Is Ridicule Just Another Name For Bullying?

I'm not sure a simplistic answer as to the cause of anything is the way to go, and of course the tendency to excuse inexcusable behaviour is rife too! :(
 

David777 said:
I admit to having a low opinion on the ability of many ordinary people to discuss, debate, argue within even the most optimal environments. My college logic teacher easily destroyed during the first week almost everyone else in the class he engaged. In an uncontrolled environment without face to face personal communication as one finds on the Internet, it all becomes worse and is a minefield. Ridicule can be bullying but in a few group circumstances has valid purpose when an individual with a falacious minority position, has already had obviously logical reasons presented against their point but repeatedly stubbornly persists in repeating the same thing as though they either don't have knowledge or common sense to understand counter reasoning or is playing games in their own mind like having the last word just to irritate others.

There are significant numbers of overly emotional people that through most of their upbringing and into adult life that have almost always been surrounded by siblings, parents, schoolmates, friends that are likewise emotional in anything they say. Most that have careers in professional team work environments where group discussions and meetings are common have learned how to communicate in considerate, unemotional, friendly productive ways and those that cannot do so are likely to have a short career.

For example sitting around a lunch table people are casually discussing a most trivial subject like what color shirts to wear to work. What an individual chooses effects no others and most people might at most just chuckle a bit. An overly emotional person may relate they prefer white dress shirts while another person may respond they personally don't like white and prefer blue. The emotional person may respond emotionally just because someone disagreed with them as though they are somehow being attacked while a normal person would just smile and move on. Such persons are also likely to engage in pushing others buttons in order to elicit reactions but are confused when someone responds quietly like Spock. A wise person might be critical of their point but would not ridicule such a person within a group setting but rather take that person aside sometime in the future and try to explain more appropriate behavior. Much more of course than this terse input as there are whole books on the very complex nature of human communication and language.

Our world would be a better place if in high schools students were yearly taught a few communication courses including argumentation fallacies because many ordinary people habitually use such while unaware how what they are communicating is received by others that do. Manipulative news media today targets such people because they don't readily understand what such is.

https://www.lindsey.edu/academics/img/writing-center-pdfs/introduction-fallacies.pdf
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I think you've mailed down this thread topic pretty well and your views and knowldge can't be improved upon! :)
 
Warrigal said:
As Grahamg has hinted at, humour and the use of sarcasm are perceived differently in different countries. In Australia some terms that could cause fights in another country are terms of affection. It is easy for an American or a Canadian to misinterpret the posts or emojis used by Brits and Australians and to take offence. We also find different things funny much to the puzzlement of our North American friends. I'm sure the reverse situation also applies. We should all try to keep calm unless directly attacked in unmistakable terms.

I use the thumb up emoji to indicate a good point made and the laughing one if something in it tickled my funny bone. That is all that should be read into them.
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I'm sure this is right, and just a thought here, maybe this thread topic is linked to what has become known in the UK as "Cancel Culture"! :(
 

Shero said:
It seems to me, those that are bullied at school or at home, tend to pass it on in their later life. Very sad.
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It is sad, you are right. Why though, would someone who has experienced the mental pain of bullying, want to pass it on to others? It doesn't make sense.

Forums and social media sites are still a relatively new phenomenon, although they have been around for a good few years now, many of those who post appear to lack the skill of the written word, or they just "jump in" without thought or care.

In life much of our communication is unspoken, we give off signals when we make eye contact, our body language and our demeanour, all convey or reinforce our verbal communication. The written word has none of that and the written word can be so ambiguous, no wonder it causes spats and distress.
 
Shero wrote:
"It seems to me, those that are bullied at school or at home, tend to pass it on in their later life. Very sad."
horseless carriage said:
It is sad, you are right. Why though, would someone who has experienced the mental pain of bullying, want to pass it on to others? It doesn't make sense.

Forums and social media sites are still a relatively new phenomenon, although they have been around for a good few years now, many of those who post appear to lack the skill of the written word, or they just "jump in" without thought or care.

