How much do we owe each other ?

fuzzybuddy

fuzzybuddy

SF VIP
Location
The Sticks, Northeast PA.
hollydolly posted a thread about a drug addled, trash strewn street in Phily. It's a street almost all cities have. To clean up the trash, and rehabilitate the people would take many billions at the barest minimum. And that brings up the question- How much do we owe one another?
 

"There are rights to which we are entitled, simply by virtue of our humanity. Human rights exist independent of our culture, religion, race, nationality, or economic status. Only by the free exercise of those rights can we enjoy a life of dignity. Among all the rights to which we are entitled, health care may be the most intersectional and crucial. The very frailty of our human lives demands that we protect this right as a public good. Universal health care is crucial to the ability of the most marginalized segments of any population to live lives of dignity. Without our health we—literally—do not live, let alone live with dignity.


In the United States, we cannot enjoy the right to health care. Our country has a system designed to deny, not support, the right to health. The United States does not really have a health care system, only a health insurance system. Our government champions human rights around the world, insisting that other countries protect human rights, even imposing sanctions for a failure to do so. Our government is not as robust in protecting rights at home.


The right to health care has long been recognized internationally. Ironically, the origins of this right are here in the United States. Health care was listed in the Second Bill of Rights drafted by Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR). Sadly, FDR’s death kept this Second Bill of Rights from being implemented. Eleanor Roosevelt, however, took his work to the United Nations (UN), where it was expanded and clarified. She became the drafting chairperson for the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR). That committee codified our human rights, including, at Article 25, the essential right to health. The United States, together with all other nations of the UN, adopted these international standards."

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/...e-united-states/health-care-as-a-human-right/
 

Philly is only one of many major cities with the same problem. Maybe better would be to ask what are the taxes collected & part of a city budget for street cleaning being spent on. What to do plagues cities world wide & IMO more than likely will increase as time passes.

Owing to another as a concept to work would have to include everyone being exactly equal in every thing.
 
IMO all we need is basic law enforcement.

images


Park a paddy wagon on the corner, start arresting people, and keep arresting people as they commit quality of life and public safety crimes like littering, noise complaints, loitering, public urination, etc...

Bring them back in orange jumpsuits and let them see how much more work it is to clean up after them than it is to use a trash can in the first place.

IMO it all goes back to the broken windows theory of policing prosecuting small crimes to discourage bigger crimes.

It's time to wake up, America.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
To clean up the trash, and rehabilitate the people would take many billions at the barest minimum. And that brings up the question- How much do we owe one another?
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I look at it differently. Money invested to successfully clean things like this up is well spent and will be returned many times over. It would make the world a better and more prosperous place to live. So I believe investments like this, if done right, are selfish.
 
I suspect that most of the "homeless" are mentally disabled...or drug addicts, who, IMO, are Also mentally disabled. There used to be mental hospitals...often called Insane Asylums....which gave such people extensive help/therapy. But, in recent years, such institutions have all but disappeared....at least in this area. I guess it became "politically incorrect" to "stigmatize" people by calling them Insane. Now, such people might get a quick visit to a psychiatric "clinic", but that's about all they get.

Until there is a serious effort to crack down on drug dealers, and give those addicted extensive withdrawal help, I see No improvement in this mess. Without weeks of good mental health treatment, these Slums will just continue to grow, in virtually every city.
 
Several cities have had cleanup crews come in clean areas in a volunteer system ... actually the areas stay cleaned longer then city doing it..
i think some feel worse letting the area go back looking like a dump if volunteers did it.

Too many expect others to do it .... i have joined a pick up crew before....

It is lack of respect of your surroundings that often leads to this ....
In speaking of health I assume you mean mental health in instance where people live in this.... What is Never discussed ........ is in both addiction and mental health ... these both more then most any other health item ..............REQUIRES the person is an active participant in their own recovery ...
more often then not it is a revolving door situation .... they act as if they want it at first ...most likely to appease family or maybe even a court order....................... but when they get out of rehab etc it is back to same old thing.
Imo far too many just want to throw money at it instead of seeing WHY it does not work just send more money seems to be a mantra.
I have WITNESSED this more then once .....

