in which a U.S. company reincorporates overseas after merging with a foreign business, and to reduce the financial benefits.

“These first, targeted steps make substantial progress in constraining the creative techniques used to avoid U.S. taxes, both in terms of meaningfully reducing the economic benefits of inversions after the fact, and when possible, stopping them altogether,” said Treasury Secretary Jacob J. Lew in a statement. “While comprehensive business tax reform that includes specific anti-inversion provisions is the best way to address the recent surge of inversions, we cannot wait to address this problem.”

Read more: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyb...ration-moves-to-crack-down-on-tax-inversions/


He has repeatedly asked congress to address this problem, looks like he decided to bypass the do nothing congress that caters to the one percent.
 
I don't believe that the companies do take there business overseas as they are just trying to take the tax ability over seas to better circumstances. Burger King for example, did not close their businesses in the US, just changed the taxable jurisdiction from the very expensive potential of the US to a less expensive Canadian tax base. All this silliness of filthy places and nasty places just is not the fact behind these changes. It is the potential cost to the company that is the concern. I believe that some companies have there tax ability in some Caribbean islands.
 
Burger King's only value to our economy would be the taxes it should pay...meager as they are now.. an then totally none existant as they will now pay Canada. It certainly does not provide living wage jobs.. which by the way would benefit the economy by giving ordinary people more disposible income and would be spent 100% on goods and services.. Burger King also DRAINS our economy by paying such low wages that their employees qualify for Food Stamps and Medicaid just to get by. So in essence, WE the taxpayer are subsidizing Burger Kings unfair business model. Therefore.. IMO other than taxes.. they are pretty much useless... except to contribute our obesity problem with the crappy food. I personally will not set foot in one again.
 
Better circumstances? These companies have record breaking profits, pay their executives record breaking salaries. They are cheating the system and dodging their responsibility with the help of Republicans in Congress.
The tax payers have to take up the slack, something needs to be done.
 
Jackie22 said:
Better circumstances? These companies have record breaking profits, pay their executives record breaking salaries. They are cheating the system and dodging their responsibility with the help of Republicans in Congress.
The tax payers have to take up the slack, something needs to be done.
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Very true.. and so long as the disasterous Citizen's United ruling is left to stand.. and Large Corporations can pay off politicians to vote in their favor and their best interests.. our Democracy is in jeopardy. Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT speech. We cannot let only a small few decide what is best for America.. because you KNOW they are not going to look out for the middle class or the poor. The game has been rigged and not in our favor. ALL we have is our vote, and even that is systematically being taken away.
 
QuickSilver said:
Burger King's only value to our economy would be the taxes it should pay...meager as they are now.. an then totally none existant as they will now pay Canada. It certainly does not provide living wage jobs.. which by the way would benefit the economy by giving ordinary people more disposible income and would be spent 100% on goods and services.. Burger King also DRAINS our economy by paying such low wages that their employees qualify for Food Stamps and Medicaid just to get by. So in essence, WE the taxpayer are subsidizing Burger Kings unfair business model. Therefore.. IMO other than taxes.. they are pretty much useless... except to contribute our obesity problem with the crappy food. I personally will not set foot in one again.
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Good point that you brought up that never occurred to me: Low wages = drain on taxpayer via food stamps, etc. In Canada we don't have food stamps, but we do have over burdened food banks (supplied by everyday shoppers who remember to drop a few cans(?) in the collection box before they leave) that have growing lists of clients. Isn't capitalism wonderful - if you're a large corporation?
 
Debby said:
Good point that you brought up that never occurred to me: Low wages = drain on taxpayer via food stamps, etc. In Canada we don't have food stamps, but we do have over burdened food banks (supplied by everyday shoppers who remember to drop a few cans(?) in the collection box before they leave) that have growing lists of clients. Isn't capitalism wonderful - if you're a large corporation?
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This is why I've never believed that pure unfettered capitalism works. It ends up cannibalizing the very economy that supports it. The one and only goal of every corporation under capitalism is to make a profit. It strives to reward it's shareholders and it's executives. It has no conscience. In this profit driven atmosphere everything possible is done to create MORE profit.. including underpaying employees... decreasing benefits... and avoidance of taxes. Money is slowly shifted to the top rather than being redistributed to the middle and bottom.

It's the Middle class that drives an economy IMO.. when people have money in their pockets.. they spend it.. They do not move it into off shore tax havens. When people spend money on goods and services.. it creates a demand for MORE goods and services. This in turn stimulates business to expand and to hire to fill the demand. When businesses hire.. that makes MORE people spending AND paying taxes. IMO taxes on large corporations and the wealthy need to be increased not decreased. This will also slow down the "profit taking" and encourage business to reinvest in the business..in order to defer tax. This will create more jobs and more revenue for services.. I believe in Capitalism.. but there has to be a balance with some socialist programs... There has to be a social safety net below which no citizen can fall. More jobs and better wages will limit the number of people needing assistance... and more taxpayers will produce more revenue.