In life much of our communication is unspoken, we give off signals when we make eye contact, our body language and our demeanour, all convey or reinforce our verbal communication. The written word has none of that and the written word can be so ambiguous, no wonder it causes spats and distress.
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I think there are assumptions being made here that are not necessarily accurate, (for example what better excuse could a bully ask for than for everyone to assume they'd been bullied equally at an earlier stage in their lives, - I may have tried to make this argument before, so apologies if it sounds familiar?).
 
grahamg said:
Shero wrote:
"It seems to me, those that are bullied at school or at home, tend to pass it on in their later life. Very sad."

I think there are assumptions being made here that are not necessarily accurate, (for example what better excuse could a bully ask for than for everyone to assume they'd been bullied equally at an earlier stage in their lives, - I may have tried to make this argument before, so apologies if it sounds familiar?).
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Thinking back to my younger days, I might have been a bully at times. I think I acted that way as a self-defense mechanism to get people to see me as a tough guy and not give me any sh*t. It worked to some extent. Perception is everything.

That was when I was in my 20s. I'd pick out the toughest guy and do things like punch him in the arm and then laugh, and rarely would there be any retaliation. Actually, people tried to befriend me for it, and that's how I gained acceptance.

I was about 6'1", 200lbs and strong as an ox physically. Mentally, I was weak as a fawn unless I was drunk, in which case I was a bit more confident, but mostly I was quiet unless I was bullying somebody. That was my thing — my survival mechanism. I regret the way I treated some people, but I doubt it had any long lasting effects. They've probably all been more successful in life than I have.
 
Irwin said:
Thinking back to my younger days, I might have been a bully at times. I think I acted that way as a self-defense mechanism to get people to see me as a tough guy and not give me any sh*t. It worked to some extent. Perception is everything.

That was when I was in my 20s. I'd pick out the toughest guy and do things like punch him in the arm and then laugh, and rarely would there be any retaliation. Actually, people tried to befriend me for it, and that's how I gained acceptance.

I was about 6'1", 200lbs and strong as an ox physically. Mentally, I was weak as a fawn unless I was drunk, in which case I was a bit more confident, but mostly I was quiet unless I was bullying somebody. That was my thing — my survival mechanism. I regret the way I treated some people, but I doubt it had any long lasting effects. They've probably all been more successful in life than I have.
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Thank you for being honest and just for the record I think you are a nice person :)
 
Yes, I think Irwin is a very nice person, too -- one of the nicest I know.

I think this forum is the nicest one I've encountered, so I may be tone deaf to certain things.

I did feel a little bit bullied a few weeks ago when I said a president's name and got reported for being political. Several people jumped on me at once so it was kind of daunting. I'm still learning about how this particular board defines "political." I would have called the abortion issue one of the hottest political subjects of the past 40 years and yet it's been discussed for five pages. (?)

I grew up in a family where teasing was rampant and one way we showed affection for each other. We learned how to tease gently and not go into touchy areas. My husband grew up in a family where all teasing was considered bad, and, honestly, I think it's been a disadvantage to him to not understand friendly teasing and how to react to it with good humor.

I would define ridicule as a form of teasing or mocking that has gone too far and is intended to make others laugh at you. It's mean.

I think bullying is different because there is a power play in most bullying. The popular girls bully the outsider, the boss bullies the workers, the big guys bully the little ones. It's mean, too, but different.
 
Irwin said:
What statement were they trying to make? Do you have political bumper stickers on your car?
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Where I live, we put no political signs out for candidates, and we do not put political bumper stickers on our cars. Too much chance of something really bad happening. Not just stolen signs. Using guns. I am friends with people on the opposite side of the political spectrum who would not do something like that. But plenty of drunk or crazy people live here, too.

So I put my political bumper sticker on our fridge.

I've never been bullied IRL or on forums. I defend myself, physically if necessary. I don't think it's a problem for me because I don't put up with it. When people ask me if I have a gun to protect myself (that happens a lot around here), I say no. I have my cast iron skilled and a baseball bat. And my mouth.
 
