Irwin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
It doesn't seem like a good idea to force poor women to have children they can't afford or are unable to take care of.
Abortion - the times may be a changin...
- Thread starter Alligatorob
- Start date
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Or to force any women to have children they don't want.
Most on SF, whether parents or not, understand it takes oceans of time and patience, plus a strong support system, to raise a child well. Not everyone is up for the challenge.
helenbacque
Senior Member
- Location
- Central Florida
There is little that is sadder than the life of an unwanted child.
If politics wins and a bad decision by these nine people (our very unbalanced/bias Supreme Court) will put us back in the world of kitchen table abortions for poor women and the frightened teen.
If politics wins and a bad decision by these nine people (our very unbalanced/bias Supreme Court) will put us back in the world of kitchen table abortions for poor women and the frightened teen.
Smiley Holly
Member
Abortion, I feel is a very personal decision for a women. Whether they decide that is to keep the baby or have the baby and put it up for adoption or have an abortion it is still a very personal decision that needs to be weighed heavily by the women involved and not by any outside parties.
What if it's not weighed heavily? What if it is casual, or a means of birth control. It is still no one's business but her own. We can't expect or desire every woman should go through the required hell before she is able to abort. It's truly MYOB time.
Smiley Holly
Member
I understand where you are coming from, but ultimately the decision comes down to the women who is dealing with the situation.
Alligatorob
SF VIP
That is the crux of the problem. Many people, somewhere around half in the US do not believe abortion is murder, the other half (more or less) do.
Very different from killing a breathing baby or older, 99.99% would agree that would be murder.
No
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Alligatorob
SF VIP
I agree, none of the government's business. Or mine for that matter...
Because a 4 month fetus is considered a late term abortion, if they laid out the fetus's people might not even recognize what they were.
No one can mistake 4 month fetus as anything other than a tiny human. It is 4.5 inches long.
This elevates the decision to abort to high drama level, IMO. BUT, a decision, in my view, that is still in mother's right to be the ultimate one. Can't shy away from facts despite my opinion.
This elevates the decision to abort to high drama level, IMO. BUT, a decision, in my view, that is still in mother's right to be the ultimate one. Can't shy away from facts despite my opinion.
Irwin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
A fetus is a potential life, but not at all sentient or a viable life until the final few months of pregnancy, so what makes it so special if it's unwanted?No one can mistake 4 month fetus as anything other than a tiny human. It is 4.5 inches long.
This elevates the decision to abort to high drama level, IMO. BUT, a decision, in my view, that is still in mother's right to be the ultimate one. Can't shy away from facts despite my opinion.
The thing that gets me is, most of the anti-abortion crowd are also anti-vax and anti-mask — two simple things that can save lives. They supported the idiotic wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which killed 100s of thousands of innocent civilians. They're pro-gun and anti-gun regulation. They don't support programs to feed the hungry or to provide healthcare to those who can't afford it. They're pro-death in almost all cases except for when it comes to the life of the fetus.
Who exactly will benefit from banning abortion?
Not the women who are forced to have children they can't or don't want to take care of.
Not the people who pass the laws, unless they benefit somehow politically.
The fetus would be allowed to grow into a person, but in many cases be born into a poor household fraught with drug use, neglect, and child abuse.
So banning abortion for the most part doesn't benefit anyone. According to historian Carlo M. Cipolla's basic laws of stupidity, when people do things that cause losses to themselves and to others, that is the definition of stupidity.
Marie5656
SF VIP
- Location
- Batavia, NY
Had a college professor tell me once that I was not really pro choice because I, personally, would not choose abortion..but to put the child up for adoption rather than abort. But, CHOICE..right?
at 4 and a half inches I might smack it with a fly swatter. Think about what 4 and 1/2 inches really looks like.No one can mistake 4 month fetus as anything other than a tiny human. It is 4.5 inches long.
This elevates the decision to abort to high drama level, IMO. BUT, a decision, in my view, that is still in mother's right to be the ultimate one. Can't shy away from facts despite my opinion.
Alligatorob
SF VIP
Why should what it looks like matter?
I used to work in a Bio Lab. I saw fetuses of all stages of development.
mellowyellow
Well-known Member
In a perfect world, we wouldn’t have abortion, but women have been mutilating themselves throughout history to end their unwanted pregnancy but it’s now safe. For those who want to change it back to the 'good old days' they are not old enough to remember the carnage of backyard abortionists - women with no medical experience.
I was anti abortion, Mainly because in those days young women were being butchered by street abortions, until the Sherrie Finkbine story hit the news.
