U.S. public schools in crisis

Sunny said:
Can you read this article from today's Washington Post? If it won't let you, I can copy and paste. Very alarming article.

Public education is facing a crisis of epic proportions - The Washington Post
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The upper and middle class students will come out of this okay because their parents have resources at their disposal to handle remote learning including their own education and technology in their homes. It's the poor students who will get left even further behind. How exactly does a single mother with barely a high school education homeschool her children — especially when she's working full time just to be able to pay rent? And with recently government enacted restrictions on abortion, those will be the circumstances of even more single mothers.

Society is FUBAR.
 
When I went to a list of California K12 suburban schools in 50s/60s, students were reasonably well behaved, well dressed, all US native English speaking citizens, most interested in learning, expected homework most days, were taught core subjects with daily testing like math, science, history, English. In high school there were always a few fights outside school grounds but rarely in schools. Students were actually afraid of teachers that had nothing to fear from lawsuits. Bad behavior meant expulsion. By time my siblings finished schooling in the 1970s many politically correct liberalizing changes had been made and for the last few decades none of we seniors ought be surprised of the result.
 
My son got an excellent education in NYC, New Hampshire and Nassau County public schools in the eighties and nineties. He was educated by liberal staffs within a liberal curriculum. I was his teacher too, as well as tutor. So it's red baiting all over again. I wasn't surprised at the result of his preK through 12 as it landed him at MIT. So there. And...............we weren't wealthy. IMO, it greatly depends on parental interest, even for busy working parents.
 
I couldn't read it through the link but it's been posted on Yahoo.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/pub...5.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr


A lot of the behavioral problems are understandable now that without parents setting limits, kids are babysat by screens. Remote learning during lockdown further exacerbated socialization deficits.

Excerpt:

"My students are not acclimated to being in the same room together," she said. "They don't listen to each other. They cannot interact with each other in productive ways. When I'm teaching I might have three or five kids yelling at me all at the same time."​
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That loss of interpersonal skills has also led to more fighting in hallways and after school. Teachers and principals say many incidents escalate from small disputes because students lack the habit of remaining calm. Many say the social isolation wrought during remote school left them with lower capacity to manage human conflict.​
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There's a public school system so bad in one Mississippi county that friends there have told me that Teach for America volunteers with the best of intentions coming in quickly get emotionally burned out and drop out of the program even though community members try setting up support structures for them.

That's not even in the Washington County School District where this happened several years ago. What the teacher did was horrible but what is even more disturbing is that there were other staff members present in the gym who did nothing to intervene. The county school superintendent did nothing until the incident got international media coverage. Know the teacher was fired, barred from teaching and criminally charged. I think the superintendent was eventually fired as well.




The idea of vouchers for private schools has been floated for decades but I don't think vouchers will ever happen. Public school personnel oppose them because they'd lose money. A good many private schools wouldn't accept them because they don't want the federal entanglements that would come along with federal money.

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I was able to read it too. Not to dismiss the severity of the current problems, I must say that public schools in urban areas have been in crisis for decades! Schools in the areas with mostly minorities barely have enough books and supplies for the children, while schools in other areas get computers and the supplies they need. This has happened in my town and it burns me. Everybody is paying taxes, so why the inequity in distribution of resources?!

I also read an article last week about the dire situations and decreased capacity for children to learn in this new COVID induced environment. It's very sad and I don't know what can be done to resolve the issues. There are parents who have no choice but to go to work, yet for months were expected to home school their children. Adding to parental stress, the cost of childcare if they could even find a good place because if they left their children alone, they'd face legal charges if found out. Then the transportation situation...truth be told, too large a portion of school bus drivers were not the cream of the crop as it was, now I guess with the shortage it could be even worse.
 
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OneEyedDiva said:
I was able to read it too. Not to dismiss the severity of the current problems, I must say that public schools in urban areas have been in crisis for decades! Schools in the areas with mostly minorities barely have enough books and supplies for the children, while schools in other areas get computers and the supplies they need. This has happened in my town and it burns me. Everybody is paying taxes, so why the inequity in distribution of resources?!
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This bothers me too!

By some reports New York state spends in excess of $30,000.00 per student per year, but it's clear that the funds are not equally allocated to each school in each district.

It's also clear that managing the immense school budget and vast resources of our local school system is beyond the ability of the traditional elected school board made up of well-meaning people with little or no experience.
 
