Bullies, and the excuses put forward for their behaviour

[grahamg]

I've heard it said that those prone to bullying were first bullied themselves, and this brought out their behaviour.

I want to shed a little doubt on that viewpoint, (not that I'm suggesting bullies were not themselves once bullied, but this in itself does not prove "cause and effect").

On another thread it has been suggested that men or women whose partners left them for another, may mean they are less likely to be guilty of infidelity themselves, because "they know what it feels like".

Hence the argument, or logic being put forward in either situation, bullying or infidelity, one is supposed to lead to a possible improvement in behaviour, whilst the other forces the person into bad behaviour.

Is it not possible bullies were pretty much born the way they are, and far from them being bullied caused their bad behaviour, it was their tendency to try to bully others that brought about whatever bullying they suffered?

 

[Laurie]

There's only one excuse for bullying.

"Imam inadequate but I have more power than you".

 

[Lee]

Lots of psychologists are making loads of money telling people that they now have an excuse for their bad behavior.

Sometimes they even get them off a lengthy prison sentence.

 

[Fyrefox]

Bullying behavior is not restricted to children, has been modeled and seemingly rewarded stateside at the highest levels of government, and found no shortage of enablers to cheer it on. Bullying has become for some almost commendable, in their minds a case of the admirable strong preying on the contemptible weak who somehow "deserved it" or "needed put in their place." The paradigm has shifted, with bullies becoming more predatory and brazen. Bullying leads to power over others, acceptable behavior has become whatever you can get away with, and when you can't, you play the "victim" card and reverse the chain of blame. In children, the assertion then becomes "he made me do it." Adult bullies, too, are extremely resourceful in finding things and people other than themselves to blame...

 

[grahamg]

There's only one excuse for bullying.

"Imam inadequate but I have more power than you".

I think you've found the main reason, never mind an excuse!

 

[Irwin]

Some people are just assholes -- sociopaths who get pleasure from causing others to suffer.

 

[Pepper]

I had a neighbor some time ago. He and his wife stuffed 4 young kids into a 2 bedroom apartment. 4 and counting. What a wild bunch! Always playing, laughing, screaming with joy! Pests but enjoyable ones.

The dad came from a family of one mother and 9 siblings. All 10 kids had different dads. All step dads were cruel to him. He showed me the welts on his back and legs from when he was tied to radiators as punishment. He was a happy, loving human being. It began when he met his wife and they had kids. It could have been the opposite. It wasn't. He was taught hate and gave love.

Hope I'm not too off topic, but this guy deserves praise.

 

[Gaer]

Is this thread about bullies or about infidelity? For, arn't they two different things?

 

[Judycat]

Most of the bullies I've seen weren't having fun unless they were making someone else miserable. Their radar picks up those who don't want conflict and zeroes in. They are assholes and deserve no mercy.

 

[grahamg]

Is this thread about bullies or about infidelity? For, arn't they two different things?

Bullies, the mention of infidelity was merely mentioned as an example where someone suggested the hurt they might have felt, informed the way they might behave thereafter, (nothing more. . ).

 

[grahamg]

Hopefully, without causing anyone to relive awful memories, are there examples where bullying has occurred of some kind?

My experience btw is of relatively mild bullying, I've certainly never been physically assaulted, and as a schoolboy, put my good luck down to the protection offered by my mates.

In my work life again I've been lucky, but did once have a manager who told me whatever I was asked to do I must do without questioning it, (I asked whether they thought they were like the pope "infallible"?, and as you can imagine that didn't go down too well). The better managers always told me it depended upon whether what they were asking was " reasonable", as to whether instructions should be followed, (and again the vast majority were like this).

 

[Kathleen’s Place]

I had a neighbor some time ago. He and his wife stuffed 4 young kids into a 2 bedroom apartment. 4 and counting. What a wild bunch! Always playing, laughing, screaming with joy! Pests but enjoyable ones.

