Vaccine is amazingly effective!

[Alligatorob]

They need to change that silly "99.99%" number.

I agree, claims like that don't help at all. Even if true its not a very useful number. I did some quick, and no doubt inaccurate, calculations to illustrate.

Assuming the population of vaccinated people is only representative of the past 90 days, I think this is a reasonable WAG at an average. The 1,263 works out to about 14 deaths/day. It looks to me like the total Covid death rate has averaged around 600 deaths/day in that same timeframe, again a WAG (https://www.google.com/search?q=us+...UKEwjqo5680cTyAhVYkWoFHXXWAE4QyNoBKAF6BAgPEAc).

Assuming about half the population has been vaccinated this would work out to a death rate for the unvaccinated at about 20 times the vaccinated. Putting that into % it works out to a death rate about 95% lower for vaccinated. Still impressive, but a lot more believable than 99.999%.

No one should believe or quote my numbers they are at best a WAG (Wild Ass Guess). Only intended to make the point that what CNN reported was nearly useless. What needs to happen is for some good unbiased statisticians and epidemiologists to look at the numbers and give us some real useful analysis. That would let folks make more informed and intelligent decisions about the vaccine.

Of course 99.999% makes a better headline than 95%... And not doing the work necessary to be meaningful is a lot easier...

 

[charry]

Much like people who got a flu shot saying, "I haven't had the flu for 5 years.
People tend to credit whatever they did or didn't do for a good result.
But I've never had a flu shot & I had the flu once - 39 years ago & never since, even after caring for family & friends with the flu & being exposed at work.

I’ve never had the flu jab.....my dad had it every year for the past 10 yrs ,and he never stopped sniffing and blowing his nose, and he had loads of colds !

 

[charry]

I believe this, which is why I’m over wearing a mask. Could I have a breakthrough case? Possibly. But having to go back to mask wearing will not be good for my mental well being. At all. So I’ll take my chances, thanks.

I agree with you carol

 

[Chris P Bacon]

I’ve never had the flu jab.....my dad had it every year for the past 10 yrs ,and he never stopped sniffing and blowing his nose, and he had loads of colds !

Well, I don't think that this is "the flu" because people never seemed to get so upset about just the flu. How about polio or smallpox? Were you vaccinated against those and if you were, have yo contracted either? Some people smoke cigarettes for 90 years and never get cancer but I'm not willing to take chances like that. And "the flu" doesn't spread worldwide as Covid has done. If you don't want to be vaccinated, up to you. You might not get it, then again, you might. I can't see into the future any better than you but given the chance to protect myself, I feel better knowing that I've done what I can to protect not only me but anyone else I may come into contact with or that you may come into contact with were you to come near to me.

 

[Brookswood]

I do not believe CNN, FOX News, MSNBC, etc. have much if any credibility. They have become merchants of outrage.

Here are Jim Lehrer's rules of Journalism If you don't know who Jim Lehrer was, look him up.

Jim Lehrer’s Rules of Journalism
I practice journalism in accordance with the following guidelines:

• Do nothing I cannot defend.
• Do not distort, lie, slant or hype.
• Do not falsify facts or make up quotes.
• Cover, write and present every story with the care I would want if the story
were about me.
• Assume there is at least one other side or version to every story.
• Assume the viewer is as smart and caring and good a person as I am.
• Assume the same about all people on whom I report.
• Assume everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
• Assume personal lives are a private matter until a legitimate turn in the
story mandates otherwise.
• Carefully separate opinion and analysis from straight news stories and
clearly label it as such.
• Do not use anonymous sources or blind quotes except on rare and
monumental occasions. No one should ever be allowed to attack another
anonymously.
• Do not broadcast profanity or the end result of violence unless it is an
integral and necessary part of the story and/or crucial to its understanding.
• Acknowledge that objectivity may be impossible but fairness never is.
• Journalists who are reckless with facts and reputations should be
disciplined by their employers.
• My viewers have a right to know what principles guide my work and the
process I use in their practice.
• I am not in the entertainment business.

-Jim Lehrer

https://ethics.utep.edu/images/Jim_Lehrer_Rules_of_Journalism.pdf

 

[Alligatorob]

Jim Lehrer's rules of Journalism

Very impressive, I guess that's pretty much out the window these days.

I however believe we are as much to blame as the media. The way they make money and stay in business is by having a good audience, and it seems we would rather have simple flashy headlines and sound bites than useful news. The only real way to fight this is to turn the TV or radio or whatever off. I try but am probably not as good at it as I should be.