1962: Abortion mother returns home An American mother-of-four is on her way home amid a storm of controversy after being given a legal abortion in Sweden. Sherri Finkbine, a TV presenter from Phoenix in Arizona, was denied an abortion in her home state following intense negative publicity surrounding her case. The 30-year-old mother decided to terminate her fifth pregnancy after discovering that tranquilizers she had taken in the first few weeks of her pregnancy contained the drug Thalidomide. In recent months there has been increasing evidence suggesting Thalidomide causes severe foetal deformities including missing limbs, deafness and blindness. http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/26/newsid_3039000/3039322.stm |
old medic
Senior Member
- Location
- Western NC
I had the "joy" of taking care of one a few weeks back.... held in one hand doing CPR with my thumb... She was trying to breath....
Her life was about 30 minutes long...
My opinion.... there are situations that a medical abortion is a viable answer...
BUT... If someone ( Male or Female) wants to use abortion as a form of birth control then they forfeit their right to ever have children again.
mellowyellow
Well-known Member
I wish men would stay out of this argument, they have absolutely no idea.
WheatenLover
Senior Member
- Location
- Georgia
I know that some women use abortion as a form of birth control, because I have met one. But forfeiting their rights to have children? How would that work? No one would know the real reason and they would simply use different abortion providers so that no one would find out.
I have met plenty of men who wanted their girlfriends to get an abortion when they became pregnant. These men also refused to help support the child financially, and none wanted any contact with the child, if it were born, and none wanted to marry the women. The women either got an abortion because they could not afford to support a child and didn't want to have it adopted, or they had the child and were vilified for having a "welfare baby".
I have *never* met a man who agreed to pay child support and/or have contact with the child in a parental role, or who would marry the woman and try to form a family together. These women, btw, were girlfriends, not just one night stands.
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Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I am for legalised abortion because the alternative, unregulated backstreet abortions, is much worse. I also agree that it is a woman's right to decide for herself whether she wants to continue with a pregnancy, or not.
However, as a woman, I feel that even a potential life has value. Great value.
My daughter has four children. She fell pregnant early in her marriage and it was not intentional. She and her husband were not in a good place financially and when the doctor confirmed the pregnancy, she was shocked. The doctor told her to make up her mind quickly whether she wanted to continue with the pregnancy. That shocked her even more.
Fortunately Hubby and I were in a position to assure her that we would support them in every way, which we have done. We are still supporting this child, now a mature woman, because she has a genetic variation that has affected her cognitive abilities. This was not diagnosed until she was about 10 years old. It has been a difficult ride but she is part of our family and much loved.
When the fourth pregnancy occurred, my daughter was again shocked at the news. This was very much a surprise just as the financial situation was beginning to improve. Another baby was definitely not part of the plan.
Again, the doctor offered the termination option and this time it was seriously considered, but again it was rejected. My daughter later told me, "Mum, this one is the icing on the cake", and so she is. You can see her in my thread about Music Therapy. Her embryonic potential has been wonderfully fulfilled.
These decisions are hard either way and every woman's circumstances and supports are different. That is why it should be a decision for the pregnant woman to make. It is society's responsibility to ensure that mothers have adequate support to raise and educate the babies that they carry to full term.
WheatenLover
Senior Member
- Location
- Georgia
When I was pregnant with our triplets, my doctor offered us a partial abortion (1 or 2 fetuses). We refused, and both of us were horrified at the suggestion. Our fetuses were very much wanted. He said he had to tell us about it (hospital policy).
It's too late now to put money where my mouth is, but I would get an abortion if there were no other viable options. And viable options don't just have to do with a severely sick fetus. I can think of more, but they would have to occur simultaneously.
At any rate, I think abortion is the woman's choice, and that she also has the choice of giving someone else a say in the decision. I also think late term abortions that are not for medical reasons are something I don't agree with. My babies were born at 27 weeks, and all of them are still alive. At the point when they become viable fetuses, I draw the line, except for medical reasons. But that is just my opinion and I would not foist it upon anyone else.
It's too late now to put money where my mouth is, but I would get an abortion if there were no other viable options. And viable options don't just have to do with a severely sick fetus. I can think of more, but they would have to occur simultaneously.
At any rate, I think abortion is the woman's choice, and that she also has the choice of giving someone else a say in the decision. I also think late term abortions that are not for medical reasons are something I don't agree with. My babies were born at 27 weeks, and all of them are still alive. At the point when they become viable fetuses, I draw the line, except for medical reasons. But that is just my opinion and I would not foist it upon anyone else.
