Shooting In Pennsylvania (long story)

911

911

Well-known Member
Location
USA
I really don’t know where to start, but I do know that I had to share this story with someone. I have been up all night, not being able to sleep.

Just before I retired from the state police, I was training a young Trooper who had graduated from the Academy about 2 months prior. Last evening around 5 o’clock, he called me because he was called to the scene of a shooting earlier in the week where 3 people were shot and killed.

Here’s the story. A man and wife lived across the street from another man in Luzerne County, which is located in northern PA. They were all out shoveling snow when an argument began between them. Many very foul and vulgar expletives were exchanged as they shouted at each other going back and forth.

The man that was alone went into his house and came out with a gun. First, he started shooting at the other man and then his wife. He initially struck the man before firing at and hitting his wife. Both of them were now on the ground.

After emptying his gun, he went back into the house and came out with another gun and when he returned to the street, he first went over to the man and shot the him again a few times killing him. He then walked over to the woman and shot her twice, the last shot was the kill shot when he leaned over her and put a bullet in her head.

Then, he walked back to the side of his house and killed himself. It was a very gory scene when he arrived. The local police had also responded to the call. You would think that a police officer would have no problem seeing the bodies and blood lying in the street at the scene, however, the problem was that there was a camera mounted with sound outside and at the side of one of the other homes in the area, which caught the whole episode on video.

When he returned back to the barracks, he reviewed the video and watched the whole thing play out, including the killings. He told me that he couldn’t get the images out of his mind and e-mailed me a copy of the video, which I should never have watched. It brought back a lot of really bad feelings and this is why I couldn’t sleep last night.

He asked me how he erases the memory of what he saw on the video and I told that he doesn’t. Only time will do that, and he should go see our therapist for some PTSD recovery methods, which he has agreed to do.

I would put the video on this post, but I think it may have a really bad effect on others and it would also violate the TOS and the victim’s privacy, among other legal issues, I am sure.

This happened earlier in the week, but he waited until yesterday to call me because he is having issues in moving on from it. Here is the link to the story. I hope it doesn’t disturb anyone.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...snow-removal-dispute-prosecutors-say-n1256599
 

I'm sorry 911...I have no words at all, I'm just so sorry that you , your protégée or any officer or innocent bystanders ever have to watch anything so gruesome.

My ex was a fire-fighter and as you well know they're often called to the scene before an ambulance and police, and also have to rescue very damaged dead, or burnt bodies from burning buildings..often babies and children.

They always had to have de-briefings back then, I suppose now it would be as you say..PTSD therapy...
 
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hollydolly said:
I'm sorry 911...I have now words at all, I'm just so sorry that you , your protégée or any officer or innocent bystanders ever have to watch anything so gruesome.

My ex was a fire-fighter and as you well know they're often called to the scene before an ambulance and police, and also have to rescue very damaged dead, or burnt bodies from burning buildings..often babies and children.

They always had to have de-briefings back then, I suppose now it would be as you say..PTSD therapy...
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Holly, I have seen many dead bodies, but when you watch someone being shot and killed, I can't explain the feelings that come over me. When I watched the video, the shooter shot and wounded both husband and wife. He then went back into the house and instead of reloading, he grabs another gun and comes back out onto the street, walks up to the husband, shouts a few vulgar expletives at him and then finishes him off. He then walks to his wife, who is laying on the snow-covered street wounded and crying, leans over her, calls her a few vulgar names and then fires a kill shot to her head. He then walks to the side of his home and even though I couldn't see the picture, I could hear the fatal shot to himself.

To watch something like that leaves a person with such a very hollow feeling that it's hard to imagine that people are so callous and can treat others that way. OK, so my friend called me a little while ago and told me that the video is on YouTube from the TV show, "Inside Edition." I am sure that it will be taken down, so if you want to watch part of what went down, here it is.

WARNING!!!! VERY GRAPHIC!!!! WARNING!!!! VERY GRAPHIC!!!! WARNING!!!! VERY GRAPHIC!!!! WARNING!!!! VERY GRAPHIC!!!!

Video of Couple Being Shot!!
 