 

[charry]

Well, I don't think that this is "the flu" because people never seemed to get so upset about just the flu. How about polio or smallpox? Were you vaccinated against those and if you were, have yo contracted either? Some people smoke cigarettes for 90 years and never get cancer but I'm not willing to take chances like that. And "the flu" doesn't spread worldwide as Covid has done. If you don't want to be vaccinated, up to you. You might not get it, then again, you might. I can't see into the future any better than you but given the chance to protect myself, I feel better knowing that I've done what I can to protect not only me but anyone else I may come into contact with or that you may come into contact with were you to come near to me.

Its just a personal opinion Chris ....
You have yours , and I have mine !!

P.s ....about protecting others !! Don’t preach me this.......
With the first lockdown 18months Ago, if people had abided by the restrictions then, we would NOT be in the situation that we are in now......

I don’t come into contact with hardly anyone, as my husband is housebound, making me housebound , and have been in this situation for 9yrs now , since his stroke ...

 

[Brookswood]

The big problem comparing the Covid vaccine to the flu vaccine, IMO, is that the Covid vaccine is not yet available to everybody. We have an entire population of children under 12 who can't get the vaccine at this time. Flu shots are usually available to school age kids and even pre-schoolers. (Get them or not, they are available. There is no choice for our under 12 kids regarding getting the Covid vaccine. ) The early versions of Covid were apparently not a significant problem as children did not get it or pass it along very easily. But, Delta seems to be a game changer. Children are getting it and in significantly more numbers. School is about to start, and so far nobody knows a good way to keep Delta from spreading in the under 12 yo school environment.

People can argue the pros and cons, rights and responsibilities all they want in regards to adults . If non vaccinated under 12 children get Covid thanks to unvaccinated adults who could get the vaccine but don't, there will be Heck to pay. Paper Bear will be angry and so will Mama Bear. It won't be pretty.

I hope I am terribly wrong. But, honestly, I don't think I am at this point. We will see what happens.

 

[squatting dog]

Well, I don't think that this is "the flu" because people never seemed to get so upset about just the flu. How about polio or smallpox? Were you vaccinated against those and if you were, have yo contracted either?

There's one HUGE difference between the polio and smallpox vaccine that you are overlooking...

The purpose of a vaccine is to inoculate the patient against being able to contract a particular disease. Foe instance, you get the polio vaccine to ensure you do not get polio. Same for smallpox.

I am not offering medical advice. You and your doctor should make the decision whether or not to get the vaccine. But it is essential that you understand that Dr. Fauci and the CDC are now on the record (as of today 4/13/21) stating that the vaccine does NOT prevent Covid.

The FDA flat out states that the vaccine is NOT APPROVED.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Okay, thanks for that info. Whatever is keeping vaccinated people from being infected at the same rates as they were isn’t due to magic, or at least I don’t think so. I’ll look for Dr Fauci’s and the CDC’s comments. I have my own theories about what I’ll find but for me, I’d rather trust what seems to be working than the advice of someone who has no experience in medicine. Vaccinated people seem to be getting infected less often and for me, that’s a good thing. The fewer cases there are, the better I think we all will be. Thanks for taking the time to consider what I wrote. I now will consider your words too. Enjoy the evening!

 

[squatting dog]

It's all good. However, I'd keep in mind that Dr. Anthony Fauci, is not a virologist, and Virology is a science.

Intelligent decisions on countermeasures require hard data, but doctors such as Dr.Fauci have been “scaring the hell out of people and watching curves based on projections based on meaningless numbers.” The most important fact about COVID-19, its true mortality rate, is the number who die of the virus divided by the number infected by it. No algorithms. Simple arithmetic. None of that for Fauci, who has taken up coronavirus prophecy.
Cheers.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

There's one HUGE difference between the polio and smallpox vaccine that you are overlooking...

The purpose of a vaccine is to inoculate the patient against being able to contract a particular disease. Foe instance, you get the polio vaccine to ensure you do not get polio. Same for smallpox.

I am not offering medical advice. You and your doctor should make the decision whether or not to get the vaccine. But it is essential that you understand that Dr. Fauci and the CDC are now on the record (as of today 4/13/21) stating that the vaccine does NOT prevent Covid.

The FDA flat out states that the vaccine is NOT APPROVED.

Much as I thought, the vaccine isn’t effective, if I understand what I read here (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/05/dr-...orse-amid-covid-delta-surge-unvaccinated.html) because a new, unplanned for variant has taken hold because there was/is a lag time between when the original vaccine was developed and it was able to be distributed.