The dad came from a family of one mother and 9 siblings. All 10 kids had different dads. All step dads were cruel to him. He showed me the welts on his back and legs from when he was tied to radiators as punishment. He was a happy, loving human being. It began when he met his wife and they had kids. It could have been the opposite. It wasn't. He was taught hate and gave love.

Hope I'm not too off topic, but this guy deserves praise.

Yes he does! And I love the description of the wonderful happy family

 

[Kathleen’s Place]

I was never bullied physically, but does being called names, shunned, made constant fun of as a kid constitute bullying?? Inside my home, my safe place, I never realized I wasn’t attractive. I had awful buck teeth that took 10 years to correct. But outside, god life was miserable. To this day at 73 years old, I have the self esteem of a gnat. And it angers me that I can’t seem to get over it. That means they are still winning. But it’s sad what life long effects something like this causes.

 

[officerripley]

I was never bullied physically, but does being called names, shunned, made constant fun of as a kid constitute bullying?? Inside my home, my safe place, I never realized I wasn’t attractive. I had awful buck teeth that took 10 years to correct. But outside, god life was miserable. To this day at 73 years old, I have the self esteem of a gnat. And it angers me that I can’t seem to get over it. That means they are still winning. But it’s sad what life long effects something like this causes.

I hear ya; I was never bullied physically either, but I grew up in a wealthy area (both "old" and "new money") but we were always broke, cars getting repossessed, no $$ for new school clothes, etc. (Never knew why 'till I was older because my dad had the same kind of job & made the same $$ the other kids' dads did; then I learned he was trying to juggle a wife/kids and 1 or 2 mistresses at the same time.) So one of my earliest memories on the school playground was hearing the other kids: "Your mom WORKS?! Ladies don't work outside the home; only daddies work! What's wrong with your family anyway?" and "Your mom dresses you funny, those old [literally, thrift shop] clothes!"

 

[grahamg]

I hear ya; I was never bullied physically either, but I grew up in a wealthy area (both "old" and "new money") but we were always broke, cars getting repossessed, no $$ for new school clothes, etc. (Never knew why 'till I was older because my dad had the same kind of job & made the same $$ the other kids' dads did; then I learned he was trying to juggle a wife/kids and 1 or 2 mistresses at the same time.) So one of my earliest memories on the school playground was hearing the other kids: "Your mom WORKS?! Ladies don't work outside the home; only daddies work! What's wrong with your family anyway?" and "Your mom dresses you funny, those old [literally, thrift shop] clothes!"

You are in good company with those thrift shop clothes, not only my good self, but Greta Thunberg no less, (my then wife btw, used to turn her nose up at the reduced price or bargain rail in expensive stores, so as you can see we were not meant for each other, oh and she did dominate me psychologically, to the extent I was afraid of her, so I guess I've been bullied to that degree anyway!).

 

[mellowyellow]

Bullies pick on the child/adult they know won’t fight back so sadly, they usually win.

 

[jerry old]

The search to define bullying is not sought when a thug is pounding your butt with a club.

 

[Irwin]

I read somewhere that some bullies are bullied at home, and they take it out on others so they can feel some sense of power that they don't have at home. Sounds plausible.

 

[Remy]

It may just be my observation, but I think the bully is rarely alone. They work two or more while picking on someone alone.

 

[WhatInThe]

Alot of adult bullying is deflection and control(perception of). Some adults must be the alpha in just about any situation. Many are slick especially adult bullies so they wait until certain people and/or witnesses are not around for their behavior.

It's grade school yard behavior.I've seen it in family and the work place. Sometimes their behavior is outlandish and child like and other's it's psycho. No reason for half century old adults to throw child like tantrums to make their point.

 

[fuzzybuddy]

I believe bullying is a human trait. There's no school one has to go to learn how to bully. It is a behavior that anyone may demonstrate. It's up there with racism, bigotry, etc. .etc. etc. BTW, just because we may understand some of the emotional basis for bullying, that is no "excuse" for bullying. Bullying is a conscience, and will full behavior, it's not something one is driven to.

 

[Ruby Rose]

I've heard it said that those prone to bullying were first bullied themselves, and this brought out their behaviour.

