fuzzybuddy
SF VIP
- Location
- The Sticks, Northeast PA.
Is it me, or does the withdrawal from Afghanistan feel like a replay of the last days of South Vietnam?
De ja vu? Vietnam all over again?
- Thread starter fuzzybuddy
- Start date
CAKCy
Member
- Location
- Cyprus, East Mediterranean
It's not you. It is almost an identical replay with different actors.
Knight
Well-known Member
By Bernard Weinraub Special to The New York Times
March 29, 1975
The abandonment of hundreds of artillery pieces, trucks, planes, mortars, tanks, armored personnel carriers, rifles and ammunition—coupled with the rapid retreat of army units—is viewed by Vietnamese and Western sources as a stunning and, quite possibly irreversible military and psychological blow for South Vietnam.
A senior Western official, who has spent more than a decade in South Vietnam, said today: “These losses are very, very, very considerable. It's a catastrophic loss.”
Another informed Western source said: “We've made no attempt to quantify the loss, but it's staggering. The equipment has not been saved at all and we're facing a devastating failure.”
https://www.nytimes.com/1975/03/29/archives/arms-left-by-us-loss-by-saigon-force-called-catastrophic-1billion.html#:~:text=One highly reliable Vietnamese source said that in,81‐mm. mortars, 105‐mm. howitzers, rockets, generators and trucks.
I think this article could easily be used to describe what took place in Afghanistan. Just need to add in sensitive information & new technology.
March 29, 1975
The abandonment of hundreds of artillery pieces, trucks, planes, mortars, tanks, armored personnel carriers, rifles and ammunition—coupled with the rapid retreat of army units—is viewed by Vietnamese and Western sources as a stunning and, quite possibly irreversible military and psychological blow for South Vietnam.
A senior Western official, who has spent more than a decade in South Vietnam, said today: “These losses are very, very, very considerable. It's a catastrophic loss.”
Another informed Western source said: “We've made no attempt to quantify the loss, but it's staggering. The equipment has not been saved at all and we're facing a devastating failure.”
https://www.nytimes.com/1975/03/29/archives/arms-left-by-us-loss-by-saigon-force-called-catastrophic-1billion.html#:~:text=One highly reliable Vietnamese source said that in,81‐mm. mortars, 105‐mm. howitzers, rockets, generators and trucks.
I think this article could easily be used to describe what took place in Afghanistan. Just need to add in sensitive information & new technology.
cdestroyer
Member
the abandonment of hundreds of artillery pieces, trucks, planes etc as above is nothing new. at the end of wwii my dad was at a french port loading equipment to be returned to the states. They were all given orders to stop loading and to dispose of the equipment so they loaded the vehicles full of stuff and drove them off the end of the pier.........the reason? the american automobile manufacturers comlained that if those surplus military vehicles came back then they would be sold to the civilians and the car makers would not be able to sell new cars!!
fmdog44
Well-known Member
- Location
- Houston, Texas
Trying "nation building" as it is called failed every time. America has long held the notion we can make all peoples white god fearing Christians. Yet looking at all the nationalities here we see them bringing the culture adding it to ours not blending it in to ours. It is the foundation of our democracy yet we have so much resistance to no-whites coming in. What some don't grasp is likes attract. Look at early cities like New York when immigrants poured in by the thousands. They all huddled together as one would expect.
There was never a plan in Viet Nam and same for Afghanistan so we just kept pouring money in to them. Trying to ram one nation's morals and norms on to other cultures never works anywhere. Look at Russia and Germany in Europe as they simply killed everyone that disagreed with them. That did not work either.
There was never a plan in Viet Nam and same for Afghanistan so we just kept pouring money in to them. Trying to ram one nation's morals and norms on to other cultures never works anywhere. Look at Russia and Germany in Europe as they simply killed everyone that disagreed with them. That did not work either.
RunRabbitRun
New Member
- Location
- Woke World
Ah, but it was quite profitable for some.
Dwight D. Eisenhower:
- - - - - - -
Dwight D. Eisenhower:
https://teachingamericanhistory.org...e-origins-of-the-military-industrial-complex/
- - - - - - -
Military Contractor CACI Says Afghanistan Withdrawal Is Hurting Its Profits. It's Funding a Pro-War Think Tank.
https://inthesetimes.com/article/military-contractor-caci-international-weapons-militaryoldiebutgoody
Senior Member
The two withdrawals are nowhere alike. Americans and the South Vietnamese who betrayed their country were shot at by Viet Cong patriots seeking to protect their country from the imperialists. By contrast the Taliban allowed 124,000 traitors and domestic terrorists to flee peaceably. They did not shoot at them nor at the colonialist invaders. Yes, there was one bomb attack but it was not done by Talibani forces. Contrary to the lies and slander by the right wing media (especially the Fox network) President Biden deserves the Nobel Prize for saving so many lives.
Thus, the two retreats by the imperialistic invaders were as different as night is from day.
CAKCy
Member
- Location
- Cyprus, East Mediterranean
oldiebutgoody
Senior Member
I guess it depends on who you want to believe:
"It was a mess."