Aunt Bea said:
It's also clear that managing the immense school budget and vast resources of our local school system is beyond the ability of the traditional elected school board made up of well-meaning people with little or no experience.
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Management of funds is the problem in some failing, rural Mississippi counties. Instead of spending the money on students, those school districts practice rampant nepotism and the money goes to salaries. Once a family gains control at the top of the county school system, family and friends are hired and not fired. There's a 'joke' in one county that even secretaries have cousin secretaries. There's little the state can come in and do in that situation.

What started off as private, white flight academies (now desegregated but still independently funded) here are working. School board members are volunteer, parents are 'clients' who also put in many volunteer hours into the school and it works. These schools have excellent college matriculation rates despite the very small amount of dollars spent per student compared to area public schools.
 
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My husband had turned down a big promotion for a gig in Louisiana because we felt there was no way public education could have been as good as New Hampshire. Southern schools with such racial & evangelical problems, less access to big libraries, museums didn't give us much confidence. Public education can be downright excellent if the student lives in a certain area. I believe in the same standard for ALL U.S. public schools; not local standards in curriculum. Texas is currently going wild book banning.

Life is hard enough without making it hard for kids, too. Should be one excellent standard of learning across the nation.
 
Pepper said:
My husband had turned down a big promotion for a gig in Louisiana because we felt there was no way public education could have been as good as New Hampshire. Southern schools with such racial & evangelical problems, less access to big libraries, museums didn't give us much confidence. Public education can be downright excellent if the student lives in a certain area. I believe in the same standard for ALL U.S. public schools; not local standards in curriculum. Texas is currently going wild book banning.

Life is hard enough without making it hard for kids, too. Should be one excellent standard of learning across the nation.
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You and your husband definitely made the smart decision.
I don't know about New Hampshire, but I did have experience with public schools in Louisiana and Texas.. and you would NOT have wanted to send your child/children there!!!
 
We judged our public school in NH by the standard of a young friend we had in a magnet school in NYC and my son's regular class was doing the exact same thing, even better.
 
Pepper said:
We judged our public school in NH by the standard of a young friend we had in a magnet school in NYC and my son's regular class was doing the exact same thing, even better.
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For public schools, it's all about the district in which you live. The sad thing is, parents in failing districts are often financially unable to move to a better school district.
 
One thing in my State they have these news reports about the crisis in our city schools where they say they High School 12th graders are reading on a Kindergarten level. Now what blows my mind if this is the case then how did these students even get to the 12th grade if they are at a Kindergarten reading level? The teachers and the school system are failing these students and I don't mean failing by giving them a failing grade because that is obviously not what is happening. Much of the problem is as has been stated many of these students are not given the proper tools to learn, but also many of these troubled students who are lacking are just thrown aside by the teachers and the schools and let to move through without the skills they need which is extremely wrong. This is just setting up for more failure in the future for these young people and it is sad.
 
Rah-Rah said:
One thing in my State they have these news reports about the crisis in our city schools where they say they High School 12th graders are reading on a Kindergarten level. Now what blows my mind if this is the case then how did these students even get to the 12th grade if they are at a Kindergarten reading level? The teachers and the school system are failing these students and I don't mean failing by giving them a failing grade because that is obviously not what is happening. Much of the problem is as has been stated many of these students are not given the proper tools to learn, but also many of these troubled students who are lacking are just thrown aside by the teachers and the schools and let to move through without the skills they need which is extremely wrong. This is just setting up for more failure in the future for these young people and it is sad.
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It's very hard to fix school districts that have failed for years. There are usually deeply flawed systemic problems including lack of accountability for where funding goes and incompetent staff that ride the system. Governmental entities are rarely successful at coming in and fixing those type entrenched (often for years) problems. From what I've seen, it takes parental involvement and community driven accountability to make a successful school. In most failing districts, socioeconomic problems take parents out of the equation. Even concerned parents have so many struggles day in and day out that there's little time or energy left to advocate for school improvement.
 
I don't understand how we got to the situation we're in regarding the funding of public schools.

Property taxes pay for schools in local districts. Wealthy districts collect lots of taxes and have more funding. They can pay for "extras" such as bands and orchestras and extracurricular activities. It's easier to teach there because the kids are motivated and the parents provide lots of support.

