Who are we? (The thread on religion, that Lennon's "Imagine" receives not a single "Like"!)

CAKCy said:
I "insist" on the sinner question. I don't think that cherry picking the scripture would be approved by the majority of the believers. (That does not mean that I do not admire your wisdom in practicing the essence/philosophy of the scripture and leaving out whatever was included for "control of the masses" purposes.

I don't disagree with your explanation of the reasons that brought the Berlin wall down. I brought it as an example of how the "impossible" can happen, given enough time for the circumstances to mature.

"Never say never" applies here very well. The same could happen with Lennon's dream...
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Why do you "insist" on the sinner question? Expand please.
 

Sunny said:
It's strange how some of the worst people produce beautiful, inspiring works. Many artists and writers were clearly nuts, and not all the musicians were saints either. Wagner, for instance, was pretty much of a Nazi in his beliefs. He was cruel and antisemtic. And yet, his Liebestod was one of the most exquisite pieces of music ever written. I've never understood how such horrible people could produce something so beautiful.
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The artistic capability of a person does not depend directly on their character or actions. We have numberless examples of masterpieces created by "monsters". Maybe the creative part of the soul remains intact, despite a person's character.
 
Shero said:
Why do you "insist" on the sinner question? Expand please.
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Simply because too many believers I've met consider that the scripture should be taken as a whole and even interpreted literally. Those who choose to doubt parts of the scripture or cherry pick, wisely, what makes sense or not are inevitable considered by the former kind as sinners.
 

oldiebutgoody said:
According to what I've read online Mr Lennon's networth was $200 M rather than $800 M. He donated much $ to charitable causes though I could not get a sum total of the amount he gave.
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Despite Lennon's worth (or what he did with his money) I'm chasing the message, the dream without paying any attention where that came from.
 
CAKCy said:
Simply because too many believers I've met consider that the scripture should be taken as a whole and even interpreted literally. Those who choose to doubt parts of the scripture or cherry pick, wisely, what makes sense or not are inevitable considered by the former kind as sinners.
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There are many "scriptures" written and in my humble opinion, none should be taken literally. That is not to say I denounce those who do so. I have a problem believing any of them are authentic because too many have had a hand in writing them.
 
Nathan said:
The term "socialism" is used nowadays as a slur, designed to be divisive by people who really don't know much about economic systems. The U.S. is far from becoming "Socialist", but recently barely steered away from becoming Fascist. I predict that someday the consolidation of power by the rich oligarchs and corporations will be complete, and what was a middle class in the U.S will be mostly working poor.
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With the risk of entering the forbidden "politics zone" (and my apologies to Matrix for that), I see the U.S. like a huge boat turning slowly towards a more humane Socialist state. I don't expect the achievements and movement of Sen. Sanders to die out soon and the meteoric climb of politicians like AOC show that many Americans are hungry for a more humane environment.

Capitalism is not dead yet, but I think that it's losing ground, especially with the younger generations.
 
Shero said:
There are many "scriptures" written and in my humble opinion, none should be taken literally. That is not to say I denounce those who do so. I have a problem believing any of them are authentic because too many have had a hand in writing them.
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Then... I guess you are a "sinner" too! :)

Many a believer are of the opinion that the scripture is God given and as such is infallible. If one dares to mention that the "Holy Bible" was put together by men for very specific purposes and with many other scriptures left out for very specific reasons one is considered blasphemous.
 
Shero said:
I sincerely hope this offends no one: I love the music and lyrics of the song imagine, but I feel it is an unattainable "dream". It is one thing to sit down and write a song, a poem, an essay about how the world should be. That is idealism, not realism.
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One's opinion is one's right and should not be offending to anyone, especially if no-one is attacked personally. I disagree with your feeling about the dream being unattainable. If one considers Europe of today Vs Europe of 100 years ago, one can see dreams coming true and idealism becoming reality.
 
Pepper said:
"Imagine" is the song I picked to dance with my son at his wedding 7 years ago because I love it so much, want my son to love it (he does), and it's easy to dance to.
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I won't comment on the dancing part. Was never much of a dancer! :)
Being a "dreamer" is what one day will help change the world.
 
Justice for all, both big and small
Short and tall, for rich and for poor
We won't go away until we've had our say
It's the price that we pay for what we stand for

Freedom to speak what's on our minds
And to express what's in our heart
To honor each other in all that we do
Justice for me...and justice for you
 
JimBob1952 said:
Fascism is a political system, just as democracy is a political system. Capitalism and socialism are economic systems. One thing fascism has in common with socialism is government ownership of the means of production.

"Fascism is generally defined as a political movement that embraces far-right nationalism and the forceful suppression of any opposition, all overseen by an authoritarian government. Fascists strongly oppose Marxism, liberalism and democracy, and believe the state takes precedence over individual interests. They favor centralized rule, often a single party or leader, and embrace the idea of a national rebirth, a new greatness for their country. Economic self-sufficiency is prized, often through state-controlled companies." Source: CBS News
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For starters: Socialism should not be confused with Communism. Government ownership of the means of production is part of Communism political/economic system.