Those who believe in decreasing taxes and regulations on business are mistakenly buying into "Supply Side" econonmics. This is the mystical magical notion that somehow... someway... if you give the rich more and more money, they will become generous and share... by share I mean paying better wages and creating more and more jobs. That just doesn't happen.. and the last 30 years of "Trickle down" have been proven to not work, and the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. By their very nature.. Corporations are going to protect that profit.. they will move money off shore.. OR they will play the little game of Tax inversion.. Hopefully Congress can put a stop to that garbage.. but not until we get a few folks out of office I'm afraid.. as the pockets of the wealthy are deep.. and buying elections is expensive you know..

We also need to impose penalties on companies who move overseas but still want to tap the US market for profit.. This can be in the form of tarrifs.. or tax codes. Or this economy is going to shrivel up and die. AND the wealthy along with it.
 
In spite of all the complaints, real and imagined, our systems are much better than to over socialized and communist types of government. The more the US goes into these socialist ideas the less freedom we will have. Big business works to protect its investors, who are very often the middle class of folks that have put money into various ventures and hoping for more in return that what our governments can or do offer us. Banks are no longer any place to put your savings, except for the security of it not being lost. Hardly any growth at all if not invested in something like stocks or partnerships.

In the US too much of this paying low wages is because companies like Burger King expect to hire part time folks, high school folks, and are not looking to run high wage businesses like manufacturers with full time employees. Right now we have lots of adults now working for small businesses as they still have not gotten our major industries back on big time productions. Unemployment in the US is still above what it was prior to the melt down. To raise their pay levels to much higher and then they will have to raise the prices to where nobody would want to pay that much just for a small sandwich. Business shut down means out of work for anyone at little or bigger wages. The US is already well above what it should be for cost of living, adding more from the bottom areas does plenty to hurt the economy.

I hope by now that a certain person does realize that moving our taxes to another country does not mean moving the plants to another country. One of the US's biggest companies is also one that pays no, or very few, taxes. You have all probably hears of GE, General Electric.

We need to fix the tax problems, not just add on another gimmick to fix a certain problem like it sounds what Obama has done. He fussed about a do nothing Congress but the biggest part of the do nothing is in Reid, leader of the Senate. He will not move legislation beyond his desk.
 
QuickSilver said:
This is why I've never believed that pure unfettered capitalism works.........

We also need to impose penalties on companies who move overseas but still want to tap the US market for profit.. This can be in the form of tarrifs.. or tax codes. Or this economy is going to shrivel up and die. AND the wealthy along with it.
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Here's a link to a video that you would probably appreciate QuickSilver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKCvf8E7V1g although maybe you've already seen it.

It's a TEDTalk by Nick Hanauer (self made millionaire business man) that was actually banned by TED. He makes the case that tax breaks for the wealthy NEVER result in more jobs. He points out that while a few thousand dollars tax relief will never result in that rich guy buying another pair of pants (supporting the economy) that same tax break to the middle class would mean they can go out and buy shoes for their kids, groceries for the table, etc. And that is a VERY loose paraphrase of his talk.

Imagine, banning his talk when every word of it was true and I think (not positive because it's been a while since I followed this little controversy) that he even got a standing ovation for it. (Hmmm or was that another banned TEDTalk?) Anyway, I think you'll enjoy it.
 
It appears to me that a certain person is doing his darnedest to change the subject from Right to die into an economic topic of his own preference. This thread has gotten too long and is off topic so I will now leave. That should make this one person happy as he will no longer be challenged over his often wrong ideas. The US should never be turned over into a socialized government and lots of folks living by the graces of the government rather than due to their perseverance and independent efforts. The US did not develop its great economies through government meddling and the more meddling our government is doing the worse our economy gets. And more government controls and meddling will just worsen our economy more.

Have a good day folks. Moving on to a better topic now.
 
Who said anything about communism... and for that matter.. who said anything about socialism. Communism doesn't work either... and Pure socialism doens't exist in my knowledge. What we need is a mixed form... as in Democratic.. or Capitalistic socialism. There HAS to be a balance. As a society.. there will always be poor. Poor children.. and elderly that need to be cared for.

Burger King and other companies MAKE part time jobs to avoid paying benefits. Keep people under 30 hours.. so these folks have to work two or three jobs and STILL need food stamps or do without.. Also, the average age of the fast food worker is 29 and they usually are single moms or husband and wife with kids both working low wage jobs... sometimes TWO.. We are not talking highschool kids anymore..

Of course Burger King cannot move all it's restaurants out of the country.. BUT manufacturing firms have... by the thousands.. We have lost millions of good paying jobs to low wage countries... Thousands of companies have moved production over seas.

As for Reid... the Republican plans coming out of the house will hurt the middle class... will descimate Medicare and Social Security and create more income inequality, by cutting social programs for the poor. THANK GOD.. Harry has not bothered bringing them up.. they wouldn't pass the Senate anyway.
 


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