This new delta strain that Fauci speaks of the vaccine offering no protection for developed after the original vaccine was developed and deployed. That doesn’t make the vaccine a failure, it make the vaccine obsolete becsuse too many people waited too long to get vaccinated. In the meantime, new vaccines are in the works but new strains may also be in the works as well because people are just too something or other to get vaccinated. I understand and accept the limitations and the causation for the lack of protection. But I do believe that the vaccine is effective against pre-delta variant versions.

I’d not be surprised if we see many more variants and that’s sad because people are so untrusting. That and so many armchair experts are saying things that just aren’t so. You believe what you want yo believe and I’ll believe what actually makes sense. Once a person has been fooled or tricked into believing something untrue, it’s nearly impossible to get them to become unfooled. This is so with me as well but the way I interpret the information I have or thst is shared with me, just doesn’t add up.

 

[win231]

Much as I thought, the vaccine isn’t effective, if I understand what I read here (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/05/dr-...orse-amid-covid-delta-surge-unvaccinated.html) because a new, unplanned for variant has taken hold because there was/is a lag time between when the original vaccine was developed and it was able to be distributed.

This new delta strain that Fauci speaks of the vaccine offering no protection for developed after the original vaccine was developed and deployed. That doesn’t make the vaccine a failure, it make the vaccine obsolete becsuse too many people waited too long to get vaccinated. In the meantime, new vaccines are in the works but new strains may also be in the works as well because people are just too something or other to get vaccinated. I understand and accept the limitations and the causation for the lack of protection. But I do believe that the vaccine is effective against pre-delta variant versions.

I’d not be surprised if we see many more variants and that’s sad because people are so untrusting. That and so many armchair experts are saying things that just aren’t so. You believe what you want yo believe and I’ll believe what actually makes sense. Once a person has been fooled or tricked into believing something untrue, it’s nearly impossible to get them to become unfooled. This is so with me as well but the way I interpret the information I have or thst is shared with me, just doesn’t add up.

You are very creative when it comes to blaming people for what medicine can't do.

 

[squatting dog]

Since I hear a lot about someone not wearing a mask leaves open the possibility of being asymptomatic and passing on the virus, I thought I'd investigate this a wee bit more. What I found was an Interesting study conducted in April of 2021. Briefly....
In conclusion, our study suggests that asymptomatic cases are unlikely to contribute substantially to the spread of SARS-CoV-2. COVID-19
The fact that we did not detect any laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 transmission from asymptomatic case-patients is in line with multiple studies.
This falls in line with the fact that there is yet to be documented asymptomatic transmission.

 

[Alligatorob]

The most important fact about COVID-19, its true mortality rate, is the number who die of the virus divided by the number infected by it. No algorithms. Simple arithmetic.

Absolutely, I would just add the rate with and without vaccine. We seem to have mostly divided up into the pro and anti vaccination factions, that is a shame. I think we all ought to be in the let's figure it out faction...

Of course the calculation isn't all simple arithmetic, you need to take into account the different reporting criteria and accuracy for Covid deaths, the different characteristics of the inoculated vs uninoculated population and so on. That takes a bit of epidemiological and statistical expertise and time and effort. I don't believe its the effort that keeps this from happening, the problem is it probably won't lead to a simple story and dramatic headlines. Neither of the polarized factions see a clear win in doing it.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

FDA approves Pfizer vaccine ​

 

[Butterfly]

I NEVER believe anything on CNN. Interestingly, the Conav-19 cases in hospitals have gone up to over 4,000 a week in our State. The interesting & what Dr's are trying to figure out. People that GOT both shots after 4 months or so they end up in the hospitals. They have beds in the halls. Not real bad cases of Conav-19 but they have breathing problems enough to put them in the hospitals.

I can attest to this as I got my shot in January. 4 months later I was in the hospital with Conav-19. They are trying to find out what's in the shots that are making people sick after 4 months.

There's one HUGE difference between the polio and smallpox vaccine that you are overlooking...

The purpose of a vaccine is to inoculate the patient against being able to contract a particular disease. Foe instance, you get the polio vaccine to ensure you do not get polio. Same for smallpox.

I am not offering medical advice. You and your doctor should make the decision whether or not to get the vaccine. But it is essential that you understand that Dr. Fauci and the CDC are now on the record (as of today 4/13/21) stating that the vaccine does NOT prevent Covid.

The FDA flat out states that the vaccine is NOT APPROVED.

post deleted.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

The FDA flat out states that the vaccine is NOT APPROVED.

@squatting dog You might want to take a look at my post #66. Things change FAST!

