Omicron has changed the shape of the pandemic. Will it end it for good?

Brookswood said:
Up to a point, I agree. But, the person must also have some creds and be able to back up what they say. We must be able to separate those who contribute, discuss and are willing to engage in back and forth dialogue from those who are just shooting off their mouths or have a hidden agenda. Otherwise the discussion gets overwhelmed by static and nonsense.

IOW, we must each decide whose opinions have credibility and contribute to the discussion and separate them from those who who speak from ignorance or have different agendas. This is not unusual. Anybody who has been on a jury knows that one job of the jurors is to decide which witnesses they can believe and trust. And which ones they won't. It's not always easy.
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There are certainly a few here who are regurgitating what they hear on whichever of the two polarized news camps they've chosen to believe hook line and sinker. Those are easy to dismiss and are few, thankfully.

Then there's the more prevalent group who occasionally think outside their ideological frame work, and I enjoy reading and discussing their posts at times.

Harder to find are those who want to question and research outside the 'go team' two...and only TWO.... sides of Western news media.

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AnnieA said:
There are certainly a few here who are regurgitating what they hear on whichever of the two polarized news camps they've chosen to believe hook line and sinker. Those are easy to dismiss and are few, thankfully.

Then there's the more prevalent group who occasionally think outside their ideological frame work, and I enjoy reading and discussing their posts at times.

Harder to find are those who want to question and research outside the 'go team' two...and only TWO.... sides of Western news media.

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I believe we should question just about everything regarding the handling of this pandemic. Otherwise we'll never learn from it. šŸ¤”
 
We do need to learn from this ... but data is too unreliable and biased. no distinction of died with or from...

hospital totals instead of those there for covid vs those being treated for other items and then tested positive .... Many with out symptoms. It is unbelievable that this distinction was not asked for by governors / agencies from the start.....

We will always have division if the only item that some want is just believe whatever you are told NO QUESTIONS asked and false faith in "experts".
I find many simply do not look into the past.
How many treatments that in their day.... experts believed were great and then found oops that was not the best route .....
but THIS time so many simply refuse to think we Might be on wrong path again.

here is a link of hysteria and false info from with another health crisis ... HIV
the issue is when links are posted people do not read with open mind and ask themselves ...

Does this make sense?
Does this show a pattern of jumping to conclusions about a new disease ?
Do track records Matter?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...ds-patients-could-put-kids-at-risk/ar-AAQvxnc
 

Brookswood said:
Up to a point, I agree. But, the person must also have some creds and be able to back up what they say. We must be able to separate those who contribute, discuss and are willing to engage in back and forth dialogue from those who are just shooting off their mouths or have a hidden agenda. Otherwise the discussion gets overwhelmed by static and nonsense.

IOW, we must each decide whose opinions have credibility and contribute to the discussion and separate them from those who who speak from ignorance or have different agendas. This is not unusual. Anybody who has been on a jury knows that one job of the jurors is to decide which witnesses they can believe and trust. And which ones they won't. It's not always easy.
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Brooks, do you know that Dr. Malone is internationally recognized as the Chief Architect of mRna vaccine technology? He hasn't been allowed to speak out about problems with mRna except on "conservative" media outlets. So, whether my politics align with that type of media or not, I have to go there to hear what Dr Malone has to say.
 
Murrmurr said:
Brooks, do you know that Dr. Malone is internationally recognized as the Chief Architect of mRna vaccine technology? He hasn't been allowed to speak out about problems with mRna except on "conservative" media outlets. So, whether my politics align with that type of media or not, I have to go there to hear what Dr Malone has to say.
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NO! Malone is not the chief architect of anything. He was one of dozens who worked on the mRna vaccine technology.
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YouTube takes down anti-vax Joe Rogan interview with Dr Robert Malone

YouTube has removed a now-viral episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, featuring an interview between the divisive host and Dr Robert Malone, a scientist with a history of controversial statements regarding Covid-19.

The episode, No 1757, was uploaded to Spotify on New Yearā€™s Eve as part of Mr Roganā€™s exclusive deal with the streaming service, and then shared by several third-party channels to YouTube. The Post Millennial reports it was then removed from the platform, reportedly in violation of the siteā€™s Community Guidelines.

During the three-hour and six-minute interview, Dr Malone ā€“ whose Twitter account, followed by more than 500,000 people, was suspended last Wednesday ā€“ claimed to be part of the team that invented the mRNA technology used in coronavirus vaccines.

The 61-year-old also touched on vaccines and mandates, before sensationally drawing parallels between the current state of the US and Nazi Germany.

The doctor alleged on the podcast that American society is experiencing a ā€œmass formation psychosisā€ similar to Germany in the 1920s and 30s and. compared the current state of the US to Nazi Germany.