In the case of Socialism there is a central government to coordinate the means of production and the production itself but it does not own them.

Socialism is the involvement and ownership of the means of production by the producers themselves (e.g. Co-Op).

What's wrong with Fascism/Nazism is the fact that the Nation is considered to be an island on the planet without paying too much attention to what's happening in the rest of the world.
 
Forerunner said:
Justice for all, both big and small
Short and tall, for rich and for poor
We won't go away until we've had our say
It's the price that we pay for what we stand for

Freedom to speak what's on our minds
And to express what's in our heart
To honor each other in all that we do
Justice for me...and justice for you
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Until such day that there won't be "rich and poor"....
 
Shero said:
“WE HAVE CALCIUM IN OUR BONES, IRON IN OUR VEINS, CARBON IN OUR SOULS, AND NITROGEN IN OUR BRAINS. 93 PERCENT STARDUST, WITH SOULS MADE OF FLAMES, WE ARE ALL JUST STARS THAT HAVE PEOPLE NAMES.”
(Nikita Gill)
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There will be a day that we will recognize that money is not part of the recipe...
 
CAKCy said:
Then... I guess you are a "sinner" too! :)

Many a believer are of the opinion that the scripture is God given and as such is infallible. If one dares to mention that the "Holy Bible" was put together by men for very specific purposes and with many other scriptures left out for very specific reasons one is considered blasphemous.
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I guess so! I won't lose any sleep over it :)
 
CAKCy said:
With the risk of entering the forbidden "politics zone" (and my apologies to Matrix for that), I see the U.S. like a huge boat turning slowly towards a more humane Socialist state. I don't expect the achievements and movement of Sen. Sanders to die out soon and the meteoric climb of politicians like AOC show that many Americans are hungry for a more humane environment.

Capitalism is not dead yet, but I think that it's losing ground, especially with the younger generations.
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For sure there is a hunger for more value from the current economy. Capitalism keeps the Worldwide economy going, the Chinese are masters at Capitalism, despite their Communist political structure. I think a lot of middle class people would like to see more benefit from their labor go to their pockets, rather than stockholders and the uber rich. Capitalism may have to evolve, in order to avoid disenchantment and rejection.
 
Nathan said:
For sure there is a hunger for more value from the current economy. Capitalism keeps the Worldwide economy going, the Chinese are masters at Capitalism, despite their Communist political structure. I think a lot of middle class people would like to see more benefit from their labor go to their pockets, rather than stockholders and the uber rich. Capitalism may have to evolve, in order to avoid disenchantment and rejection.
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Capitalism keeps the Worldwide economy going for the rich.

A "fun" fact: During the world economic crisis of 2007/8 and later, Rolls Royce (the luxury car manufacturer) had record profits for 6 years in a row. Everybody was getting poorer and the rich were getting richer!

Rolls-Royce Holdings Gross Profit 2006-2020 | RYCEY | MacroTrends
 
CAKCy said:
For starters: Socialism should not be confused with Communism. Government ownership of the means of production is part of Communism political/economic system.

In the case of Socialism there is a central government to coordinate the means of production and the production itself but it does not own them.

Socialism is the involvement and ownership of the means of production by the producers themselves (e.g. Co-Op).

What's wrong with Fascism/Nazism is the fact that the Nation is considered to be an island on the planet without paying too much attention to what's happening in the rest of the world.
Click to expand...
 
We can point to many successful countries that have embraced democratic capitalism. Does anybody know of a successful country that has embraced democratic socialism?
 
JimBob1952 said:
We can point to many successful countries that have embraced democratic capitalism. Does anybody know of a successful country that has embraced democratic socialism?
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I'm not sure that there is any country that embraces pure democratic capitalism. In all countries where capitalism/free market is the main economic system (even in the US) bits and pieces of socialism are all over the place e.g. welfare programs, regulated minimum wage etc.

In Scandinavian countries that apply a form of democratic socialism (extremely high taxation, affordable healthcare and free education etc.) the economic system is a hybrid between capitalism and socialism with special emphasis given on the well being of all the people of the country.

So the answer is: You won't find any countries that embrace any of the two systems in its pure form.
 
CAKCy said:
Capitalism keeps the Worldwide economy going for the rich.

A "fun" fact: During the world economic crisis of 2007/8 and later, Rolls Royce (the luxury car manufacturer) had record profits for 6 years in a row. Everybody was getting poorer and the rich were getting richer!

Rolls-Royce Holdings Gross Profit 2006-2020 | RYCEY | MacroTrends
Click to expand...

Here's a "fun fact": Rolls Royce hasn't made cars since 2003. BMW owns the Rolls Royce brand. The company (Rolls Royce) makes jet engines and other industrial products.

That would make you, well, wrong again.
 

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