If successful in rehab many would need to MOVE maybe to even another city to start over......... and CUT all ties with their past friends or whomever sometimes it is family to stay clean .................................most do NOT... instead they go back to same /area same triggers etc.
It is a life long issue not like a surgery and your done....
 
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Don M. said:
I suspect that most of the "homeless" are mentally disabled...or drug addicts, who, IMO, are Also mentally disabled. There used to be mental hospitals...often called Insane Asylums....which gave such people extensive help/therapy. But, in recent years, such institutions have all but disappeared....at least in this area. I guess it became "politically incorrect" to "stigmatize" people by calling them Insane. Now, such people might get a quick visit to a psychiatric "clinic", but that's about all they get.

Until there is a serious effort to crack down on drug dealers, and give those addicted extensive withdrawal help, I see No improvement in this mess. Without weeks of good mental health treatment, these Slums will just continue to grow, in virtually every city.
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Mental institutions with openings have all but disappeared in this area also. One major reason is that the Gov. of this state, using the excuse that it was infringing on people's freedoms, made it harder to commit people. Of course, the reason he really did it was to save the state $$. And of course, it instead ending up costing the state more $$ when those people who should have been committed and gotten the right kind of help--therapy rather than "snap out of it & get a job"--became homeless. (That particular governor wasn't intelligent by any means.)
 
Jeni said:
If successful in rehab many would need to MOVE maybe to even another city to start over......... and CUT all ties with their past friends or whomever sometimes it is family to stay clean .................................most do NOT... instead they go back to same /area same triggers etc.
It is a life long issue not like a surgery and your done....
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I so love that last sentence.

Me, and my lady, do it up close and personal.
One on one.

No donations to large organizations and bureaucracies that tend to misappropriate funds

And when there is some action, those 'clean ups' just scrape away the crud for the coming of fresh new crud.
 
officerripley said:
Mental institutions with openings have all but disappeared in this area also. One major reason is that the Gov. of this state, using the excuse that it was infringing on people's freedoms, made it harder to commit people. Of course, the reason he really did it was to save the state $$. And of course, it instead ending up costing the state more $$ when those people who should have been committed and gotten the right kind of help--therapy rather than "snap out of it & get a job"--became homeless. (That particular governor wasn't intelligent by any means.)
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same here in the UK ..all but disappeared except for institutions for the criminally insane...

My mother was a psycho geriatric nurse when I was a kid, there was many mental hospitals as they were called then..in our city... and people could go for short periods or long depending on the severity of their mental health... now it's called ''Care in the Community'' and those who would have been looked after and often made well.. are left to fend for themselves in their homes and in the streets and the general Public are often victims of their actions...
 
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I think it boils down to the family, our neighborhoods, and our cities (these are just my thoughts):

1) Each family, each parent is responsible in raising their children the best way they can. IMHO, the family is the cornerstone of our society. Everything begins there in a human's life. It is the foundation of our existence. But it doesn't always work
that way - there might be alcoholism in the family, or a single-family home environment, etc. When the family is broken down, then the families who foster children or adopt children become important. The family (and friends) are the matrix of love, like a spider web, we are constantly watching out for each other.

2) Each city and state is responsible for a number of issues, like healthcare. Medicaid, for example, has helped the poor in getting healthcare. In that regard, it's important that citizens vote in leaders who are caring about their constituents and promise to get the job done, and if they don't, citizens should vote for someone else.