911,

I do understand what you are talking about, though my own experiences were in Vietnam. There is another person in this forum who butted into a conversation between two Vietnam veterans in the military sub-forum, complaining that Vietnam veterans always have to talk about the war when veterans of other wars before and after Vietnam, "just shut up about it and do their job". He went on to say that we "lost that war". When I, and the two vets who were having the conversation corrected him on his history and the fact that other veterans do, in fact, talk about their respective wars, he never responded. We don't tell war stories (unless possibly when inebriated...), but we do discuss Vietnam in general with other Vietnam vets and the military sub-forum here is a place for that.

With this thread, I sincerely hope this guy doesn't come in here and lay into you talking about this situation. These things happen. They are very real, and they never go away in one's mind. A means of dealing with it at times can be to talk to others who have had similar life experiences in one form or another, and having somebody butt in and try to shut that down is just downright rude and incredibly callous. I know that if this had been in person, the guy who butted in would not be walking away. The anonymity of the internet saved his ass.

I feel in sympathy for you and your friend in this situation. For you, all the memories from your work life come alive with renewed freshness. For your friend, this is probably the first of many such memories he will collect, especially in our increasingly violent country. Take care and share whenever you need to. Personally, I am glad you are here and I thank you for your service to your community.

Tony
 
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Probably longstanding problems over dumb things like property lines and who should throw their snow where.

Sadly where I live, neighbors are involved in decades old feuds over mundane things. Some had tried starting things with me. When I wouldn't react they'd escalate the annoyance to the point where I was ready to kill somebody. Finally filed a complaint with the District Magistrate and they let me alone. Having to go to a hearing cut too much into their beer and TV time, I guess.

Surprised this kind of crazed revenge killing doesn't happen more often. In any case, every time I hear a gunshot I note the time, in case a cop comes a-knocking.
 
911 said:
I really don’t know where to start, but I do know that I had to share this story with someone. I have been up all night, not being able to sleep.

Just before I retired from the state police, I was training a young Trooper who had graduated from the Academy about 2 months prior. Last evening around 5 o’clock, he called me because he was called to the scene of a shooting earlier in the week where 3 people were shot and killed.

Here’s the story. A man and wife lived across the street from another man in Luzerne County, which is located in northern PA. They were all out shoveling snow when an argument began between them. Many very foul and vulgar expletives were exchanged as they shouted at each other going back and forth.

The man that was alone went into his house and came out with a gun. First, he started shooting at the other man and then his wife. He initially struck the man before firing at and hitting his wife. Both of them were now on the ground.

After emptying his gun, he went back into the house and came out with another gun and when he returned to the street, he first went over to the man and shot the him again a few times killing him. He then walked over to the woman and shot her twice, the last shot was the kill shot when he leaned over her and put a bullet in her head.

Then, he walked back to the side of his house and killed himself. It was a very gory scene when he arrived. The local police had also responded to the call. You would think that a police officer would have no problem seeing the bodies and blood lying in the street at the scene, however, the problem was that there was a camera mounted with sound outside and at the side of one of the other homes in the area, which caught the whole episode on video.

When he returned back to the barracks, he reviewed the video and watched the whole thing play out, including the killings. He told me that he couldn’t get the images out of his mind and e-mailed me a copy of the video, which I should never have watched. It brought back a lot of really bad feelings and this is why I couldn’t sleep last night.

He asked me how he erases the memory of what he saw on the video and I told that he doesn’t. Only time will do that, and he should go see our therapist for some PTSD recovery methods, which he has agreed to do.

I would put the video on this post, but I think it may have a really bad effect on others and it would also violate the TOS and the victim’s privacy, among other legal issues, I am sure.

This happened earlier in the week, but he waited until yesterday to call me because he is having issues in moving on from it. Here is the link to the story. I hope it doesn’t disturb anyone.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...snow-removal-dispute-prosecutors-say-n1256599
Click to expand...
This was front page news on Fox when it happened and I did not see the video. It is obvious that the man who did all the shooting was mentally disturbed and I wonder if there weren't red flags indicating this? He never should have had weapons for sure. I presume there had been bad blood between these people for some time. What a terrible tragedy and such a sad waste. Your trooper friend should seek some counseling if he is really in bad shape over all this. I know I would.
 
The incident is another example of "It takes TWO."
Two people have to act like morons in order for such tragedies to happen. The murdered couple instigated it, then escalated it.
Of course no one deserves to be killed for being stupid, but when you annoy others, you never know what they're already going through, you don't know their mental state or how they will react.