********
Why did youtube and twitter ban Malone? Because he is a fake !!

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...e/news-story/dac9fa69eba2fcd1f4a2c860880c1fa4
 
Jeni said:
We do need to learn from this ... but data is too unreliable and biased. no distinction of died with or from...

hospital totals instead of those there for covid vs those being treated for other items and then tested positive .... Many with out symptoms. It is unbelievable that this distinction was not asked for by governors / agencies from the start.....
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Also, research scientists asked for the cadavers or tissue samples from cadavers but hospitals weren't allowing it, which is astonishing to me. But finally, like late last year, they started allowing researchers to have actual tissue samples and also they finally started letting certain medical universities do autopsies too. If both those things had been allowed early on, I think lives would have been saved. And policy-makers would have been able to come up with better strategies. This is why some people wonder of they didn't want to.
 
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Murrmurr said:
Also, research scientists asked for the cadavers or tissue samples from cadavers but hospitals weren't allowing it, which is astonishing to me. But finally, like late last year, they started allowing researchers to have actual tissue samples and also they finally started letting certain medical universities do autopsies too. If both those things had been allowed early on, I think lives would have been saved. And policy-makers would have been able to come up with better strategies. This is why some people wonder of they didn't want to.
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Scientists have had tissue samples for a while now and have found the Omicron variant can survive longer than earlier versions of the coronavirus on plastic surfaces and human skin.

Nothing new here!
 
Some of the unvaxxed think they are so smart, they game the system [pun intended] and then post it on social media. I hope they didn't infect anyone with Omicron.

"A New York couple faces charges after allegedly posting on social media that they had attended a Buffalo Bills football game at Highmark Stadium on January 15 using fake Covid-19 vaccine cards, according to the Erie County District Attorney's Office.

Amber Naab, 37, and Michael Naab, 34, each face a second-degree felony charge of criminal possession of a forged instrument, Erie County District Attorney John J. Flynn said in a news conference. The couple was arraigned Tuesday evening and both pleaded not guilty, according to Kait Munro, a spokesperson for the DA's office."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/27/us/fake-vaccine-cards-buffalo-bills-game/index.html
 
Nosy Bee-54 said:
Some of the unvaxxed think they are so smart, they game the system [pun intended] and then post it on social media. I hope they didn't infect anyone with Omicron.

"A New York couple faces charges after allegedly posting on social media that they had attended a Buffalo Bills football game at Highmark Stadium on January 15 using fake Covid-19 vaccine cards, according to the Erie County District Attorney's Office.

Amber Naab, 37, and Michael Naab, 34, each face a second-degree felony charge of criminal possession of a forged instrument, Erie County District Attorney John J. Flynn said in a news conference. The couple was arraigned Tuesday evening and both pleaded not guilty, according to Kait Munro, a spokesperson for the DA's office."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/27/us/fake-vaccine-cards-buffalo-bills-game/index.html
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That's the Dunningā€“Kruger effect at work. Most of them have no higher education, they get their information from unreliable sources without questioning what they're told, and they think they're knowledgeable as a result. They have no idea how much they don't know, so they think they know it all.
 
Murrmurr said:
Also, research scientists asked for the cadavers or tissue samples from cadavers but hospitals weren't allowing it, which is astonishing to me. But finally, like late last year, they started allowing researchers to have actual tissue samples and also they finally started letting certain medical universities do autopsies too. If both those things had been allowed early on, I think lives would have been saved. And policy-makers would have been able to come up with better strategies. This is why some people wonder of they didn't want to.
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I agree.
This disease has is often different in many patients.... the one size fits all mantra has no space here.
The more and earlier this research was done the better.
 
Murrmurr said:
Brooks, do you know that Dr. Malone is internationally recognized as the Chief Architect of mRna vaccine technology? He hasn't been allowed to speak out about problems with mRna except on "conservative" media outlets. So, whether my politics align with that type of media or not, I have to go there to hear what Dr Malone has to say.
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Me also. I would listen to Dr. Malone who is so knowledgeable he had to be censored into silence. He's a virologist and a vaccinologist, the first to test and try the mRNA vaccines. He spoke at the Washington DC rally last Sunday and we do have to go to alternative sources to hear him and others because all are censored by our own governments. Govt./media silencing of the best medical experts on this subject during a global pandemic is tyranny bordering on totalitarianism. There needs to be respect for differing opinions. That is what science is all about as I learned it in school. Not a one size fits all approach to a solution. :unsure:
 
@chic

Hundreds of medical scientist, professors and practitioners are warning against a one size fits all approach, particularly the push for everyone to get a 3rd and 4th jab because they have data showing that these subsequent vaccines are actually reducing people's immunity by a great margin. The CDC published that data yesterday, I think...or day before. These doctors are pushing for people to be tested to see if they have natural immunity, and if not, they should be vaxxed if they haven't been. They're also pushing for wider publication of their natural immunity findings, which is that natural immunity gives people the same protection as the vaccine but lasts way longer. Others who need vaccination boosters are patients with obesity, diabetes militias, severe lung and upper respiratory diseases, elderly people, and people who were never exposed to SARS Cov2. These are the people who need the boosters.
 
