Massive Protest Against Vaccine Mandate By NYC Police & Firefighters

OneEyedDiva said:
I don't believe in the mandate. But I don't say that people who want to shouldn't get vaccinated (eg: I'm not an anti-vaxer). Regardless of the percentage of municipal workers, including fire and police officers, less is less. I doubt NYC can afford to have less of those critical jobs staffed. As @Pepper noted, already she's gone from hearing sirens and more sirens to hearing none. Some places have instituted a mandatory COVID test for those who are not vaccinated. I like that option better. And as @chic pointed out...drug companies may be off the hook for being sued in case there are any adverse reactions to the vaccine, although I thought once the vaccines were approved, that would change immediately and not a wait until 2025.

An additional slap in the face is if an employer mandates an employee to get vaccinated and said employee has a severe adverse reaction, the company can't be sued either. There is no liability. And how much you wanna bet, the company may even penalize the employee who winds up having to take time off because of it (?).
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I thought so too once they received FDA approval but the whole thing just makes me wonder even more about this whole thing. 🤗
 

no doctor would call masks stupid. .the doctor would not have initiated a conversation about an new vaccine before it was approved by the fda. the vaccine is experimental only in that it is new and the fda doesn't normally go further when approving new drugs. these are "special" times and a vaccine was desperately needed ,hence the quick approval .millions have received the vaccine. it has proven safe and effective in most cases .i have no contempt for no other poster .i vehemently disagree with those who have decided that this is a political issue and not a disease that only science can eradicate. this is not business as usual.
 
suds00 said:
no doctor would call masks stupid. .the doctor would not have initiated a conversation about an new vaccine before it was approved by the fda. the vaccine is experimental only in that it is new and the fda doesn't normally go further when approving new drugs. these are "special" times and a vaccine was desperately needed ,hence the quick approval .millions have received the vaccine. it has proven safe and effective in most cases .i have no contempt for no other poster .i vehemently disagree with those who have decided that this is a political issue and not a disease that only science can eradicate. this is not business as usual.
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Uh....OK, so I must be makin' the whole conversation up & you know that 'cuz you were in the room with us. 😂
 

suds00 said:
you had the alleged conversation .i doubt that a doctor would make a oft-handed comment about a vaccine before it was even approved.
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When the doctor said "Stupid Masks," he may not have meant masks were useless; he may have been complaining about having to wear a mask all the time & he thought the upcoming vaccine would fix that by making masks unnecessary. Which it didn't......
 
suds00 said:
that's because everyone didn't get the vaccine and the delta variant came to the us. you're still better of with the vaccine.
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If that was true, there wouldn't be so many breakthrough cases.
We didn't hear about breakthrough cases with smallpox & polio vaccines - which took the required many years to develop.
"Delta Variant?" Why were there no variants with smallpox & polio viruses?
 
win231 said:
If that was true, there wouldn't be so many breakthrough cases.
We didn't hear about breakthrough cases with smallpox & polio vaccines - which took the required many years to develop.
"Delta Variant?" Why were there no variants with smallpox & polio viruses?
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Polio had 3 variants and smallpox had 2 variants.
 
dseag2 said:
I believe I saw today that 91% of NYPD officers have now been vaccinated, so whether one thinks it's right or wrong the mandate is working.
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Assuming that figure is accurate (which it likely isn't), that's not the case in other departments. Only 51% vaccinated here:

The Sheriff's Department is the largest in the country. Of its 16,084 sworn and civilian personnel, 51% — 8,180 — are fully vaccinated, according to data provided by the county CEO's office. There are at least 2,327 unvaccinated employees and 1,843 seeking a religious or medical exemption. Twenty-one percent — 3,444 — are yet to register their vaccination status with the county.
https://laist.com/news/criminal-jus...s-because-of-vaccine-mandate-villanueva-covid
 
win231 said:
If that was true, there wouldn't be so many breakthrough cases.
We didn't hear about breakthrough cases with smallpox & polio vaccines - which took the required many years to develop.
"Delta Variant?" Why were there no variants with smallpox & polio viruses?
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there are breakthrough cases because many don't get vaccinated.. there are fewer cases amongst the vaccinated .more people trusted the science with the other viruses you named. smallpox was vaccinated against hundreds of years ago with vaccine made from cowpox. .there are different variants because the virus has mutated. the vaccine works well over 90% of the time as opposed to not getting the vaccine.
 
suds00 said:
there are breakthrough cases because many don't get vaccinated.. there are fewer cases amongst the vaccinated .more people trusted the science with the other viruses you named. smallpox was vaccinated against hundreds of years ago with vaccine made from cowpox. .there are different variants because the virus has mutated. the vaccine works well over 90% of the time as opposed to not getting the vaccine.
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Smallpox & Polio vaccines were developed over 10-15 years - the time required for study, testing & research. Not 10 months like the Covid vaccine. That's why it's not working.

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635?

