What is Consciousness?

spectratg

Senior Member
Location
Adamstown, MD
I’ve had annual, upper endoscopies in recent years, to check that radio-frequency ablations on my throat in 2015-2016 for a pre-cancerous condition were effective, and they have all been negative.

Every time that I have had the endoscopy, as the IV for the sedation drug is inserted into my arm, I consciously keep telling myself that I am fully awake and aware. . . but then I am not!

A patient under anesthesia exhibits relatively normal brain functions except for consciousness. Neurons keep firing, and pain signals travel their normal routes. But that pain is never felt, never experienced. The science of anesthesia sits right at the heart of the hard problem—allowing “easy” computational processes to continue while selectively eliminating subjective experience. But no one knows quite how. In the “orchestrated objective reduction suggest that structures called microtubules, which transport material inside cells, underlie our conscious thinking. It postulates that consciousness originates from microbuses and action inside neurons, rather than the connections between neurons. Microtubules are hollow, cylindrical structures made up of alpha and beta proteins which bond together in a single unit.” (Discover magazine, March 2018)

Traditional quantum mechanics says that a physical system, doesn't have defined properties until it is observed, an act known as a collapsing wave function. For example, Schrodinger’s classic thought experiment claims that the cat is both dead and alive, known as super position, until observed as one or the other. So an observation, or consciousness itself, causes the wave to collapse. The above theory proposes the opposite, that the collapse give gives rise to consciousness.

I know of a cat named Sharon who’s owner unfortunately got trapped in a box with a radioactive element, that, if it had decayed, would have caused the owner to die. So the cat, being hungry, decided to press a lever which, she had observed, would open the box and expose her owner as being (hopefully) alive (so Sharon could be fed) or (regrettably) dead (leaving a very hungry cat). Sharon's human is both dead and alive, until observed as one or the other by the cat.

Absence of knowledge, or computational power, is the only thing that gives rise to uncertainty. (Obviously I think that the Schrodinger’s cat hypothesis is ridiculous on the face of it.)
 

Jurisprudential illusion is an instance of human existential absurdity, wherein the illusion consists in blindly, mistakenly, presupposing given language of law to be determinative of human action and inaction; --- jurisprudential illusion is the ontologically unintelligible misconception of mistakenly presupposing given language of law determines one’s acts, and/or, that one determines one’s self to act, or forbear action, by given law.
 
spcitratg said: "Quantum mechanics says that a physical system, doesn't have defined properties until it is observed, an act known as a collapsing wave function."

But isn't that because we cannot know or define the properties of something without observing it? And doesn't collapsing the wave function just mean that we have learned something, and know a particle's location much better than before the observation.
 

When I go in for surgeries, Colon tests, or where they put an IV in my arm. They wheel me back to OR & I get on the OR table lay down & the anesthesiologist tells me to keep talking to him by answering his/her questions.

I ask why? They say that way we know when you have actually gone to sleep. As I won't be able to answer their questions if I'm still semi-conscious.
 
Observance would just be perception or awareness, if it's not appreciated by the mind. Consciousness is the radiation from the center of pure Being. All of creation is a field of consciousness in different forms and phenomena. It is, in all forms the essential constituent of all creation and permeates everything. It projects outward toward all manifested realms. So, Consciousness is present everywhere, influencing everything.
i guess you could consider it a reflection of the ultimate, absolute, eternal Being. ( like thought radiates to all phases of the atmosphere).
My take, anyway!
 
Going under during a medical procedure I never have any dreams while sleeping I dream almost every night and daytime naps. The dreaming actually starts after the procedure as I start to come out of it but only for a few seconds. We see videos of young people being totally disoriented after a dental procedure for example when they are making no sense whatsoever.
 
spcitratg said: "Quantum mechanics says that a physical system, doesn't have defined properties until it is observed, an act known as a collapsing wave function."

But isn't that because we cannot know or define the properties of something without observing it? And doesn't collapsing the wave function just mean that we have learned something, and know a particle's location much better than before the observation.
Yes I agree with you. Modern quantum mechanics says otherwise however. It's all about randomness and probability.
 
Observance would just be perception or awareness, if it's not appreciated by the mind. Consciousness is the radiation from the center of pure Being. All of creation is a field of consciousness in different forms and phenomena. It is, in all forms the essential constituent of all creation and permeates everything. It projects outward toward all manifested realms. So, Consciousness is present everywhere, influencing everything.
i guess you could consider it a reflection of the ultimate, absolute, eternal Being. ( like thought radiates to all phases of the atmosphere).
My take, anyway!
Interesting and well thought out opinion! Is a chimp or an elephant or a dolphin conscious, all of whom are believed to be self-aware? How about an ant? Or a blade of grass? As an animal species the human race is very self-centered.
 
Thought is in the relative field. It's surface and ever changing. Being is the absolute, unchanging, all-inclusive creative intelligence which constantly creates, maintains and dissolves all in all the multiverse, which is constantly expanding, always growing and evolving into all phenomena.
In my opinion, (and that's all this is) everything EVERYTHING is alive. Not only alive but sacred. A rock is alive!
Everything in creation in all spheres, all places, have a consciousness. This includes beings seen and unseen. manifested and not manifested.

as always, IMO
 
Very good question in OP, and plenty of book written, and I imagine, still being written on this topic.

