Ron's ex has escalated. Any advice?

Seems like Julie turns them (or perhaps only Sheri) into her minions anyway. Doesn't seem like Ron's strategy of trying to keep them out of his relationship with Julie is working.
 

StarSong said:
Seems like Julie turns them (or perhaps only Sheri) into her minions anyway. Doesn't seem like Ron's strategy of trying to keep them out of his relationship with Julie is working.
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No it’s really not. But he’s been operating this way for most of their lives, so it’s taking him a bit to adjust to some kind of new normal...heck even trying to come to terms with what that needs normal looks like is challenging! He’s working on it.
 
I wrote, I think in my diary, that I thought I had been married to my first husband for 6 years. 😂. I really didn’t remember how long cause it seems to go on for forever. I looked it up on the computer yesterday. We were married for 2 years. The four years came about do to issues over my son, where I guess my feeble mind added those years as marriage. 😂

This is part of Julie“s problem, IMO. Being included so much in Ron”s life for so long it seemed like they still had a connection and she came to accept that she would be the only woman in his life. More of a legal separation than a divorce. Then Ronni, you came along. Julie”s first attitude seems to be you all will be one big happy family, you reject that. Although sometimes it does become one big happy family.

Ron, IMO, handled his divorce badly by not putting up definite lines and blurring the relationship with his first wife. He has to take 50% of the responsibility for Julie”s confusion, not her behavior, her confusion. Julie is confused, she has lost her position in his life which she has had for a long time. You outright rejected her when she probably thought she was being excepting and gracious.

Rejecting her outright probably was a jealousy issue for you, IMO. (I know you reject this.) No one wants an ex wife as close as she was to their husband. There is a possession issue, as in he's mine. These are similar to the issues Ron and you had between you and his daughter and her children. You want to be first in his life. I understand that.

To solve the problem, and to blend the family into one family-therapy, therapy, therapy. First between the three older adults; Ron, Ronni, and Julie. Although IMO, Ron should also get separate therapy. Then, if necessary, bring in the adult children who are struggling.

Otherwise, Ronni, I fear you will struggle forever, resentments will build by everyone, and even if you stay married, the marriage will be unhappy. Just my opinion.
 

Aneeda72 said:
I wrote, I think in my diary, that I thought I had been married to my first husband for 6 years. 😂. I really didn’t remember how long cause it seems to go on for forever. I looked it up on the computer yesterday. We were married for 2 years. The four years came about do to issues over my son, where I guess my feeble mind added those years as marriage. 😂

This is part of Julie“s problem, IMO. Being included so much in Ron”s life for so long it seemed like they still had a connection and she came to accept that she would be the only woman in his life. More of a legal separation than a divorce. Then Ronni, you came along. Julie”s first attitude seems to be you all will be one big happy family, you reject that. Although sometimes it does become one big happy family.

Ron, IMO, handled his divorce badly by not putting up definite lines and blurring the relationship with his first wife. He has to take 50% of the responsibility for Julie”s confusion, not her behavior, her confusion. Julie is confused, she has lost her position in his life which she has had for a long time. You outright rejected her when she probably thought she was being excepting and gracious.

Rejecting her outright probably was a jealousy issue for you, IMO. (I know you reject this.) No one wants an ex wife as close as she was to their husband. There is a possession issue, as in he's mine. These are similar to the issues Ron and you had between you and his daughter and her children. You want to be first in his life. I understand that.

To solve the problem, and to blend the family into one family-therapy, therapy, therapy. First between the three older adults; Ron, Ronni, and Julie. Although IMO, Ron should also get separate therapy. Then, if necessary, bring in the adult children who are struggling.

Otherwise, Ronni, I fear you will struggle forever, resentments will build by everyone, and even if you stay married, the marriage will be unhappy. Just my opinion.
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I don’t agree with most of this. The jealousy issue is Julie’s, not mine. She hates that I have a warm relationship with her daughters and has threatened more than once to cut me out of their lives, as though she actually has that power 🤦🏼‍♀️

She wouldn’t agree to therapy when they were married, I’m sure nothing’s changed, especially because she takes zero responsibility for creating any of the current upset.

I didn’t reject her outright. I simply wouldn’t discuss Ron with her. I maintained a friendly relationship with her for three years before this last onslaught.

While I’m willing to own the parts of this situation that I’ve created or contributed to, I’ll also correct the parts of it that have been mis-characterized or misunderstood.
 
Two issues

1. A drawing

2. Access to your home.

Is keeping the drawing worth the aggravation? If not then take a picture of it, have the picture enlarged to fit the frame.

Take the turtles over to his ex's home. Change the locks on your home. Decide if you want any family member having access to your home.

Peace of mind or ongoing aggravation A choice
 
@Ronni, so sorry to hear you're still going through this nonsense with Julie, she is obviously jealous of your relationship with him and wants to destroy it.

I know it's all very involved, but his kids are grown and although it's a sore spot for him because of the past, he has to just try and let go of that. If I recall, Julie is a heavy drinker, so that explains some of her wild invasive behavior. Ron has been way too nice to her, IMO.