I'm friends with a lady who is married to such an idiot. I went driving with him to pick up food. It was the one and ONLY time I'll ever get in a car he's driving. He started road rage & flipped off & yelled at another driver off because he thought he shouldn't have passed him. Believe it or not, he's 86. Age should come with maturity, but it doesn't always.
There's no fool like an old fool.

When my ex wife & I were looking for a parking space in a crowded lot, I waited for a couple that was leaving. Another driver sped into the space while I was moving into it, almost hitting me. As he got out of his car, he yelled "F--- You" at ME. I just drove away to find another space.
My "loving" wife criticized me for letting him get away with it & also reminded me that her first husband (who died at 30) would have never let someone take their parking space. I replied, "Your first husband was an idiot."
 
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I'm familiar with the story. It happened not far from where I live, and I mentioned it in a thread about snow shoveling. Anything can happen when emotion trumps reason. Somewhere along the line as I went through life I found it's just better to be quiet and walk away and let the antagonist make a fool of themselves in front of the neighbors.
 
I watched the raw uncut video with sound. I really feel for my young Trooper friend. I plan on visiting with him tomorrow, even though it's a 2 1/2 hour drive one-way. I know how I felt when I saw my first dead body and then his autopsy. It is one of those things that can really stay with a person and mess you up, unless you speak to someone about it. Talking to others about events that stun a person is good therapy. At least, for me it is. This is why I put it here on the forum.
 
tbeltrans said:
911,

I do understand what you are talking about, though my own experiences were in Vietnam. There is another person in this forum who butted into a conversation between two Vietnam veterans in the military sub-forum, complaining that Vietnam veterans always have to talk about the war when veterans of other wars before and after Vietnam, "just shut up about it and do their job". He went on to say that we "lost that war". When I, and the two vets who were having the conversation corrected him on his history and the fact that other veterans do, in fact, talk about their respective wars, he never responded. We don't tell war stories (unless possibly when inebriated...), but we do discuss Vietnam in general with other Vietnam vets and the military sub-forum here is a place for that.

With this thread, I sincerely hope this guy doesn't come in here and lay into you talking about this situation. These things happen. They are very real, and they never go away in one's mind. A means of dealing with it at times can be to talk to others who have had similar life experiences in one form or another, and having somebody butt in and try to shut that down is just downright rude and incredibly callous. I know that if this had been in person, the guy who butted in would not be walking away. The anonymity of the internet saved his ass.

I feel in sympathy for you and your friend in this situation. For you, all the memories from your work life come alive with renewed freshness. For your friend, this is probably the first of many such memories he will collect, especially in our increasingly violent country. Take care and share whenever you need to. Personally, I am glad you are here and I thank you for your service to your community.
Click to expand...
Shortly after my arrival in Vietnam, we went out on patrol. Only 17 of us went out, but only 16 came back. The Marine next to me was shot and killed by a sniper. Without thinking, I quickly returned fire and shot him. He fell out of the tree he was in and landed flat on his back. (I kept telling myself that the fall killed him and not my shot.) The other men came by and patted me on the back, but that's when I first felt that feeling of being stunned. I couldn't move for a few seconds. I had to reflect on what had just happened. I never told my parents about it until I returned home. I did find out that it's true what we used to say in law enforcement. After you kill one person, the next one comes easier. I think we all learned that over there.

But that's war for you. Not my personal life where we are taught to be more civilized and walk away when possible.
 
911 said:
Shortly after my arrival in Vietnam, we went out on patrol. Only 17 of us went out, but only 16 came back. The Marine next to me was shot and killed by a sniper. Without thinking, I quickly returned fire and shot him. He fell out of the tree he was in and landed flat on his back. (I kept telling myself that the fall killed him and not my shot.) The other men came by and patted me on the back, but that's when I first felt that feeling of being stunned. I couldn't move for a few seconds. I had to reflect on what had just happened. I never told my parents about it until I returned home. I did find out that it's true what we used to say in law enforcement. After you kill one person, the next one comes easier. I think we all learned that over there.

But that's war for you. Not my personal life where we are taught to be more civilized and walk away when possible.
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That is why I have never owned a weapon since coming home. It is only recently, with the Minneapolis City Council decimating the Minneapolis Police Department and the ensuing spike in crime that I have even considered it.

