What are the reasons some do not wear masks or will not be vaccinated?

Devi said:
But that's the thing — if they've had it (and the antibodies do prove it), there's no reason to get vaccinated. From what I've read, having had Covid-19 gives one what they call "natural immunity" which apparently is better than a vaccination.
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That's the only possible explanation for my experience with the flu.
I had the flu 38 years ago. After I recovered, I cared for several friends & family who had the flu. I also worked in places that had no sick pay, so employees who couldn't afford to stay home came to work sick. Some had the flu & they spent the whole day with their heads resting on their desks. I've never had the flu since (any strain) I've never had a flu shot. I doubt that's "Luck" or a "Miracle."
 

Jennina said:
Would you mind sharing the link where you got this info? I know someone who's had Covid and isn't vaccinated.
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Here are a couple of links:

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?
"Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry."
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762

A Victory for Natural Immunity and Sanity
https://spectator.org/a-victory-for-natural-immunity-and-sanity/

I also happen to be one of those people who almost never get sick. Haven't had a cold for over 40 years. I get the flu maybe every ... 18 years. Oh well.
 

Interesting points being made. I remember learning that milk maids seemed to be immune to smallpox because they had all contracted cowpox from the cows. Jenner used this idea to develop a vaccine (from vacca, the Latin word for cow) that was effective in immunising people against a deadly disease.

The trouble with natural immunity is that it requires you to have survived a particular disease. I assume that if you actually recovered from smallpox they you were relatively safe from it for many years. If you didn't survive, and many didn't, you never get it again. Covid is no different.

One aspect of viruses that has only recently come to light is that the disease disappears but the virus can still exist somewhere in the body and many years later it can again manifest as active disease. People who survived polio as children can find the disease returns decades later, chicken pox can return as shingles and viral tuberculosis can reactivate in old age as it did for my grandfather.

As a child I was immunised against polio and TB and these diseases are now nonexistent in Australia. I had chicken pox, like many children of my generation, and Hubby some years ago had the misfortune to develop shingles which is caused by the chicken pox virus. It isn't life threatening but can do serious nerve damage. A few years ago I decided that was a risk I didn't want to take so I asked my GP for the shingles vaccine.

Today most children are routinely immunised against diseases that I never heard of when my kids were young and for others like measles and mumps. We are yet to see what difference this makes to their old age but we must remember that immunology is moving forward all the time. There are no guarantees of 100% protection but when a disease if highly infectious, deadly for some and with long term debilitation for many more, vaccination is the best option we have.

Out of curiosity, how many people would refuse a tetanus shot for a serious puncture wound or rabies injections after a bite by a wild animal?
 
Warrigal said:
Interesting points being made. I remember learning that milk maids seemed to be immune to smallpox because they had all contracted cowpox from the cows. Jenner used this idea to develop a vaccine (from vacca, the Latin word for cow) that was effective in immunising people against a deadly disease.

The trouble with natural immunity is that it requires you to have survived a particular disease. I assume that if you actually recovered from smallpox they you were relatively safe from it for many years. If you didn't survive, and many didn't, you never get it again. Covid is no different.

One aspect of viruses that has only recently come to light is that the disease disappears but the virus can still exist somewhere in the body and many years later it can again manifest as active disease. People who survived polio as children can find the disease returns decades later, chicken pox can return as shingles and viral tuberculosis can reactivate in old age as it did for my grandfather.

As a child I was immunised against polio and TB and these diseases are now nonexistent in Australia. I had chicken pox, like many children of my generation, and Hubby some years ago had the misfortune to develop shingles which is caused by the chicken pox virus. It isn't life threatening but can do serious nerve damage. A few years ago I decided that was a risk I didn't want to take so I asked my GP for the shingles vaccine.

Today most children are routinely immunised against diseases that I never heard of when my kids were young and for others like measles and mumps. We are yet to see what difference this makes to their old age but we must remember that immunology is moving forward all the time. There are no guarantees of 100% protection but when a disease if highly infectious, deadly for some and with long term debilitation for many more, vaccination is the best option we have.

Out of curiosity, how many people would refuse a tetanus shot for a serious puncture wound or rabies injections after a bite by a wild animal?
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I've never had a tetanus shot. I've had several serious puncture wounds.
I've read up on Rabies because I feed Raccoons every night & needed to know the risks. Whether or not I chose Rabies shots would depend on how the animal was acting. An animal cannot transmit Rabies unless they're showing signs of Rabies; one sign being they're unable to eat.
 
