Religion: The views of an agnostic

Shero said:
Mon ami, you say “No, a Ferrari had a designer and a creator.” You have answered the most important question of all time CAKCy .

The universe also has a designer and creator, c'est - God.
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Have you finished your fish and came back to continue punching? :)

I respect your belief and I won't argue with it. :)
 

CAKCy said:
Everything is accidental or sporadic in nature unless a logic explanation exists about it. I don't think this is a leap of any sort. People over the ages tried to attribute the unknown to a God (the Sun is warm and bright, therefore the Sun is a God). The progress of science has proven that the Sun, the moon, the lightning etc. are not Gods or Gods' creations but nothing more than natural phenomena. I believe that at some point this will happen with the last of the Mohicans too. Science will progress to the point of explaining everything there is to explain.

But... do you agree that we don't have common ground to continue with this debate? Logic Vs Faith don't have much in common, do they?
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Mind Blown 🎆

Carefully read your reply.

On one hand you state, "Everything is accidental or sporadic in nature unless a logic[al] explanation exists..." in the next breath you state, "Science will progress to the point of explaining everything there is to explain." in which case nothing could be sporadic or accidental, which would negate your ideology mentioned in past posts.

Oh CAKCy, I'm enjoying our conversation much too much (I hope you are too) to dismiss it so quickly.
 
CAKCy said:
...The progress of science has proven that the Sun, the moon, the lightning etc. are not Gods or Gods' creations but nothing more than natural phenomena. ...
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The Maker designed the natural phenomena into the universe, world, etc.
 

CAKCy said:
Have you finished your fish and came back to continue punching? :)

I respect your belief and I won't argue with it. :)
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No, no, argue, but you won't win, we can find some common ground though. The fish was great, I ate too much and had to have a nap. Had you come and brought some baklava (my favourite sweet), you would have sat at the head of the table!
 
Gardenlover said:
Mind Blown 🎆

Carefully read your reply.

On one hand you state, "Everything is accidental or sporadic in nature unless a logic[al] explanation exists..." in the next breath you state, "Science will progress to the point of explaining everything there is to explain." in which case nothing could be sporadic or accidental, which would negate your ideology mentioned in past posts.

Oh CAKCy, I'm enjoying our conversation much too much (I hope you are too) to dismiss it so quickly.
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We cannot have a conversation with your mind blown!

There is no negation where you see one. Science has a long way to go. Everything not explained by science, yet, is accidental or sporadic in nature. For instance, the motion of subatomic particles is considered random and unpredictable until science will be in a position to predict them. UFOs will remain unidentified (and sporadic in nature) unless a logical explanation is given. We are still in the weekend. Wait until Monday....

Keep the conversation going until it becomes boring and too circular! :)
 
Gardenlover said:
The Maker designed the natural phenomena into the universe, world, etc.
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You keep referring to the Maker without offering any proof other than your faith. What if I told you that Trump designed the natural phenomena into the universe, world etc. because he knows better than his generals and only he could fix it?

(Matrix don't kill me please....)
 
Shero said:
No, no, argue, but you won't win, we can find some common ground though. The fish was great, I ate too much and had to have a nap. Had you come and brought some baklava (my favourite sweet), you would have sat at the head of the table!
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Now you tell me! Thanks a lot..... friend!

We won't find common ground other than mutual respect for each other. Logic and faith have no common ground.
 
CAKCy said:
We cannot have a conversation with your mind blown!

There is no negation where you see one. Science has a long way to go. Everything not explained by science, yet, is accidental or sporadic in nature. For instance, the motion of subatomic particles is considered random and unpredictable until science will be in a position to predict them. UFOs will remain unidentified (and sporadic in nature) unless a logical explanation is given. We are still in the weekend. Wait until Monday....

Keep the conversation going until it becomes boring and too circular! :)
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I enjoy your manner of conversation. :)

It seems to me science is your god.

Speaking of the weekend and waiting until Monday, brings to mind a topic for another thread, which would be on "Time."

I'm out and about for a bit, but shall return.
 
Gardenlover said:
I enjoy your manner of conversation. :)

It seems to me science is your god.

Speaking of the weekend and waiting until Monday, brings to mind a topic for another thread, which would be on "Time."

I'm out and about for a bit, but shall return.
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If you read my OP again you will see that I went through the process of being horrified that Science is my God. :)
 
CAKCy said:
You keep referring to the Maker without offering any proof other than your faith. What if I told you that Trump designed the natural phenomena into the universe, world etc. because he knows better than his generals and only he could fix it?

(Matrix don't kill me please....)
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The proof is all around us - cause and effect, action and reaction. It all shouts loudly of a designer. Would you really try to debate that there is no design to the universe? Design equates to a creator.
 
Gardenlover said:
The proof is all around us - cause and effect, action and reaction. It all shouts loudly of a designer. Would you really try to debate that there is no design to the universe? Design equates to a creator.
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Yes, I would try to debate that. Based on the fact that random birth or death of just about anything cannot be part of a design.
 
CAKCy said:
My friend, keep in mind that for the great majority of believers, God and Religion is their support system to cope with the unknown. Especially the fearsome end.
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And you know this how? Personal experience? IMO this is an old, tired chestnut.
If coping with the unknown is so troublesome to humanity, how do atheists and agnostics cope?
 
CAKCy said:
Now you tell me! Thanks a lot..... friend!

We won't find common ground other than mutual respect for each other. Logic and faith have no common ground.
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Mutual respect is the key to any interaction, but do not assume I am not also logical. As second mate on a boat, my husband and I have to be, but also hope faith will steer our logic. Now I am off to play a game of chess and hope this time he does not win. Bonne nuit!
 
CAKCy said:
We won't find common ground other than mutual respect for each other. Logic and faith have no common ground.
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I don't agree with the "no common ground" part. I suspect you both believe in a lot of the morals we abide by, not killing or raping people for example. What you see as your foundations for those beliefs may vary, but the result is the same.

I am no expert on religion but it seems to me if you take God's existence as fact then much of religion does become logical. And science is full of "laws" we accept as fact when they are not provable beyond any doubt except in being consistent with observation. Evolution, thermodynamics, even gravity are examples. I come down on the science side of this, but can understand where religion is coming from.
 
Warrigal said:
And you know this how? Personal experience? IMO this is an old, tired chestnut.
If coping with the unknown is so troublesome to humanity, how do atheists and agnostics cope?
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By observing older generations and reading through history of humanity. What could not be explained or what created fear to humans was automatically called a God or a God's action. Hope was found where none existed.

Ha! Talking about myself .... I don't do so well coping with the unknown, especially with the inevitable end. It would be nice if my logic wasn't so stubborn and allowed me some rest, thinking that I will continue my journey in a better place.
 

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