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Irwin said:
@Shero and @Della, thank you for your kind words. I'm not so sure that I'm all that nice, though. I just refrain from posting insults, but that doesn't mean that I don't think insulting thoughts. :ROFLMAO:
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Just for a day, and to get them out of your system, feel free to post whatever comes into your head is my suggestion, as I pretty much do myself as you may have noticed, (everyone in favour?). :unsure::whistle:
 
WheatenLover said:
Where I live, we put no political signs out for candidates, and we do not put political bumper stickers on our cars. Too much chance of something really bad happening. Not just stolen signs. Using guns. I am friends with people on the opposite side of the political spectrum who would not do something like that. But plenty of drunk or crazy people live here, too. So I put my political bumper sticker on our fridge.
I've never been bullied IRL or on forums. I defend myself, physically if necessary. I don't think it's a problem for me because I don't put up with it. When people ask me if I have a gun to protect myself (that happens a lot around here), I say no. I have my cast iron skilled and a baseball bat. And my mouth.
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Point taken, (now where is my hard hat?)! :sneaky:
 
grahamg said:
Just for a day, and to get them out of your system, feel free to post whatever comes into your head is my suggestion, as I pretty much do myself as you may have noticed, (everyone in favour?). :unsure::whistle:
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Naaa, I just ignore people I don't like. They're not worth the trouble. And studies have shown that cathartic exercises don't purge negative emotions. They actually have the opposite effect; they make you more angry.

Here is a study on the topic...
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbushman/PSPB02.pdf
 
Irwin said:
Naaa, I just ignore people I don't like. They're not worth the trouble. And studies have shown that cathartic exercises don't purge negative emotions. They actually have the opposite effect; they make you more angry.

Here is a study on the topic...
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbushman/PSPB02.pdf
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Interesting study, but just in case they're wrong, let rip with a few expletives now and again would be my advice! :whistle::giggle:
 
grahamg said:
Interesting study, but just in case they're wrong, let rip with a few expletives now and again would be my advice! :whistle::giggle:
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I do that all the time in real life. I have a short fuse when I'm out in public — probably because I don't like being out in public. By "out in public" I'm referring to being around people, which is not something that I do deliberately, but there are so many people in the world, you can't open the front door to your house without being around people.

It used to be that I could go for a nice long walk and not see anyone. Now it seems like people come out of the woodwork like cockroaches. Like this morning, I was out walking the dog and carrying his poop in a plastic bag. We headed to the park to throw the poop in the trash but some guy was standing over the trash can cleaning something. So I walked over towards another trash can and some guy was just standing in front of it with his dog off the leash. My dog is nearly blind and freaks out around other dogs if they bark at him, so we turned around and walked in the other direction. There are just too many damn people in the world!

I try not to let people bother me and just keep my head down in an attempt to ignore everyone, but sometimes people won't leave me alone, and when that happens, out come the pejoratives. I just can't help myself. One guy said he was going to call the police on me, but he started the whole thing. That was out at the park a few years ago. I've had a few other run-ins with people at the park who just won't leave me the hell alone.

And actually, you're right that it does help to let loose a few expletives every once in a while! It makes me chuckle when I think about it afterwards. But the reason it works is because when someone is behaving like an ass and you don't respond, you can wind up beating yourself up for it. But when you put them in their place, it feels good!

Online is a different story. Anybody can be a bully online.

Internet_dog.jpg
 
I'll have to admit that I was bullied as a young child, then I became somewhat of a bully in junior high. It was teasing, not physical, because I was only 135 pounds. We were so cruel to kids who were "different" in those days, it makes me sad to think about how it may have affected them later in life.

Fortunately, I outgrew it. I think it is because as a gay adult there was so much oppression that I started to empathize with the feelings of others who were "different". Not that you needed to know, but gay people can be some of the most catty and vindictive to other gay people due to being made fun of all their lives. It is a self-defense mechanism. Lash out at someone before they lash out at you.