Interesting, @Warrigal. Fair points. Here's something else [bolded for emphasis in original]:

Former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, who is a Pfizer board member, noted that “natural immunity” gained from a prior COVID-19 infection needs to be included in discussions about policies and mandates.​
​
“The balance of the evidence demonstrates that natural immunity confers a durable protection,” Gottlieb said during a Monday morning TV interview, referring to a landmark new preprint Israeli study that found prior COVID-19 infection confers much more protection against the virus than any vaccine.​
“It’s fair to conclude that,” he said.​

It looks like there's reason for hope in different ways.
 
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Warrigal said:
Interesting points being made. I remember learning that milk maids seemed to be immune to smallpox because they had all contracted cowpox from the cows. Jenner used this idea to develop a vaccine (from vacca, the Latin word for cow) that was effective in immunising people against a deadly disease.

The trouble with natural immunity is that it requires you to have survived a particular disease. I assume that if you actually recovered from smallpox they you were relatively safe from it for many years. If you didn't survive, and many didn't, you never get it again. Covid is no different.

One aspect of viruses that has only recently come to light is that the disease disappears but the virus can still exist somewhere in the body and many years later it can again manifest as active disease. People who survived polio as children can find the disease returns decades later, chicken pox can return as shingles and viral tuberculosis can reactivate in old age as it did for my grandfather.

As a child I was immunised against polio and TB and these diseases are now nonexistent in Australia. I had chicken pox, like many children of my generation, and Hubby some years ago had the misfortune to develop shingles which is caused by the chicken pox virus. It isn't life threatening but can do serious nerve damage. A few years ago I decided that was a risk I didn't want to take so I asked my GP for the shingles vaccine.

Today most children are routinely immunised against diseases that I never heard of when my kids were young and for others like measles and mumps. We are yet to see what difference this makes to their old age but we must remember that immunology is moving forward all the time. There are no guarantees of 100% protection but when a disease if highly infectious, deadly for some and with long term debilitation for many more, vaccination is the best option we have.

Out of curiosity, how many people would refuse a tetanus shot for a serious puncture wound or rabies injections after a bite by a wild animal?
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Most people in the USA get a tetanus shot routinely every, I think, ten years. As for rabies, one of my great grandfathers died of rabies before the shots were available so yup, I’d get the shots which are very painful as I understand it.
 
win231 said:
I've never had a tetanus shot. I've had several serious puncture wounds.
I've read up on Rabies because I feed Raccoons every night & needed to know the risks. Whether or not I chose Rabies shots would depend on how the animal was acting. An animal cannot transmit Rabies unless they're showing signs of Rabies; one sign being they're unable to eat.
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I thought it was unable to drink. It’s not puncture wounds so much as what you’ve been punctured by is my understanding. The tetanus shot prevents lockjaw.
 
Tetanus pathogens live in soil. A surface wound can be easily washed out but a deep puncture wound can introduce tetanus which thrives in the absence of oxygen. Rusty garden tools, a bite from a canine tooth or an accident with a nail gun can all result in tetanus infection. One of my great uncles, who was a farm worker, died of tetanus at the age of 22. His death certificate says he died of lockjaw. Sadly, there was no information about his parents on the certificate because he couldn't speak and no-one in that country town knew very much about him. A lonely and painful death.
 
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Sunny said:
Ye gads, what is so awful about a booster shot? One more bit of fear-inspiring nonsense? Many of the vaccines for other diseases require boosters. Most of us get them as required; I've never heard of anyone making a big stink about it.

If they originally thought, or at least hoped, that the vaccine alone would be enough, that masks would no longer be necessary, etc,., it's because this virus is so new that we are largely fighting it blindly. We have a vaccine that seems to work amazingly well, so far. That's good. It doesn't confer 100% lifelong immunity? That's not so good, but we've got to do the best we can with what we've got.
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When it comes to people's health and their decision, it is not nonsense. Some can say taking the vaccine and booster shot is nonsense. When it comes to my health and what is best for ME - I can make a HUGE PILE OF STINK :ROFLMAO: The vaccine work well for some but not all people. As I say, people do what is best for them and their health.
 
win231 said:
As I suspected from the beginning, the "Get vaccinated = no mask" was a ploy to get everyone vaccinated to sell more vaccines - much like the other nonsensical vaccine incentives like free tacos, free rides on a ferris wheel & cash drawings.
A doctor I saw before Covid vaccines were available said to me, "Well, when we're all vaccinated, we can get rid of these silly masks."
I just laughed.
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Win - One day in the future, someone will be coming out with a book and a movie about Covid-19 and Vaccines. I would not doubt if they both are already in the making. This will be someone that...well, I will stop there. We all do what is best for us.
 
