Can anyone get in a nursing home?

StarSong said:
It disturbs me to read how many people think the government (i.e., taxpayers) should bear nursing home costs for people who give away their assets specifically to dodge the financial responsibility of their own care.

I see nothing admirable about that position.
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I don't either but thats what happens. I looked after a dear friend who had no family and I was his close friend. He had a lot of assets and we used all of them when he had to go to a facility. Due to his assets I was able to get him into a very nice place and they do exist. It never entered our minds to try and do otherwise. He had saved for years and invested wisely over the years so he was able to be cared for in a decent way.
 

I have been considering contacting [Visiting Angels] or the many others about their costs for weekly visits , as opposed to a nursing home. Perhaps include food / in home cooking, etc. I really do not know much about them.

My arthritis / neuropathy isn't getting any better, don't suspect it will. As such it would be nice to have a little help with the day to day .

If I ever get to the point that I cannot shower myself,etc. I'll shoot myself.
 
rgp said:
I have been considering contacting [Visiting Angels] or the many others about their costs for weekly visits , as opposed to a nursing home. Perhaps include food / in home cooking, etc. I really do not know much about them.

My arthritis / neuropathy isn't getting any better, don't suspect it will. As such it would be nice to have a little help with the day to day .

If I ever get to the point that I cannot shower myself,etc. I'll shoot myself.
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All I know about Visiting Angels is they don't service this area; are they pretty good?
 
officerripley said:
All I know about Visiting Angels is they don't service this area; are they pretty good?
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I've had some experience with them for my father-in-law. Like any caregiving services it depends entirely on the humans who are actually showing up to do the work.

Some are wonderful, some terrible, and most are mediocre. The more difficult the client, the faster they run through caregivers. My FIL was a kind, gentle man but as his brain began to slip he occasionally became sexually inappropriate, which is evidently a very common issue with elderly men whose inhibitions are eroded by dementia.

We solved the problem by shifting to male caregivers only.
 
rgp said:
What is the average cost p /month in a decent place ? Anyone know ?
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There's no ball park figure. It depends on your state of health, or the state of your illness, your bank account, and Medicare, your state's funding part, and rules, and where you live. When I had to go into a nursing home it was $5,000/month for a mid range, medium care facility in PA.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
rpg, it sounds like you may need help around the house, more than skilled nursing care. But the best place to get info and help is your state's department of aging. They are the ones with all the referral contacts. Your county will also have a 'Dept. of Aging', they might also give info, and help.
Department of Aging | Ohio.gov
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I'll look into it, Thank you .........

A friend/neighbor, is also looking into N/homes & the alternatives. He said at the only N/home where he inquired, one of their first requirements was his bank statements, full financial disclosure. He walked out.
 
Jim W. said:
You could probably put bank accounts in your kids' names without telling them about it. Have all the monthly bank statements and 1099 IRS forms sent to your house and pay any taxes on owed on the interest.
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I dunno about where you are, but around here it is a really, really. really bad idea to try to defraud Medicaid. They have eagle eyes out for stunts like you suggest and would catch it in a heartbeat.
 
Butterfly said:
I dunno about where you are, but around here it is a really, really. really bad idea to try to defraud Medicaid. They have eagle eyes out for stunts like you suggest and would catch it in a heartbeat.
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Plus, I don't think banks'll let you put somebody's name on your account unless they come in with you to the bank, I think they have to sign something to get added to an account.
 
Yes.. as long as he have some type of income. Even if he did not - the State will cover it to some degree. May not be the best place but they will take practically anyone. @StarSong there are people that did not give away their assets, they had none.. could be due to MH issues, etc. I don't judge anyone. Some people are one paycheck away from being homeless. Everyone has their own story/challenges. However, I respect your take on it.
 
Butterfly said:
I dunno about where you are, but around here it is a really, really. really bad idea to try to defraud Medicaid. They have eagle eyes out for stunts like you suggest and would catch it in a heartbeat.
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I understand that, but transferring your assets is not illegal. If you do it more than 5 years prior to applying for Medicaid, there's really nothing anyone can do.

There's no law that says you have to tell your children that you opened bank accounts in their names and put a large sums of money in them.

As I said before.... if you do that more than five years before applying for Medicaid, there's nothing they can do. The rule is... any assets transferred to the ownership of another, five years or more prior to applying for Medicaid, are untouchable.

If on the other hand, you knew that you were going to be applying for Medicaid in a short period of time, then attempted to hide your assets and deny that you had ever owned them, that could be construed as attempting to defraud.
 
Ladybj said:
Yes.. as long as he have some type of income. Even if he did not - the State will cover it to some degree. May not be the best place but they will take practically anyone. @StarSong there are people that did not give away their assets, they had none.. could be due to MH issues, etc. I don't judge anyone. Some people are one paycheck away from being homeless. Everyone has their own story/challenges. However, I respect your take on it.
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People without assets are covered by Medicaid, and that's how it should be. I object to people who shelter their assets by hiding them or giving them to family, then go on the public dole. The Medicaid safety net is intended to catch people before they don't hit the ground, not to comfortably suspend them when they're still ten stories up.

@Jim W., it might be legal but that doesn't make it morally or ethically right. There's no such thing as a free lunch. Someone has to pay the tab. People who intentionally divest themselves of their assets rather than paying for their own nursing home care are taking money from their neighbors' and friends' pockets.

If the US shifted to Canadian or UK style socialized health benefits, I'd be all for it. That would involve higher taxes for everyone though.
 
