Omicron has changed the shape of the pandemic. Will it end it for good?

Does anybody know if the response to the 1919 epidemic was so politically divisive? I can't believe where we've gotten ourselves.
 

i'm not sure but i believe people had less knowledge
of science and didn't ask questions, and believed
those in charge .also the 1919' spanish flu 'epidemic didn't last as long as this pandemic and possibly people didn't get as worked up .today everyone questions everything and everyone.
 
JimBob1952 said:
Does anybody know if the response to the 1919 epidemic was so politically divisive? I can't believe where we've gotten ourselves.
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According to this article things were a lot the same as today:

'A breaking point': Anti-lockdown efforts during Spanish flu offer a cautionary tale for coronavirus
Opposition to public health directives forced some cities to roll back orders too quickly.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...-during-spanish-flu-offer-cautionary-n1202111
 

JimBob1952 said:
Does anybody know if the response to the 1919 epidemic was so politically divisive? I can't believe where we've gotten ourselves.
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During the 1919 pandemic, everyone including politicians left it up to medical science to figure out the best approach, treatment, and precautions. So when doctors said mask-up, most people did. Vaccines were a new thing and medical scientists hadn't discovered viruses yet, so they thought the flu was a bacterial infection. They developed several antibacterial vaccines for the "flu bacteria". Some scientists today think that some of those vaccines might have given cross-protection from multiple related strains, and all of them agree that exposure/herd immunity is why it weakened and died out.
 
AnnieA said:
As for Malone, he brings up worst case scenarios that are pure speculation at this point. He is well educated and has extensive research experience with mRNA therapeutics, but there's no way to prove him right or wrong other than with time.
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And that's kind of like, when there's no current data or live tissue cells to test, scientists use computer modeling to basically predict outcomes and results. They haven't always been accurate, and some of the inaccurate ones have been way out there in Not-Land.
 
Sunny said:
He's a quack...
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You're misusing quack --definition below. I think Malone is going out on a limb with his more extreme predictions, is overly enjoying the attention he's getting, but he certainly is not a pretender.

Malone's education: BS in biochemistry from the University of California, Davis, MS in biology from the University of California, MD from Northwestern University School of Medicine. He did a year of post-doctoral study at Harvard. His vita includes numerous peer-reviewed published studies including mRNA therapeutics.

Definition of medical quack:​
​
a fraudulent or ignorant pretender to medical skill.​
a person who pretends, professionally or publicly, to skill, knowledge, or qualifications he or she does not possess; a charlatan.​
​
​
.​
 
Rah-Rah said:
I would love this all come to an end, but viruses mutate. That is what they do so I don't see it coming to an end .
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I agree. A virus is a virus which "they" develop different names. No matter what they call it, its a virus...jmo. The common cold, flu, pneumonia has been around for as long as I can remember and there has never been a vaccine for the common cold as far as I know. I do believe Covid will calm down a bit once media exposure calm down - just a matter of time. Jmo. May we all be safe - not paranoid but safe.
 
Ladybj said:
I agree. A virus is a virus which "they" develop different names. No matter what they call it, its a virus...jmo. The common cold, flu, pneumonia has been around for as long as I can remember and there has never been a vaccine for the common cold as far as I know. I do believe Covid will calm down a bit once media exposure calm down - just a matter of time. Jmo. May we all be safe - not paranoid but safe.
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The last I checked not many have died from a common cold and certainly not even come close to passing away from the flu or even pneunomia. Covid is certainly on a different level if not just for that. I do hope at some period of time that this will all settle, but honestly it is not going to because the virus will continue to mutate because there are way too many people throughout that will spread the virus and the new strains.
 
Sunny said:
Sigh. He's a quack, Chic.
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He's a fully vaxxed doctor who has the most experience with mRNA vaccines of anyone. If you want to label him a quack fine but that's not your opinion, it's a regurgitation of government narrative. And, in doing so, you're eliminating the advice of the man who probably knows the most about this subject than anyone else and could provide help that would benefit us and future generations. It's not scientific to disregard his opinions on this subject.
 
chic said:
He's a fully vaxxed doctor who has the most experience with mRNA vaccines of anyone. If you want to label him a quack fine but that's not your opinion, it's a regurgitation of government narrative. And, in doing so, you're eliminating the advice of the man who probably knows the most about this subject than anyone else and could provide help that would benefit us and future generations. It's not scientific to disregard his opinions on this subject.
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But you probably do the exact same thing to Dr. Anthony Fauci who is regarded as a leading if not the leading physician scientist and immunologist on infectious diseases in the country.
 