While the evacuation in Kabul was ordered, by contrast at the US Embassy in Nam, " From time to time, shots rang out from below, where thousands of Vietnamese milled about angrily in the embassy courtyard. Other Vietnamese were already rampaging through the lower floors of the six-story building, trying to make their way up tear-gas-filled stairwells. "
Remember this photo:
Marines used rifles to try to keep Vietnamese traitors from escaping. But some wouldn't accept that they were not welcomed:
I checked but could not find any data on how many died trying to escape prosecution for their treason.
helicopter destroyed by enemy fire during evacuation:
While the Taliban stood by and allowed the evacuation, the patriotic Vietnamese took action: "Civilians, nurses, volunteers, and Air Force personnel would fly into Saigon's Tan Son Nhut Air Base under enemy fire with cargo and civilian aircraft and evacuate as many orphans as possible during the Fall Of Saigon. One aircraft crashed or was shot down killing 138"
THE PTSD GENERATION VIETNAM : THE FALL OF SAIGON (gotmysecondwind.blogspot.com)
Vietnam is not landlocked and the majority of traitors who escaped went by sea: "In fishing boats and barges, homemade rafts and sampans, they sailed by the thousands out to sea, hoping to make it to the 40 U.S. warships beckoning on the horizon" with many dying at sea as boats flipped or were struck by bullets shot at them by the patriotic Vietnamese forces. The total number is unknown to this day.
Americans protested granting asylum to Vietnamese:
Today people of certain political viewpoints protested open borders on the grounds that such people take away jobs from Americans, that they cost taxpayers untold billions, that they bring strange practices into our society thereby corrupting its stability, and that many are criminals seeking to avoid prosecution. We hear no such thing now that the refugees are from Afghanistan. Strange how all such calls have gone silent today.
CAKCy
Member
- Location
- Cyprus, East Mediterranean
History (about evacuation) is written by the evacuators?! - (paraphrasing W.Churchill)I guess it depends on who you want to believe:
"It was a mess."
While the evacuation in Kabul was ordered, by contrast at the US Embassy in Nam, " From time to time, shots rang out from below, where thousands of Vietnamese milled about angrily in the embassy courtyard. Other Vietnamese were already rampaging through the lower floors of the six-story building, trying to make their way up tear-gas-filled stairwells. "
Remember this photo:
Marines used rifles to try to keep Vietnamese traitors from escaping. But some wouldn't accept that they were not welcomed:
I checked but could not find any data on how many died trying to escape prosecution for their treason.
helicopter destroyed by enemy fire during evacuation:
While the Taliban stood by and allowed the evacuation, the patriotic Vietnamese took action: "Civilians, nurses, volunteers, and Air Force personnel would fly into Saigon's Tan Son Nhut Air Base under enemy fire with cargo and civilian aircraft and evacuate as many orphans as possible during the Fall Of Saigon. One aircraft crashed or was shot down killing 138"
THE PTSD GENERATION VIETNAM : THE FALL OF SAIGON (gotmysecondwind.blogspot.com)
Vietnam is not landlocked and the majority of traitors who escaped went by sea: "In fishing boats and barges, homemade rafts and sampans, they sailed by the thousands out to sea, hoping to make it to the 40 U.S. warships beckoning on the horizon" with many dying at sea as boats flipped or were struck by bullets shot at them by the patriotic Vietnamese forces. The total number is unknown to this day.
Americans protested granting asylum to Vietnamese:
Today people of certain political viewpoints protested open borders on the grounds that such people take away jobs from Americans, that they cost taxpayers untold billions, that they bring strange practices into our society thereby corrupting its stability, and that many are criminals seeking to avoid prosecution. We hear no such thing now that the refugees are from Afghanistan. Strange how all such calls have gone silent today.
oldiebutgoody
Senior Member
A valid point. Those who created the evacuation may have a tendency to white wash the experience to make it look like the USA was heroic, angelic, and benevolent in Saigon.
CAKCy
Member
- Location
- Cyprus, East Mediterranean
oldiebutgoody
Senior Member
Wasn't it????
From Google:
In 1995 Vietnam released its official estimate of the number of people killed during the Vietnam War: as many as 2,000,000 civilians on both sides and some 1,100,000 North Vietnamese and Viet Cong fighters. The U.S. military has estimated that between 200,000 and 250,000 South Vietnamese soldiers died.
I seriously doubt that the families of these victims would appreciate anyone calling the American imperialist forces and actions "benevolent".
CAKCy
Member
- Location
- Cyprus, East Mediterranean
oldiebutgoody
Senior Member
My question was sarcastic. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear from the start.
Oh, I know. After all this was the giveaway:
My reply was intended to erase any doubt that the pro war crowd may have.
CAKCy
Member
- Location
- Cyprus, East Mediterranean
Oh, I know. After all this was the giveaway:
My reply was intended to erase any doubt that the pro war crowd may have.
Thank you! Some people have a hard time understanding sarcasm and take my reactions literally, which causes a whole lot of unpleasant situations!