StarSong said:
People without assets are covered by Medicaid, and that's how it should be. I object to people who shelter their assets by hiding them or giving them to family, then go on the public dole. The Medicaid safety net is intended to catch people before they don't hit the ground, not to comfortably suspend them when they're still ten stories up.

@Jim W., it might be legal but that doesn't make it morally or ethically right. There's no such thing as a free lunch. Someone has to pay the tab. People who intentionally divest themselves of their assets rather than paying for their own nursing home care are taking money from their neighbors' and friends' pockets.

If the US shifted to Canadian or UK style socialized health benefits, I'd be all for it. That would involve higher taxes for everyone though.
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Yet, there are perfectly legal avenues to avoid spending your assets on nursing home care even within the five year period, which are considered acceptable.

There is an entire specialty of civil law that concerns itself with elder care law.

These attorneys, for a percentage of the pot, set up trusts which are designed to not be countable as personal assets by Medicaid.

I have a certain amount of sympathy for some of the people who do this.

For example, an elderly couple spend their lives saving their money and doing without vacations and new cars and dining out at nice restaurants, etc. etc. etc. They manage to sock away fifty or a hundred or so thousand dollars, hoping to leave it to their children for their grandchildren's college. Having to spend the entire amount to stay in a nursing home that is dirty, understaffed and doesn't provide them with adequate care, is not fair either.

It's like the über wealthy taking advantage of the tax codes to get out of paying their fair share of income taxes.

If the system is designed a certain way that leaves an open avenue for those who are savvy enough to take it, then by all means, they ought to.

Besides, there is enough wealth in this country that, if spent wisely, could provide health and nursing home care for everyone.

Even if not 100% free, it could be much, much more affordable than it is.
 
Jim W. said:
I understand that, but transferring your assets is not illegal. If you do it more than 5 years prior to applying for Medicaid, there's really nothing anyone can do.

There's no law that says you have to tell your children that you opened bank accounts in their names and put a large sums of money in them.

As I said before.... if you do that more than five years before applying for Medicaid, there's nothing they can do. The rule is... any assets transferred to the ownership of another, five years or more prior to applying for Medicaid, are untouchable.

If on the other hand, you knew that you were going to be applying for Medicaid in a short period of time, then attempted to hide your assets and deny that you had ever owned them, that could be construed as attempting to defraud.
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No law about that maybe but most banks have a policy that the person you're either adding to an existing account or setting up an account solely for have to go into the bank in person:

https://www.wellsfargo.com/help/onl...d an owner or,will update your signature card. (Click on the 3rd plus sign down if need be.)

So as to not bog down this reply with oodles of links but BofA and Citibank are the same; it appears that Chase bank may be the only large bank that doesn't require the presence at a branch of the one being added.
 
StarSong said:
People without assets are covered by Medicaid, and that's how it should be. I object to people who shelter their assets by hiding them or giving them to family, then go on the public dole. The Medicaid safety net is intended to catch people before they don't hit the ground, not to comfortably suspend them when they're still ten stories up.

@Jim W., it might be legal but that doesn't make it morally or ethically right. There's no such thing as a free lunch. Someone has to pay the tab. People who intentionally divest themselves of their assets rather than paying for their own nursing home care are taking money from their neighbors' and friends' pockets.

If the US shifted to Canadian or UK style socialized health benefits, I'd be all for it. That would involve higher taxes for everyone though.
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" People who intentionally divest themselves of their assets rather than paying for their own nursing home care are taking money from their neighbors' and friends' pockets."

I have always felt something similar . By that I mean, let's say a person has $500,000 [half a million]......and they hide it , or pass it off to their kids etc. Why should I pay [through my taxes] for their care & comfort ? I say spend theirs first, then if they out-live theirs , ask for/expect my help.
 
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officerripley said:
No law about that maybe but most banks have a policy that the person you're either adding to an existing account or setting up an account solely for have to go into the bank in person:

https://www.wellsfargo.com/help/online-banking/profile-faqs/#:~:text=To add an owner or,will update your signature card. (Click on the 3rd plus sign down if need be.)

So as to not bog down this reply with oodles of links but BofA and Citibank are the same; it appears that Chase bank may be the only large bank that doesn't require the presence at a branch of the one being added.
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My mom opened up a joint CD with me as the co-owner, without me being there or knowing about it until she told me several months later.

I don't know if my presence would have been required if she had later made me the sole owner and had her name removed.

Or if one could open an account with a small amount then transfer a large amount into it.

Keep in mind though, that I was responding to a post that was concerned with the subject of someone being able to trust their kids not to raid the account and spend all the money.

My response was about how to put the money in the kids' names without them knowing about it.
 
rgp said:
" People who intentionally divest themselves of their assets rather than paying for their own nursing home care are taking money from their neighbors' and friends' pockets."

I have always felt something similar . By that I mean, let's say a person has $500,00 [half a million]......and they hide it , or pass it off to their kids etc. Why should I pay [through my taxes] for their care & comfort ? I say spend theirs first, then if they out-live theirs , ask for/expect my help.
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If a person has half a million socked away, that's certainly getting up into the territory where I would not support them divesting those assets (or all of them anyway) to protect them from Medicaid. But if someone had 100k or 150k saved and wanted to protect say 2/3 of it so their kids/grandkids could benefit, I have no problem with it.

Again.... for-profit nursing homes charge huge amounts of money while cutting every corner they can and deliver substandard care. That's not fair either.

My mom paid $50,000 for her six months of self-pay before she passed away.

She got the same level of care as the Medicaid residents.
 

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