chic said:
He's a fully vaxxed doctor who has the most experience with mRNA vaccines of anyone. If you want to label him a quack fine but that's not your opinion, it's a regurgitation of government narrative. And, in doing so, you're eliminating the advice of the man who probably knows the most about this subject than anyone else and could provide help that would benefit us and future generations. It's not scientific to disregard his opinions on this subject.
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Sunny is right, he is a quack and a darling of the anti-vaxx conspiracy nutters. You are brainwashed to believe to fear the gubmint, you need to stop listening to these conspiracy idiots, you're too smart of a lady to go that route.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/jan/06/who-robert-malone-joe-rogans-guest-was-vaccine-sci/

  • Dr. Robert Malone was banned from Twitter for violating the platform's COVID-19 misinformation policies. Soon after, YouTube removed videos of a controversial interview he did with Spotify podcast host Joe Rogan, according to reports.
  • Leaning on his early contributions to research around the mRNA vaccine technology now used in the COVID-19 vaccines, Malone has billed himself as the “inventor” of mRNA vaccines. In reality, the development of the vaccines and the technology they rely on involved countless scientists and several other breakthroughs.
  • Malone has promoted several false and misleading claims about the COVID-19 vaccines and pandemic. His claim of being the mRNA vaccine inventor and his ability to speak fluidly in scientific terms have given him great appeal to anti-vaccine audiences.
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Rah-Rah said:
But you probably do the exact same thing to Dr. Anthony Fauci who is regarded as a leading if not the leading physician scientist and immunologist on infectious diseases in the country.
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I have great respect for Dr. Fauci, he is very knowledgeable and has the best interest of the health of all Americans and that of our country. This is a new coronavirus that we are dealing with and he is closely following the data and the variants and informing us as best as he possibly can. It angers me that he has had death threats to himself and his family from these conspiracy anti-American nutters who are ignorant and angry individuals. They are a cancer in our country.
 
Jeni said:
We do need to learn from this ... but data is too unreliable and biased. no distinction of died with or from...

hospital totals instead of those there for covid vs those being treated for other items and then tested positive .... Many with out symptoms. It is unbelievable that this distinction was not asked for by governors / agencies from the start.....

We will always have division if the only item that some want is just believe whatever you are told NO QUESTIONS asked and false faith in "experts".
I find many simply do not look into the past.
How many treatments that in their day.... experts believed were great and then found oops that was not the best route .....
but THIS time so many simply refuse to think we Might be on wrong path again.

here is a link of hysteria and false info from with another health crisis ... HIV
the issue is when links are posted people do not read with open mind and ask themselves ...

Does this make sense?
Does this show a pattern of jumping to conclusions about a new disease ?
Do track records Matter?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...ds-patients-could-put-kids-at-risk/ar-AAQvxnc
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Very insightful video. It hits home since I had so many friends pass away of AIDs in the 80's. My response is that there is so little known about infectious diseases in the beginning that misinformation can certainly be prevalent. We are in the second year of Covid so hopefully the medical experts have learned something and can advise wisely. Thanks for posting.
 
Rah-Rah said:
The last I checked not many have died from a common cold and certainly not even come close to passing away from the flu or even pneunomia. Covid is certainly on a different level if not just for that. I do hope at some period of time that this will all settle, but honestly it is not going to because the virus will continue to mutate because there are way too many people throughout that will spread the virus and the new strains.
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Rah-Rah, the flu and pneumonia cause tens of thousands of deaths every year. That's why annual flu shots are available.
 
JimBob1952 said:
Does anybody know if the response to the 1919 epidemic was so politically divisive? I can't believe where we've gotten ourselves.
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It couldn't have been as politically divisive. Our country hasn't been this bad since the Civil War, and we could very well be verging on another civil war. Everything is political these days. Facts are now political. Like Stephen Colbert said: "Reality has a liberal bias." While he said it as a joke, there's truth in it. If you don't spin facts to the right, you're considered a liberal. That's how bad it's gotten.
 
AnnieA said:
The Washington Post is subscription, so I read their articles once they're picked up by a news aggregate. I have found it as well as the NYT in the past few years the polar opposite of--and just as biased as--Fox News. All three sources mentioned are so ideological slanted as to be useless other than as a starting point for clues to original sources.