I don't have any specific advice or real answers for you, but at this rate your marriage will fall apart and neither of you will be happy. She's a toxic woman, an emotional vampire, it's sad that she still has such power in your lives. Wish you both the best, priority in my mind is completely eliminating her from your lives....the kids will understand and do what they need to do to deal with things. Life is difficult enough in these times, please don't let Julie continue to ruin yours. :(
 
I don’t have any of those issues I’ve never married or had kids despite having a long term relationship.
He has his abode I have mine .......just the way I like it
 
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win231 said:
A woman does not have to actually be scorned to feel scorned. People often base their actions on how they feel; not how they should feel.
Women whose husbands re-marry after a divorce often say, "He left me for another woman," when the truth is closer to, "Our marriage fell apart, we divorced, & he moved on & re-married."
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There is a lot of truth in what you say in my opinion, and changing the story so it fits in with the narrative you wish others to accept is probably very common.

I've found it quite rare to hear any divorcee speak well, or say anything positive about their ex's, but they married each other so you'd have thought there must have been more to it than just physical attraction.

Folks not being able to move on is common too, and can be defended to an extent, especially when there are children involved. I've seen some or a few positive outcomes, where those ex formerly at loggerheads have eventually, years after maybe, found a level of friendship even, but they had to "go through the mill" before this improvement was seen.
 
Someone here mentioned the book "The Gift of Fear." It was my bible for a long time in dealing with my controlling abusive ex. It's very germane to this current situation with Julie.

Here's a direct quote from the book, which perfectly describes Julie’s escalation:
A person who is seeking to feel justification for some action might move from “What you’ve done angers me” to “What you’ve done is wrong.” Popular justifications include the moral high ground of righteous indignation and the more simple equation known by its biblical name: an eye for an eye.”

She feels no embarrassment or remorse for blowing up our phones while we were on our honeymoon, sending Sheri to search and video our home while we were away, denigrating and insulting me to Ron, threatening me, blaming me for the erosion of "their family,” using deceit and intimidation to engage Ron in conversation when he’d told her clearly she was blocked and he didn’t want to talk to her. She feels completely justified in all of those actions because she's been "wronged." This is about WAY more than a sketch. Her vicious voicemails confirm that. Her escalation the closer we got to our wedding confirms that.

I won’t underestimate what she might be capable of. Clearly she feels justified in carrying out her mission, whatever that might be. And that's why I won't just leave this with Ron, or stay out of it, or let him handle it. I dealt with 30 years of abuse and intimidation and control from a dysfunctional, mentally unbalanced man before I escaped, and then years of intensive education into the different personality types, therapy, support groups etc. so I'm well aware of the mechanisms of her personality type. He's not, but he's becoming more and more aware as we wade through this and deal with each onslaught. The LAST thing Ron will be doing is engaging with her, telling her to knock it off, threatening legal action, or in ANY way closing the distance that he's established. To engage now would simply teach her that THIS is the level of escalation she needs to get to in order to get Ron to talk to her.
 
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Ronni said:
Someone here mentioned the book "The Gift of Fear." It was my bible for a long time in dealing with my controlling abusive ex. It's very germane to this current situation with Julie.

Here's a direct quote from the book, which perfectly describes Julie’s escalation:
A person who is seeking to feel justification for some action might move from “What you’ve done angers me” to “What you’ve done is wrong.” Popular justifications include the moral high ground of righteous indignation and the more simple equation known by its biblical name: an eye for an eye.”

She feels no embarrassment or remorse for blowing up our phones while we were on our honeymoon, sending Sheri to search and video our home while we were away, denigrating and insulting me to Ron, threatening me, blaming me for the erosion of "their family,” using deceit and intimidation to engage Ron in conversation when he’d told her clearly she was blocked and he didn’t want to talk to her. She feels completely justified in all of those actions because she's been "wronged." This is about WAY more than a sketch. Her vicious voicemails confirm that. Her escalation the closer we got to our wedding confirms that.

I won’t underestimate what she might be capable of. Clearly she feels justified in carrying out her mission, whatever that might be. And that's why I won't just leave this with Ron, or stay out of it, or let him handle it. I dealt 30 years of abuse and intimidation and control from a dysfunctional, mentally unbalanced man before I escaped, and then years of intensive education into the different personality types, therapy, support groups etc. so I'm well aware of the mechanisms of her personality type. He's not, but he's becoming more and more aware as we wade through this and deal with each onslaught. The LAST thing Ron will be doing is engaging with her, telling her to knock it off, threatening legal action, or in ANY way closing the distance that he's established. To engage now would simply teach her that THIS is the level of escalation she needs to get to in order to get Ron to talk to her.
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I agree he should not give her attention. But there is a pattern that shows up. I still think Ron would benefit from therapy.
 
Aneeda72 said:
I agree he should not give her attention. But there is a pattern that shows up. I still think Ron would benefit from therapy.
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You may be right. But getting him into therapy won’t solve this immediate threat which is what we’re focused on at the moment.
 