3) I don't know if we "owe" anything to each other, other than within our own home and neighborhood. Mother Teresa traveled the world helping the poor, but when she was asked the following question, this was her answer:
“What can you do to promote world peace? Go home and love your family.”
― Mother Teresa

However, now with the Internet, we are reaching across oceans and fundraising to help others in need, so we are living in different times. So it all depends.
 
officerripley said:
Mental institutions with openings have all but disappeared in this area also. One major reason is that the Gov. of this state, using the excuse that it was infringing on people's freedoms, made it harder to commit people. Of course, the reason he really did it was to save the state $$. And of course, it instead ending up costing the state more $$ when those people who should have been committed and gotten the right kind of help--therapy rather than "snap out of it & get a job"--became homeless. (That particular governor wasn't intelligent by any means.)
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From what I remember, the federal government started closing mental institutions in the 1980s and started putting people with psychological disabilities into prisons, just to lock them up and get them off the streets. Along with that came the privatization of prisons, which created incentives to lock more people up, since the prison industrial complex filled the coffers of politicians who were "tough on crime."

We got to the point where, instead of trying to help people, we just locked them up, then let them out, and locked them up again in a revolving door scenario. Add to that, the lack of affordable housing and runaway college tuition costs and it's not surprising that so many people have just given up. Living on the street no doubt keeps people from recovery. They have no stability in their lives and little hope of a better life.

The only solution (IMO) is communes.
 
Gary O' said:
Been thru it all
The legalized Hobo camps were a big bust

For me, the answer is one on one
and that's often a big if

We have a few folks we check on from time to time
Rather discouraging....
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good post ....
It is one on one for they folks i have seen come back from addiction and issues ...
the KEY that is an eye opener for one person to see a way out and pursue it ....is often quite different then the next guy.
Programs often do NOT work as they thought simply because they are designed ...One Size fits All....
 
Alligatorob said:
All too often the case. Its why I said when "done right", problem is I don't really know what "done right" looks like...
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Not the way California does it, that's for sure.

I posted about this before somewhere. A few years ago, the people of L.A. said OK to a $2.6M bill intended to build housing for the homeless. By the time the state paid the contractors, planners, directors and utilities & permits, not a dime was left to even break ground. Nothing built.

And this was several years after a similar bill passed for $2.2M that resulted in 52 apartments. 52 apartments for an estimated 30,000 homeless people in Greater Los Angeles. An estimated 1/4 of them were children.

Californians have lost all enthusiasm for housing the homeless.
 
Gary O' said:
Been thru it all
The legalized Hobo camps were a big bust

For me, the answer is one on one
and that's often a big if

We have a few folks we check on from time to time
Rather discouraging....
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There was a guy in L.A. a few years ago; a Gulf War vet who built hundreds of tiny homes for people on the street. People donated cash, and he and a handful of friends built them, and gave them to dozens of homeless folks. He placed them on land that was either public and remote, or donated by private parties.

Within 6 months, city officials ordered police to throw the people out so they could haul away their tiny homes and destroy them.
 
Murrmurr said:
Not the way California does it, that's for sure.

I posted about this before somewhere. A few years ago, the people of L.A. said OK to a $2.6M bill intended to build housing for the homeless. By the time the state paid the contractors, planners, directors and utilities & permits, not a dime was left to even break ground. Nothing built.

And this was several years after a similar bill passed for $2.2M that resulted in 52 apartments. 52 apartments for an estimated 30,000 homeless people in Greater Los Angeles. An estimated 1/4 of them were children.

Californians have lost all enthusiasm for housing the homeless.
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exactly ... the sad reality is for so many politicians and a whole group of people .......POVERTY is a business .... If the problem was fixed they would not have empty campaign promises and all those involved would not have a salary ....
In your post.... planners / directors...... are key words for those who take a cut BEFORE any solution comes into fruition....
 
Jeni said:
exactly ... the sad reality is for so many politicians and a whole group of people .......POVERTY is a business .... If the problem was fixed they would not have empty campaign promises and all those involved would not have a salary ....
In your post.... planners / directors...... are key words for those who take a cut BEFORE any solution comes into fruition....
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Also the state set up a couple of "programs" with a bunch of that money, too. "Transitional" programs...you know, to teach the homeless how to flip a light switch.
 

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