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win231 said:
That's the only possible explanation for my experience with the flu.
I had the flu 38 years ago. After I recovered, I cared for several friends & family who had the flu. I also worked in places that had no sick pay, so employees who couldn't afford to stay home came to work sick. Some had the flu & they spent the whole day with their heads resting on their desks. I've never had the flu since (any strain) I've never had a flu shot. I doubt that's "Luck" or a "Miracle."
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I had the flu shot (over 30 years ago) and it literally gave me the flu - I was sick for several days. I vowed never to take it again. If Covid was out back then, I have no doubt they would have dx me with Covid-19. Same here, I have worked in places with people coming to work with the flu - I haven't had it thus far. But one thing I can say about the flu vaccine, you know that there is a strain of the flu in the vaccine to help fight off the flu - but Covid vaccine??
 
Ladybj said:
I had the flu shot (over 30 years ago) and it literally gave me the flu - I was sick for several days. I vowed never to take it again. If Covid was out back then, I have no doubt they would have dx me with Covid-19. Same here, I have worked in places with people coming to work with the flu - I haven't had it thus far. But one thing I can say about the flu vaccine, you know that there is a strain of the flu in the vaccine to help fight off the flu - but Covid vaccine??
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My sister also stopped getting flu shots, even though her doctor strongly advised getting it "Because you're diabetic."
But after being sick at home for 2 weeks after each flu shot, she said, "Screw this."
We're constantly programmed to listen to our doctors without thinking.
 
Flu shots never bothered me. But, I had got out of the habit of getting them. I had not had one for years and then the grandkids arrived and they are hard to avoid. :) For the first time in over a decade I was sick with the flu for a good week. I felt terrible. After that happened, about five years ago, I started getting the flu shots. So far, no more flu.

Thankfully, the yearly flu is not nearly as fatal as Covid.
 
win231 said:
My sister also stopped getting flu shots, even though her doctor strongly advised getting it "Because you're diabetic."
But after being sick at home for 2 weeks after each flu shot, she said, "Screw this."
We're constantly programmed to listen to our doctors without thinking.
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Its good your sister know her body better than her doctor. I was told I had some type of ailment..to put it mildly but that was not the case. Thank goodness, I know my body better than a doctor. I would have been put one some HORRIBLE medication if I would have followed doctors orders and I am doing just fine...and that was many years ago.
 
Brookswood said:
Flu shots never bothered me. But, I had got out of the habit of getting them. I had not had one for years and then the grandkids arrived and they are hard to avoid. :) For the first time in over a decade I was sick with the flu for a good week. I felt terrible. After that happened, about five years ago, I started getting the flu shots. So far, no more flu.

Thankfully, the yearly flu is not nearly as fatal as Covid.
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For some people it is. Depends on your immune system. The flu can have you down and out for days..just as Covid. JMO but I think they go hand in hand. Covid took over..therefore people are not dx with the flu or pneumonia anymore - its Covid. If anyone around you cough or sneeze.. automatically, they think do they have Covid...:rolleyes::oops:
 
Ladybj said:
I had the flu shot (over 30 years ago) and it literally gave me the flu - I was sick for several days. I vowed never to take it again. If Covid was out back then, I have no doubt they would have dx me with Covid-19. Same here, I have worked in places with people coming to work with the flu - I haven't had it thus far. But one thing I can say about the flu vaccine, you know that there is a strain of the flu in the vaccine to help fight off the flu - but Covid vaccine??
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I had the flu shot (over 30 years ago) and it literally gave me the flu says Ladybj
That is what it is supposed to do, it gives the flu, then builds up your immunity. Have you considered you may be also a carrier?
 
Shero said:
I had the flu shot (over 30 years ago) and it literally gave me the flu says Ladybj
That is what it is supposed to do, it gives the flu, then builds up your immunity. Have you considered you may be also a carrier?
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That I do understand.. I WILL NOT take the flu shot again. Does the Covid vaccine have the virus and give people Covid? Is that what it is suppose to do....build up your immunity against Covid? I don't think I am a carrier. Have not passed the flu on to anyone. No one in my family nor friends contacted the flu.
 