While I was in the hospital for several weeks fighting Encephalitis, I was told by my nurse, who looked after me very diligently, so I called her "my nurse," that there had been four COVID deaths the day before. I was feeling so rotten that I just couldn't feel the sorrow that I should have for the families that lost their loved ones. This COVID, SARS or whatever it's real name is, has become a tragedy like no other in my lifetime.
 
oldman said:
While I was in the hospital for several weeks fighting Encephalitis, I was told by my nurse, who looked after me very diligently, so I called her "my nurse," that there had been four COVID deaths the day before. I was feeling so rotten that I just couldn't feel the sorrow that I should have for the families that lost their loved ones. This COVID, SARS or whatever it's real name is, has become a tragedy like no other in my lifetime.
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Same for me, oldman. My kids are in their 30s and early 40s, and I think they'll probably be saying the same thing when they're my age. I mean, it's possible another pandemic will come along, but I truly believe we'll be better prepared. Wiser, too.
 
I heard on TV yesterday that we are 40,000 truck drivers short in this country and 20,000 pilots short also. I would still fly, if the FAA would allow me. Heck, put a younger man in the cockpit with me and if I croak while flying, they will still have one good pilot.
 
The employment numbers just don't seem to add up, at least, to me. The "official" numbers are claiming that unemployment is under 4%, yet everywhere I go, there are Help Wanted signs on the stores. We have TV ads looking for school bus drivers, and local factory workers, etc. It appears that huge numbers of people have left the workforce, due to Covid, But, aren't those people being counted in these unemployment figures??

This Covid is far from over. While Omicron seems to be less deadly than the Delta strain, it is already mutating into some new variants, and will probably continue to do so...for years to come.
 
oldman said:
I heard on TV yesterday that we are 40,000 truck drivers short in this country and 20,000 pilots short also. I would still fly, if the FAA would allow me. Heck, put a younger man in the cockpit with me and if I croak while flying, they will still have one good pilot.
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Altho the US media isn't reporting how many truckers are protesting the vaccine mandate, there are many protesting it just like Canadian truckers are doing.
Just type truckers protesting mandates into your search. You'll be surprised by the numbers.

Instead of the US media being truthful and saying truckers are not at work due to protesting, they care claiming its due to covid, well yes it is in a way, but not due to them having covid.
 
Murrmurr said:
@chic

Hundreds of medical scientist, professors and practitioners are warning against a one size fits all approach, particularly the push for everyone to get a 3rd and 4th jab because they have data showing that these subsequent vaccines are actually reducing people's immunity by a great margin. The CDC published that data yesterday, I think...or day before. These doctors are pushing for people to be tested to see if they have natural immunity, and if not, they should be vaxxed if they haven't been. They're also pushing for wider publication of their natural immunity findings, which is that natural immunity gives people the same protection as the vaccine but lasts way longer. Others who need vaccination boosters are patients with obesity, diabetes militias, severe lung and upper respiratory diseases, elderly people, and people who were never exposed to SARS Cov2. These are the people who need the boosters.
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Exactly. I agree with you. This is why it's harmful to label some conspiracy theorists for having a different opinion. Why we still have vaccine mandates? IDK. That should go too.
 
Sunny said:
Dr. Robert Malone is a quack. See this article about him in the Washington Post.

How Robert Malone, vaccine scientist spreading misinformation, was embraced by Joe Rogan, anti-vaxxers - The Washington Post
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The Washington Post is subscription, so I read their articles once they're picked up by a news aggregate. I have found it as well as the NYT in the past few years the polar opposite of--and just as biased as--Fox News. All three sources mentioned are so ideological slanted as to be useless other than as a starting point for clues to original sources.

As for Malone, he brings up worst case scenarios that are pure speculation at this point. He is well educated and has extensive research experience with mRNA therapeutics, but there's no way to prove him right or wrong other than with time.
 
Murrmurr said:
Brooks, do you know that Dr. Malone is internationally recognized as the Chief Architect of mRna vaccine technology? He hasn't been allowed to speak out about problems with mRna except on "conservative" media outlets. So, whether my politics align with that type of media or not, I have to go there to hear what Dr Malone has to say.
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I am open to new information. Alas, when it comes to the media, both the liberal and conservative sides are driven first and foremost by ratings and profits. Truth is an unfortunate victim, collateral damage. The more flash and gas a source exhibits, the less I trust them.
 
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suds00 said:
both sides are dismissing doctors and so-called experts that have an opinion or present facts which they disagree with
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Sadly that is very true.

I love listening to opposing sides that present facts and reason, and acknowledge that they could be wrong. The more certain a person is that she or he is right, the greater the chance they are dangerously wrong. (See the Dunning Kruger Effect.) People who can't say "I was wrong" are among the most dangerous to get advice from.

Gosh, I am wrong so often, I must be brilliant! šŸ˜² Or am I wrong about that also. šŸ˜‹
 
chic said:
Me also. I would listen to Dr. Malone who is so knowledgeable he had to be censored into silence. He's a virologist and a vaccinologist, the first to test and try the mRNA vaccines. He spoke at the Washington DC rally last Sunday and we do have to go to alternative sources to hear him and others because all are censored by our own governments. Govt./media silencing of the best medical experts on this subject during a global pandemic is tyranny bordering on totalitarianism. There needs to be respect for differing opinions. That is what science is all about as I learned it in school. Not a one size fits all approach to a solution. :unsure:
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Sigh. He's a quack, Chic.
 

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