My recollection, reading about the subject twenty years ago, was scientists confessed to lacking knowledge of the workings of the brain.

The front cover of the book had a man's head, with a diagramn of square set of steps, one of those optical or logic illusions, where you believe anyone walking up those steps, around this four cornered building, or wall, could forever keep going upwards, (will try to find a picture to illustrate this).
 
spcitratg said: "Quantum mechanics says that a physical system, doesn't have defined properties until it is observed, an act known as a collapsing wave function."

But isn't that because we cannot know or define the properties of something without observing it? And doesn't collapsing the wave function just mean that we have learned something, and know a particle's location much better than before the observation.

Yes I agree with you. Modern quantum mechanics says otherwise however. It's all about randomness and probability.

Perhaps the conflict between physics (Schrödinger's cat is both dead and alive and not dead and not alive all at the same time) and common sense (a cat cannot be both dead and alive) stems from language. We are speaking here in English whereas the language of physics is mathematics. We know that a cat can't be both dead and alive simultaneously. But the equations don't know that, and just because the math works, doesn't mean it's saying anything about the real world.
 
Arn't you going back to Einstein's theory? Everything is energy. We perceive only the relative but there is also an absolute.
This is the soul of the cat which perhaps we can't perceive but it's there. It's pure and imperishable What you see is the physical,
which is in the relative field. the material existence.
It's fascinating, isn't it? The soul/mind connection?
Spectratg, If you know physics, You must ponder on this a lot! How exciting! I don't. I read of the Vedas and the Upanishads
but wish I had the knowledge of science.
 
Very good question in OP, and plenty of book written, and I imagine, still being written on this topic.
The front cover of the book had a man's head, with a diagram of square set of steps, one of those optical or logic illusions, where you believe anyone walking up those steps, around this four cornered building, or wall, could forever keep going upwards, (will try to find a picture to illustrate this).
As mentioned above, (to play with your mind!):

Impossible staircase.2.jpg
 
General anaesthesia is usually only used here in the UK for serious operations - rarely for colonoscopies, endoscopy, minor ops etc.. There are a number of advantages in using local anaesthetics. Having never had general anaesthesia, I couldn't say what it was like. Now, some years ago, Mrs. T broke her arm and it had to be reset. In cases like this, they administer a strong painkiller and sedative that doesn't cause unconsciousness, but does cause amnesia , so the patient has no memory of the procedure.

I don't concern myself with the finer points of consciousness. If I need anaesthesia, I just hope it works and I wake up OK at the other end.
 
Anesthesia is the chemical suppression of the nervous system. I'm not sure we have a handle on what is human consciousness , yet. I believe the human nervous system is a biochemical one. Injuries to the brain bare this out. I doubt quantum mechanics really affects molecules at this level of interaction. Q.M. is relegated to the infinity small. At this level of molecular activity, we don't have to worry about Schrodinger's cat.
 
When I go in for surgeries, Colon tests, or where they put an IV in my arm. They wheel me back to OR & I get on the OR table lay down & the anesthesiologist tells me to keep talking to him by answering his/her questions.

I ask why? They say that way we know when you have actually gone to sleep. As I won't be able to answer their questions if I'm still semi-conscious.
However, twilight anesthesia is often used and allows the patient to respond to the doctor. From Wiki:

"Twilight anesthesia is an anesthetic technique where a mild dose of sedation is applied to induce anxiolysis (anxiety relief), hypnosis, and anterograde amnesia (inability to form new memories). The patient is not unconscious, but sedated. During surgery or other medical procedures, the patient is under what is known as a "twilight state", where the patient is relaxed and "sleepy", able to follow simple directions by the doctor, and is responsive. Generally, twilight anesthesia causes the patient to forget the surgery and the time right after. It is used for a variety of surgical procedures and for various reasons. Just like regular anesthesia, twilight anesthesia is designed to help a patient feel more comfortable and to minimize pain associated with the procedure being performed and to allow the medical practitioner to practice without interruptions."
 
However, twilight anesthesia is often used and allows the patient to respond to the doctor. From Wiki:

"Twilight anesthesia is an anesthetic technique where a mild dose of sedation is applied to induce anxiolysis (anxiety relief), hypnosis, and anterograde amnesia (inability to form new memories). The patient is not unconscious, but sedated. During surgery or other medical procedures, the patient is under what is known as a "twilight state", where the patient is relaxed and "sleepy", able to follow simple directions by the doctor, and is responsive. Generally, twilight anesthesia causes the patient to forget the surgery and the time right after. It is used for a variety of surgical procedures and for various reasons. Just like regular anesthesia, twilight anesthesia is designed to help a patient feel more comfortable and to minimize pain associated with the procedure being performed and to allow the medical practitioner to practice without interruptions."
Can that be used daily to be able to handle the pain of being alive?
 


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