I try not to be a bully on forums, although there are some times that I take exception to what someone posts about certain topics. I try to make a concerted effort to stay on track and contribute. With so few exceptions, there are such great people in this forum. I hope I can add a different perspective to what a "senior" is.
 
Irwin said:
I do that all the time in real life. I have a short fuse when I'm out in public — probably because I don't like being out in public. By "out in public" I'm referring to being around people, which is not something that I do deliberately, but there are so many people in the world, you can't open the front door to your house without being around people.
It used to be that I could go for a nice long walk and not see anyone. Now it seems like people come out of the woodwork like cockroaches. Like this morning, I was out walking the dog and carrying his poop in a plastic bag. We headed to the park to throw the poop in the trash but some guy was standing over the trash can cleaning something. So I walked over towards another trash can and some guy was just standing in front of it with his dog off the leash. My dog is nearly blind and freaks out around other dogs if they bark at him, so we turned around and walked in the other direction. There are just too many damn people in the world!
I try not to let people bother me and just keep my head down in an attempt to ignore everyone, but sometimes people won't leave me alone, and when that happens, out come the pejoratives. I just can't help myself. One guy said he was going to call the police on me, but he started the whole thing. That was out at the park a few years ago. I've had a few other run-ins with people at the park who just won't leave me the hell alone.
And actually, you're right that it does help to let loose a few expletives every once in a while! It makes me chuckle when I think about it afterwards. But the reason it works is because when someone is behaving like an ass and you don't respond, you can wind up beating yourself up for it. But when you put them in their place, it feels good!

Online is a different story. Anybody can be a bully online.

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I think I get all this but I'm very lucky in that I can quite easily stay away from people if I wish, and am happy working away on my own in some beautiful scenery, or working with one good mate.
At the same time, if I'm not feeling harassed, and am able to sit somewhere in town and just watch the behaviour of other folks, then I can find this interesting too, (much more so than previously).

Glad you do let it all out occasionally, and yet you are right to be cautious generally too, and my feelings only come to the surface and get let out if someone is being persistently unreasonable in my opinion.
 
Irwin wrote:
"Naaa, I just ignore people I don't like. They're not worth the trouble. And studies have shown that cathartic exercises don't purge negative emotions. They actually have the opposite effect; they make you more angry.

Here is a study on the topic...
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbushman/PSPB02.pdf

grahamg said:
Interesting study, but just in case they're wrong, let rip with a few expletives now and again would be my advice! :whistle::giggle:
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Referring back to the study you mentioned above I noticed in their conclusions section, (all I really read in truth), the "letting it all out behaviour" they seemed to be considering was rather pointless activities like punching a pillow when you're angry, wasn't it, and I can see why this wouldn't help anyone, (perhaps I should read the whole thing to decide whether I'm being fair?).
 
grahamg said:
If it is then I'm in real trouble, because my default mode of behaviour is to ridicule posts I believe are putting forward preposterous of ridiculous views or arguments.

Is ridicule really so hard to tolerate? I do hope my posts are not so persistent or cruel in the levels of ridicule I use against any individual, so I'd hope no one thinks it amounts to bullying, where folks go out of their way to pick on others, without showing any balance or proportionate posts.
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I am afraid I have to agree, however, there is a gentle way to get one's point across and the other way. I believe in free speech. No one should be upset if a person does not agree with them. One may be able to prove their point, that is the civilized way to disagree in my opinion.
 
horseless carriage said:
It is sad, you are right. Why though, would someone who has experienced the mental pain of bullying, want to pass it on to others? It doesn't make sense.

I think it's like any other type of abuse- when someone who's been harmed cannot 'get back at' the person who harmed them, they take it out on somebody else. Especially if that 'somebody else' is smaller, weaker, or some other way can't defend themselves. Fortunately, though, this doesn't always happen... but unfortunately, it happens too often.
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I refrain from “hot button” topics. If I engage in ones that are charged I give my experience not what I think others should think on the subject. At times I will use supporting information in links. Everyone can choose to be upset, angry or ignore those are emotions.
 
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