I agree about therapy for both of you, and immediately. You and Ron are clearly out of your depth and Julie could work herself up from a pest to a serious danger with no notice. Throw in alcohol and all bets are off.

@Ronni, you may think you dealt with this effectively with your ex, but for some reason the family intrigue scenario is repeating in your life. It's not coincidental to become attracted to and marrying someone who put you right back into the same soup. This time you may be playing the role of the potatoes instead of the meat, and some of the other ingredients and flavorings also differ slightly, but the overall dish sounds strikingly similar, at least to me.

From knowing you via two years of your posts it's so obvious that you're a deeply caring woman who loves her husband and family with all her heart. I'm quite fond of you and am greatly concerned for your physical and emotional well being.

Please call in the pros.
 
Ronni said:
You may be right. But getting him into therapy won’t solve this immediate threat which is what we’re focused on at the moment.
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No, it won’t and I understand you are focused on this issue. But I think you should focus on the long term goal, a happy solid marriage. Same thing I want, but I have settled for less. I don’t want you to settle.

It seems you are wavering back and forth between him taking charge, you taking charge, and the adult children chiming in; with no end of the drama in sight. If Julie has addiction issues, as suggested, then you can not reason with her. IMO. If you interact with her, she is still getting “fed”.

When mentally retarded adults (and children) act up, they are denied attention until they can control themselves. Individuals are told, in my sons group home, to go to their room until they can behave. If they refuse, then all the other individuals go to their rooms. Same results, the problem individual is ignored. Maybe more ignoring her, by everyone, will work better. Just a suggestion.
 
He definitely should seek a restraining order against her, change the locks and phone numbers and simply be vigilant. Do not enable her in any shape form or manner. Do not allow the kids to enter the home without permission either, for she may be manipulating at least one of them. It even may be necessary to obtain a legal judgement against her.
 
Lewkat said:
He definitely should seek a restraining order against her, change the locks and phone numbers and simply be vigilant. Do not enable her in any shape form or manner. Do not allow the kids to enter the home without permission either, for she may be manipulating at least one of them. It even may be necessary to obtain a legal judgement against her.
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Restraining orders, IMO, restrain few people.
 
Just my two cents worth. Sometimes all the cognitive analysis around a situation such as this falls short, particularly when dealing with someone manifesting quite the cocktail of PD symptoms. Difficult to gage the final outcome, but take all reasonable precautions. Do not rule out the possibility of violence should she be unable to contain her rage once she realises you refuse to engage. I recommend therapy for you both, Ronni and Ron. It will make it easier to understand the complexities of this toxic dynamic, and how to recognise and alter your response when necessary.
 
Aneeda72 said:
Restraining orders, IMO, restrain few people.
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That's true; they don't always restrain, but often, the person causing trouble will not want to be arrested & go to jail. If that's the case here, it will work.
That was the case with my brother who caused my sister & I trouble after our parents died. After I took out a restraining order on him, he stopped. He realized the price of harassing us would be too high; he realized I would not hesitate to have him arrested if he violated the order.
 
Shalimar said:
Just my two cents worth. Sometimes all the cognitive analysis around a situation such as this falls short, particularly when dealing with someone manifesting quite the cocktail of PD symptoms. Difficult to gage the final outcome, but take all reasonable precautions. Do not rule out the possibility of violence should she be unable to contain her rage once she realises you refuse to engage. I recommend therapy for you both, Ronni and Ron. It will make it easier to understand the complexities of this toxic dynamic, and how to recognise and alter your response when necessary.
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This was suggested to me by my muliple doctors. I should have therapy to learn how to deal with husbands behavior via the “correct” way to respond. Plus lots of things were suggested for different situations. The one I use most, bite my tongue, and ignore blah, blah, blah.
 
win231 said:
That's true; they don't always restrain, but often, the person causing trouble will not want to be arrested & go to jail. If that's the case here, it will work.
That was the case with my brother who caused my sister & I trouble after our parents died. After I took out a restraining order on him, he stopped. He realized the price of harassing us would be too high; he realized I would not hesitate to have him arrested if he violated the order.
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The ability of your brother to stop indicates he is an in control person who deliberately harassed you and was able to stop. I doubt Julie is in control of her actions and emotions and needs professional help, therapy, in order to stop.

My husband can not stop certain actions of his, literally can not stop. The words leave his mouth before his brain is even close to engaging. Certain patterns of behavior are so engrained in his make up.
 
The drawing.

As an outsider to the situation I look at who I think should have the drawing. I think the ex. Julie should since during the marriage she drew it. Sentimental value can be as strong for her as it is for Ron. If it was me I'd take a picture of the drawing and give the original to his ex frame and all. Keeping the image in a photo IMO keeps what is a good memory.

Access to your home change the locks. Phone number change that & give it out to only those you want to have it.

Turtles take those to his ex's home if she refuses then take them to the humane society or keep them if they have any sentimental value.

Any escalation after taking away the root cause can be dealt with on the merits of what the escalation is.
 

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