I want to shed a little doubt on that viewpoint, (not that I'm suggesting bullies were not themselves once bullied, but this in itself does not prove "cause and effect").

On another thread it has been suggested that men or women whose partners left them for another, may mean they are less likely to be guilty of infidelity themselves, because "they know what it feels like".

Hence the argument, or logic being put forward in either situation, bullying or infidelity, one is supposed to lead to a possible improvement in behaviour, whilst the other forces the person into bad behaviour.

Is it not possible bullies were pretty much born the way they are, and far from them being bullied caused their bad behaviour, it was their tendency to try to bully others that brought about whatever bullying they suffered?

I don't know if being part of a big family is the reason, but we did not tolerate bullies in the family in the day. Having many brothers also played a role in warding off potential bullies from outside our family.

When I married and had children, I took care of bullies but not with physical action. I analyzed the "why" of the bully and found the weak spots. I advised the element of surprise, which I introduced to my son, and it worked! I find there is always a story behind bullying actions. As for my son, he and the bully (twice his size) became good friends and all because of a question that came out of my son's mouth to the bully as he was preparing to attack my son; that question was, "Do you want to have lunch with me today? We're having hot dogs."

 

[Murrmurr]

I believe bullying is a human trait. There's no school one has to go to learn how to bully. It is a behavior that anyone may demonstrate. It's up there with racism, bigotry, etc. .etc. etc. BTW, just because we may understand some of the emotional basis for bullying, that is no "excuse" for bullying. Bullying is a conscience, and will full behavior, it's not something one is driven to.

I firmly believe bullying is taught or encouraged via ignorant parenting.

 

[grahamg]

I believe bullying is a human trait. There's no school one has to go to learn how to bully. It is a behavior that anyone may demonstrate. It's up there with racism, bigotry, etc. .etc. etc. BTW, just because we may understand some of the emotional basis for bullying, that is no "excuse" for bullying. Bullying is a conscience, and will full behavior, it's not something one is driven to.

I've done my usual trick of seeking some expert opinion "late in the day", to see how my own comments, your comments or the comments of others, fit in with lets say those purporting to know a little more than the rest of us, (I dont intend that to sound too disparaging of experts btw).

This site relates mainly to children bullying or bullying in schools:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/basics/bullying

Quote:
"Are bullies born or made?
Bullies are made, not born, and it happens at an early age, if the normal aggression of 2-year-olds is not handled with consistency, children fail to acquire internal restraints against such behavior. Bullying remains a very durable behavioral style, largely because bullies get what they want—at least at first."

Break

"Why don’t bystanders stop bullies?
Bullies frequently carry out their aggression before an audience of peers, and the presence of an audience can boost a bully’s sense of power. But bystanders seldom stop the aggression, they may in fact enjoy the spectacle. Even if they don’t approve of the situation, they may dislike the victim or fear retaliation by the bully."

 

[Nathan]

I've heard it said that those prone to bullying were first bullied themselves, and this brought out their behaviour.

I want to shed a little doubt on that viewpoint, (not that I'm suggesting bullies were not themselves once bullied, but this in itself does not prove "cause and effect").

On another thread it has been suggested that men or women whose partners left them for another, may mean they are less likely to be guilty of infidelity themselves, because "they know what it feels like".

Hence the argument, or logic being put forward in either situation, bullying or infidelity, one is supposed to lead to a possible improvement in behaviour, whilst the other forces the person into bad behaviour.

Is it not possible bullies were pretty much born the way they are, and far from them being bullied caused their bad behaviour, it was their tendency to try to bully others that brought about whatever bullying they suffered?

About bullying- I don't think there's any 'constants' in the formula that can predict which way a person's behavior will turn. That said, it occurs to me that a strong case could be made that bullies at some point have self-esteem deficits, which they try to boost, at someone else's expense. I do think some bullies seek to victimize others because they themselves had been bullied.

I witnessed my former son-in-law being rough with his son for crying...wanted to make him "toughen up". I'm sure his father did the same thing to him, insanity being passed from generation to generation. <shakes head>