As for Malone, he brings up worst case scenarios that are pure speculation at this point. He is well educated and has extensive research experience with mRNA therapeutics, but there's no way to prove him right or wrong other than with time.
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I respectfully disagree. He has said mass vaccine makes the vaccines less effective and has warned about vaccinating children who don't need it, and the possibility of ADE which is antibody dependency enhancement which we are seeing happen in the most vaccinated countries on earth in real time. Israel is on their 4th shot now. So this isn't worst case scenario speculation when you see and hear about it happening.
 
SeaBreeze said:
Sunny is right, he is a quack and a darling of the anti-vaxx conspiracy nutters. You are brainwashed to believe to fear the gubmint, you need to stop listening to these conspiracy idiots, you're too smart of a lady to go that route.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/jan/06/who-robert-malone-joe-rogans-guest-was-vaccine-sci/
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What exactly do you and @Sunny disagree with that Dr. Malone has said? I'd enjoy hearing Your opinions and not the parroting of govt. narrative.
 
chic said:
What exactly do you and @Sunny disagree with that Dr. Malone has said? I'd enjoy hearing Your opinions and not the parroting of govt. narrative.
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Here's part of an article in the Washington Post about him:

Malone argued Sunday that the omicron variant “is destroying the approved narrative that the vaccines are safe and effective,” ignoring last week’s CDC notice that vaccine boosters were preventing serious illness from the omicron variant of the coronavirus, which causes the disease covid-19. He also discouraged people from getting vaccinated and pushed instead for natural immunity, which, as emergency physician Leana S. Wen wrote for The Post in August, is dangerous.

It didn’t stop there. A Canadian study suggesting a high rate of heart inflammation after people were given coronavirus vaccines was retracted by the study’s authors in September because of a significant mathematical error, the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. reported. Despite the major inaccuracy, screenshots of the preprint study spread among the anti-vaccine community. Among those who shared it was Malone, who got a huge response to the tweet but did not take it down, even though many noted that the study had been retracted.
Timothy Caulfield, the Canada research chair in health law and policy at the University of Alberta, said Malone injecting himself into a conversation with the kind of credentials he has, and “cherry-picking rotten data,” was “a worst-case scenario.”
“You have this individual who has all these credentials and this history in the biomedical world, so that looks impressive. And he’s referencing a study that, on the face of it, may look impressive. But you don’t know that the study is fraudulent,” Caulfield said, adding that Malone has “weaponized bad research.”

In November, Malone shared a deceptive video to his Twitter followers that falsely linked athlete deaths to coronavirus shots. The video suggested that coronavirus vaccination killed Jake West, a 17-year-old Indiana high school football player who died of sudden cardiac arrest. But the vaccine played no role in West’s death. The teen died of an undiagnosed heart condition in 2013.
 
Murrmurr said:
Rah-Rah, the flu and pneumonia cause tens of thousands of deaths every year. That's why annual flu shots are available.
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Looking at my original post I don't think I explained that very well. I do fully understand that people die from the flu and and pneumonia every year. 10 of thousands of deaths per year compared to the deaths from Covid is not even close to the same thing. I understand a death is a death and it is horrible no matter what, but the amount of loss due to the Covid virus if you compare it yearly is way more than 10 thousand per year.
 
Sunny said:
Here's part of an article in the Washington Post about him:

Malone argued Sunday that the omicron variant “is destroying the approved narrative that the vaccines are safe and effective,” ignoring last week’s CDC notice that vaccine boosters were preventing serious illness from the omicron variant of the coronavirus, which causes the disease covid-19. He also discouraged people from getting vaccinated and pushed instead for natural immunity...
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It's wrong of Malone to tell people who have never contracted Covid-19 to avoid the vaccine in favor of natural immunity. It is also wrong of Fauci et al to discount natural immunity in previously recovered individuals.

Had our pharmaceutical dollar driven medical culture recognized both when study after study began coming in showing the benefits and limitations of each type of immunity in terms of real world efficacy, Covid-19 would not be so controversial.


.
 
I had read a few weeks ago that a scientist (for Pfizer I believe) said that COVID would become endemic. I wonder what the next variant will bring and will it be more severe than Delta or less severe than Omicron. I believe health officials are going to have to keep learning and revising what they tell the public about COVID variants.
 

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