One of the ways in which war changes us, I have since discovered, is that we tend to have a "shorter fuse" (i.e. quicker temper). I could sense that, but it wasn't until those coming back from the Middle East began talking about their issues in the media that I was able to put a description on my own experiences coming home.

Tony
 
I listened to/watch one partial video the sound, the audio was just as chilling. It was visceral. Throw in the fact that both were probably tired and adrenaline running from shoveling snow did not help. Also saw where they had a long running feud. The killer probably felt out numbered by two people with snow shovels.

No one should be dumping their debris wether it be snow, tree branches, dust onto the street. I see that alot with local landscapers. Neighbor had one and over half the street was green after they left.
 
911 said:
I really don’t know where to start, but I do know that I had to share this story with someone. I have been up all night, not being able to sleep.
...
He asked me how he erases the memory of what he saw on the video and I told that he doesn’t. Only time will do that, and he should go see our therapist for some PTSD recovery methods, which he has agreed to do.
Click to expand...

I read somewhere that not sleeping after a traumatic experience is good, because it interferes with our brains processing the experience into memory. Not sure that is true but maybe it is good you were not able to sleep after seeing it.

Regarding erasing the memory...once when I had a foster child who was holding her eyes open with her fingers because if her eyelids closed she'd see flashbacks of blood coming out of someone, I googled it and found, I forget what it is called, some sort of "tapping" procedure where the traumatized person thinks of the bad stuff while tapping on various acupuncture spots and that is supposed to derail the emotional response. We did that alot especially at bedtime when she was afraid to go to sleep, and although she always said it didn't work, it sure seemed to because she would go to sleep. Also I learned later that she would do the procedure herself, so she must have felt like it helped even though she maintained that it didn't.
 
RadishRose said:
Tragedy. Mental illness at its worst.

I feel so badly for your friend. This scenario could traumatize anyone.

I hope you're feeling well enough for that long drive, 911. You truly are a kind and caring friend. 🌹
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I don't see it as mental illness at all.

Give every young child a sharp stick, and sooner or later someone is guaranteed to lose an eye.

Allow everyone to own a gun, and sooner or later people will start reaching for those guns to settle scores.
 
WhatInThe said:
I listened to/watch one partial video the sound, the audio was just as chilling. It was visceral. Throw in the fact that both were probably tired and adrenaline running from shoveling snow did not help. Also saw where they had a long running feud. The killer probably felt out numbered by two people with snow shovels.

No one should be dumping their debris wether it be snow, tree branches, dust onto the street. I see that alot with local landscapers. Neighbor had one and over half the street was green after they left.
Click to expand...
I see gardeners blowing everything into the street all the time. It's easier & faster than blowing it into a pile & picking it up like I do.
 
911 I am so sorry to hear what your friend had to go through. I can't understand people anymore. Police officers and firefighters put their lives on the line every day. I can't imagine what they have to see and deal with. I lost a very close friend years ago that was a firefighter. What bothers me a lot is that they never get the respect they deserve. In my eyes they are Heroes :cry:
 
Saying a prayer for your friend. I hope he never becomes jaded and desensitized to seeing this kind of mindless violence...I hope none of us do.
I say a prayer that he can get past it, but remembering will make him a better, more aware officer I think. God bless and protect those who face this every day for a living...police officers, firemen, soldiers 💕 Thank you for YOUR past service and bless you for being there for him
 
izzy said:
When I hear tragic stories like this makes me glad I live in the uk. We have alot of trouble with knife crime but the thought of the general public being able to get their hands on guns is truly scary.
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Interesting you say that ... my wife and I enjoy some of the British cop shows. Every time I see one of your cops put himself or herself in a dangerous situation, I keep thinking "Oh no! S/he doesn't even have a weapon!". Cultural differences are deeply ingrained sometimes.

Tony
 
tbeltrans said:
Interesting you say that ... my wife and I enjoy some of the British cop shows. Every time I see one of your cops put himself or herself in a dangerous situation, I keep thinking "Oh no! S/he doesn't even have a weapon!". Cultural differences are deeply ingrained sometimes.

Tony
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Your right cultural differences are indeed deeply ingrained sometimes ie the idea that someone can buy a gun before they are allowed to purchase alcohol seems absolutely crazy to me.
 

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