"Revelations of poor practices at a contract research company helping to carry out Pfizer’s pivotal covid-19 vaccine trial raise questions about data integrity and regulatory oversight. Paul D Thacker reports
In autumn 2020 Pfizer’s chairman and chief executive, Albert Bourla, released an open letter to the billions of people around the world who were investing their hopes in a safe and effective covid-19 vaccine to end the pandemic. “As I’ve said before, we are operating at the speed of science,” Bourla wrote, explaining to the public when they could expect a Pfizer vaccine to be authorised in the United States.1

But, for researchers who were testing Pfizer’s vaccine at several sites in Texas during that autumn, speed may have come at the cost of data integrity and patient safety. A regional director who was employed at the research organisation Ventavia Research Group has told The BMJ that the company falsified data, unblinded patients, employed inadequately trained vaccinators, and was slow to follow up on adverse events reported in Pfizer’s pivotal phase III trial. Staff who conducted quality control checks were overwhelmed by the volume of problems they were finding. After repeatedly notifying Ventavia of these problems, the regional director, Brook Jackson, emailed a complaint to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Ventavia fired her later the same day. Jackson has provided The BMJ with dozens of internal company documents, photos, audio recordings, and emails.
 
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suds00 said:
the covid vaccine was in development since the sars epidemic.it is working ,as advertised. you can quote any questionable source you want to back up your arguments. i've never heard of them aside from the bmj .take the vaccination .don't take the vaccination .i'm done arguing .it's tiresome.
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one more thing .despite the issues cited in the article. the fda approved pfizer's application for the vaccine .the study may have shown sloppy practises but the vaccine was approved for general use .the majority of people in this country have gotten at least one shot and millions have gotten two, as well as a boosters ;with the vast majority not having unmanageable side effects or breakthrough cases. fin
 
retiredtraveler said:
I have never understood this 'free country' crappola. You have rules and regs on everything in your daily life. Osha governs the workplace with thousands of regs. You have traffic laws, mandatory schooling up to a certain age. People have to be licensed or certified to perform hundreds of different jobs. You have to pay taxes. You have laws that force you to mow your lawn in certain locales.
What in God's name is different about vaccine mandates????
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Safety regulations and mowing your lawn are entirely different from a gov't and employers demanding people put a substance in their body.

The original idea was that if a percentage of the population got vaccinated (I think it was 65% or 70%), we would reach herd immunity. That made sense; vaccine plus natural immunity. Why was natural immunity dropped from the equation? I suggest the reason is profits, corruption and greed.
 
Murrmurr said:
Safety regulations and mowing your lawn are entirely different from a gov't and employers demanding people put a substance in their body.

The original idea was that if a percentage of the population got vaccinated (I think it was 65% or 70%), we would reach herd immunity. That made sense; vaccine plus natural immunity. Why was natural immunity dropped from the equation? I suggest the reason is profits, corruption and greed.
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"Yes—but “herd immunity to COVID-19” does not mean that we will soon achieve a level of immunity in the population, like what we see with measles, and coronavirus will be “over.” Returning to life as it was before the pandemic, without seeing large coronavirus outbreaks, is unlikely to happen for several years, for a few reasons.

First, it has proven much harder to get people vaccinated against COVID-19 than against measles. As of September 2021, just over half of the US population was fully vaccinated against COVID-19—even though we know that the FDA-approved vaccines are extremely safe and have remained highly effective, even against new variants like the delta variant.

Second, young children are still not eligible for the vaccine, and new children (who are susceptible to COVID-19) are born every day. So, until we get vaccines that are approved for use in all ages, there is likely to be ongoing transmission of the coronavirus in kids, who will in turn be able to infect adults, especially unvaccinated ones.

Third, while our vaccines against COVID-19 are very effective and dramatically reduce the risk of infection, they do not reduce that risk to zero. People who have gotten vaccinated can still become infected (so-called breakthrough infections), and some people who have had COVID-19 can get it again. This means that we would need an even higher level of vaccination against COVID-19 to achieve herd immunity.

For all these reasons, it will be very challenging to get to the level of population immunity against COVID-19 that we have seen with measles in the U.S. We should therefore expect to see some level of ongoing coronavirus transmission in our population for many years (if not forever). But as we build immunity to SARS-CoV-2, the risk of severe illness will decrease, and future waves of infection won’t be as disruptive."

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/what-is-herd-immunity-and-how-can-we-achieve-it-with-covid-19
 
Murrmurr said:
Safety regulations and mowing your lawn are entirely different from a gov't and employers demanding people put a substance in their body.

The original idea was that if a percentage of the population got vaccinated (I think it was 65% or 70%), we would reach herd immunity. That made sense; vaccine plus natural immunity. Why was natural immunity dropped from the equation? I suggest the reason is profits, corruption and greed.
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immunity from vaccination has been found to be superior to natural immunity. also, you can die if you get covid 19 natural immunity only kicks in if you survive the disease. the substance you put in your body is the only thing currently available that can save you from getting the disease.
 
Since hearing one siren at 130pm I have since heard two more, though very short. They are warming back up to speed. The noise, the noise, the constant noise. However, this is NYC and my "rent" is cheap!
 
suds00 said:
one more thing .despite the issues cited in the article. the fda approved pfizer's application for the vaccine .the study may have shown sloppy practises but the vaccine was approved for general use .the majority of people in this country have gotten at least one shot and millions have gotten two, as well as a boosters ;with the vast majority not having unmanageable side effects or breakthrough cases. fin
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"i'm done arguing .it's tiresome."
Obviously, it's not tiresome enough. 😁
 
suds00 said:
immunity from vaccination has been found to be superior to natural immunity. also, you can die if you get covid 19 natural immunity only kicks in if you survive the disease. the substance you put in your body is the only thing currently available that can save you from getting the disease.
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Ya know which type of immunity (natural or the vaccine) is superior? The type you chose.
 

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