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Uh oh! This is awkward!
View attachment 179749

@Lara Thanks for not taking offense, Lara, as truly I meant none.

 

[squatting dog]

@squatting dog You might want to take a look at my post #66. Things change FAST!

 

[Chris P Bacon]

I don’t come into contact with hardly anyone, as my husband is housebound, making me housebound , and have been in this situation for 9yrs now , since his stroke ...

@charry That's unfortunate for the both of you but of course, until you shared that, I had no way of knowing. Are they no agencies that would at least look after your husband occasionally to give you some respite? Your well being might be at stake too if you can't move about yourself. Here in the US there are places that do care for people in situations like this but where you are, I have no clue. One day and someway, things will get better and vaccinations will likely be the least of your worries then. Things always tend to improve. I didn't mean to upset you. You sound like you have enough to be upset about as it is. If my opinion isn't yours, that's okay. It would be a boring world if it were always only light or always dark all the time. I hope life will improve for you sooner rather than later but I guarantee that it will improve in time. Namaste.

 

[Don M.]

The Pfzier vaccine was granted FDA approval this morning, and the Moderna and J&J vaccines are expected to receive FDA approval within the next 4 to 6 weeks.
Pfzier has already chosen a "name" for its vaccine....Comirnaty....and with FDA approval And a name, we can probably expect to see TV commercials soon. When/if the EUA expires for these vaccines, we can probably expect the prices to skyrocket. Anyone interested in getting the vaccines would probably be well advised to do so in the few months, before the drug companies begin to pad their profits.

 

[charry]

@charry That's unfortunate for the both of you but of course, until you shared that, I had no way of knowing. Are they no agencies that would at least look after your husband occasionally to give you some respite? Your well being might be at stake too if you can't move about yourself. Here in the US there are places that do care for people in situations like this but where you are, I have no clue. One day and someway, things will get better and vaccinations will likely be the least of your worries then. Things always tend to improve. I didn't mean to upset you. You sound like you have enough to be upset about as it is. If my opinion isn't yours, that's okay. It would be a boring world if it were always only light or always dark all the time. I hope life will improve for you sooner rather than later but I guarantee that it will improve in time. Namaste.

No offence taken Chris.......yes there are lots of volunteers and organisations and respite over here, but I prefer to look after my husband myself.......
We ve never been apart for 36yrs, he’s my soul mate ,
This has devastated us both, but that’s life I guess.......
Thankyou for your concern and care .......I appreciate it ......

 

[Brookswood]

https://www.newyorker.com/science/m...ou-already-had-a-breakthrough-covid-infection

The above link is to an article that explains how vaccines work to protect us from the suffering an infection may cause. They cannot guarantee no cell in your body will be invaded by the virus. They cannot guarantee a person will not get a mild case of the disease. But, they usually help the immune system fight the virus so the infections does not become powerful enough to badly hurt us. That is the goal. Not perfection, but to help our own body's immune system eliminate the infection before it becomes powerful enough to really hurt us. Or kill us.

Still, Rasmussen said, “When you’ve been immunized and get an ‘infection’ ”—she raised her hands in scare quotes—“or, I should say, when you test positive by P.C.R.—that doesn’t mean there’s a robust viral infection raging in your body. Even if some cells do get infected, other parts of the immune system spring into action and stop it from spreading.” She went on, “Is that an infection? That’s a philosophical question. Technically, some cells got infected and the virus started to replicate. But the immune system prevented you from getting sick and shedding copious amounts of virus that can go on to infect someone else.”

The immune system has multiple specialized units that can be deployed strategically and dynamically,” she said. “The virus has some tricks up its sleeve, but, compared to the human immune system, it doesn’t have as much at its disposal. It’s like ‘Lord of the Rings’ or ‘Troy’: one army usually kicks the other’s ass. If you’re vaccinated, your immune system is ready, it’s better equipped, and it usually kicks the virus’s ass.”

No vaccine is perfect and there are times when a vaccine will not help enough. Never let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

 

[Brookswood]

Since I hear a lot about someone not wearing a mask leaves open the possibility of being asymptomatic and passing on the virus, I thought I'd investigate this a wee bit more. What I found was an Interesting study conducted in April of 2021. Briefly....
In conclusion, our study suggests that asymptomatic cases are unlikely to contribute substantially to the spread of SARS-CoV-2. COVID-19
The fact that we did not detect any laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 transmission from asymptomatic case-patients is in line with multiple studies.
This falls in line with the fact that there is yet to be documented asymptomatic transmission.

Can you provide a link to this April 2021 study? I would like to see if it included the Delta variant.