Brookswood said:
Flu shots never bothered me. But, I had got out of the habit of getting them. I had not had one for years and then the grandkids arrived and they are hard to avoid. :) For the first time in over a decade I was sick with the flu for a good week. I felt terrible. After that happened, about five years ago, I started getting the flu shots. So far, no more flu.

Thankfully, the yearly flu is not nearly as fatal as Covid.
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I didn't bother with influenza vaccines when I was younger. I probably had only come down with the 'flu twice before in my life - once as a child and once as an adult. I usually had heavy colds roughly twice a year and the two infections are very different.

I am old now and continuously getting older. 'Flu often comes with pneumonia and the combination of both together can be deadly for seniors. A dear friend of mine who was very fit for his age died this way and that was when I decided to follow my doctor's advice. I now front up for 'flu and pneumonia vaccinations when he tells me it is time.

One point about vaccines. Viruses mutate and older vaccines are less effective over time. Also, sometimes a vaccine developed for a particular strain won't work for a different version of a disease. I'm not sure what the situation is today but hepatitis is a case in point. I was immunised against Hep A before travelling overseas. The disease is carried by flies and deposited on food. Sometimes called the "dirty hand" disease because people who don't wash their hands after going to the toilet can spread it. It can exist in tap water which is why we avoided salads and iced drinks. Hep C was a very different disease. It is contracted via the blood and other bodily fluids. Dirty needles and unprotected sex is the main method of transmission. At the time of our travels there was no vaccine for Hep C but I knew that we were safe unless we needed a blood transfusion.
 
Ladybj said:
Win - One day in the future, someone will be coming out with a book and a movie about Covid-19 and Vaccines. I would not doubt if they both are already in the making. This will be someone that...well, I will stop there. We all do what is best for us.
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There are already movies on a run away virus 😂. I refuse to watch any of them
 
Ladybj said:
For some people it is. Depends on your immune system. The flu can have you down and out for days..just as Covid. JMO but I think they go hand in hand. Covid took over..therefore people are not dx with the flu or pneumonia anymore - its Covid. If anyone around you cough or sneeze.. automatically, they think do they have Covid...:rolleyes::oops:
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My husband recently had non Covid pneumonia and was diagnoses with it. He had it for weeks, probably still does.
 
Devi said:
Here are a couple of links:

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?
"Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry."
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762

A Victory for Natural Immunity and Sanity
https://spectator.org/a-victory-for-natural-immunity-and-sanity/

I also happen to be one of those people who almost never get sick. Haven't had a cold for over 40 years. I get the flu maybe every ... 18 years. Oh well.
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Thanks for sending the links. Please note this is not an attack on you as a person. If anything, it's an attack on the articles.

1) Both Israel National News (centrist) and Spectator (right wing) claim immunity is better than vaccination.

2) Israel National News says Health Ministry experts are divided on the issue.

3) Paul Kengor (Spectator writer) who is not a medical expert and whose seeming hatred for vaxxers is palpable is certain natural immunity is better than vaccination.

4) Both articles failed to mention a caveat: that to get natural immunity you have to be infected by the virus and in the process you could die or have the virus wreak havoc in your system.

5) Kengor inadvertently weakened his position when he talked about his friend who had Covid.

"Tom had a terrible bout of COVID. I feared he would die. He was lucky to get through it,"

His friend ALMOST DIED and he was LUCKY to have survived. No mention of what the virus did to his body but it was a severe case so it's safe to assume the virus did some damage --- usually it's the lungs and the heart. Now, he has natural immunity. Yay!

6) WHO's chief scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan explains why vaccines are recommended for those who have had the virus:

"After getting COVID, people do get an immune response, but this varies from person to person and it depends on whether you had a mild infection or whether you had more severe infection. And we know from many studies now that if you've had a very mild or asymptomatic infection, then many people may have very low levels of antibodies that they form. So this is why we still recommend that even if you've had COVID infection, that you should go ahead and take the vaccination when it's available to you, because the vaccine then serves as a boost to the immune system

I heard a good analogy for vaccines and Covid. Vaccines are like missiles with specific targets. It tells your cells to produce certain proteins that stimulate your immune system to produce antibodies. The Covid virus however is like a bomb going off in your immune system. Anything goes.

PS Like you, I don't get sick often. I don't think I've ever had the flu.
 

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