We lived in a town in Westchester County, New York, where the public school was of private school quality, maybe better. The schools in the next town over were terrible. The state tries to even things out but doesn't do much of a job of it.

This just shouldn't be. Without good schools kids don't have a chance at a good life.
 
I know something about this: Through my small business, for the past 20 years I've worked closely with some elite private schools and some designed for the average student. DD teaches in private school, her husband teaches public school. Also my children were educated in private school because after just a couple of years of my daughter being there, I saw that LAUSD was in serious trouble (1990s). So I've had 30 plus years of experience with private schools and quite a bit with public.

In many ways public and (non elite) private schools reversed roles since our own schooldays. Back then, kids with serious behavior problems were expelled from public schools and parents had to come up with other school solutions, usually private.

Now when children don't behave, don't turn in assignments, act inappropriately, and so forth, they get kicked out of private schools. If the action is egregious there's no warning.

Same happens to those unlucky enough to have parents railing against school rules, causing problems with the teachers, or making a general nuisance of themselves. School admins say something like, "You'll need to find a school that's a better fit for your family. Your student needs to clear his locker by the end of the day."

Codes of conduct are part of the contract families sign when enrolling their children. No due process. Private schools hold all the cards. Obviously they are judicious about using this power because they rely on tuition and their reputation. As a principal once explained during an orientation meeting, all parents were paying hefty tuition. They rightly expected their children would not be deeply influenced or distracted by those who chose to not follow school guidelines.

When my children were growing up I wanted them in schools that brooked little behavioral nonsense. Troublemakers were quickly dispatched. Drugs found in a kid's locker or backpack during a random search? Bye-bye. Involved in a few physical altercations on campus? See ya. Inappropriate clothing? Sit in the office until your parents show up, and consider it a serious warning. Extremely inappropriate clothing? Ciao, baby. Homework routinely not completed? You're skating on thin ice. We'll counsel and help you but our patience isn't inexhaustible - you'd better show up for those extra-help periods.

Dear parents, If your child is expelled some of your prepaid tuition may or may not be returned. It's all right there in the contract signed by parents and students, including the waiving of privacy of their locker and backpack contents. Oh, and some off-campus behavior can also trigger expulsion.

This frees up schools to do what they're there for: EDUCATE. When a kid knows his locker might be searched without a moment's notice, he doesn't bring contraband to school nor does he attempt to peddle it to other students while there.

On the other hand, when students have serious home problems (family deaths, serious illnesses, sudden job losses and other catastrophic situations), I've seen private schools organize extraordinary levels of support.

Public schoolsmust accept and accommodate all comers and expulsion is nearly unheard of these days. Disruptive students remain on the rolls - sucking up teachers' time and attention at the expense of the other students.

Private schools may not skim off all the best and brightest or easiest of the easiest, but they sure don't hold onto the worst of the worst or most disruptive.

During pandemic closures local private schools typically returned to in-person schooling the moment they were legally able. Their teachers have no unions. If they didn't want to return to classes they lost their jobs. Period. Public schools - rightly or wrongly - stayed out much longer.

I'm not arguing in either direction, merely pointing out why private schools are an attractive choice. My heart breaks for kids who are far behind and falling ever-farther. We must do something to shore up our public schools.

For the record, when my children were in private school I sometimes politely challenged the rules and frequently prevailed. Other times our family gritted our collective teeth and soldiered through. These were good life lessons for my children - not all situations were 100% fair or to our liking, but sometimes the wiser strategy is to keep the larger goal in mind.
 
StarSong said:
I know something about this: Through my small business, for the past 20 years I've worked closely with some elite private schools and some designed for the average student. DD teaches in private school, her husband teaches public school. Also my children were educated in private school because after just a couple of years of my daughter being there, I saw that LAUSD was in serious trouble (1990s). So I've had 30 plus years of experience with private schools and quite a bit with public.

In many ways public and (non elite) private schools reversed roles since our own schooldays. Back then, kids with serious behavior problems were expelled from public schools and parents had to come up with other school solutions, usually private.

Now when children don't behave, don't turn in assignments, act inappropriately, and so forth, they get kicked out of private schools. If the action is egregious there's no warning.

Same happens to those unlucky enough to have parents railing against school rules, causing problems with the teachers, or making a general nuisance of themselves. School admins say something like, "You'll need to find a school that's a better fit for your family. Your student needs to clear his locker by the end of the day."

Codes of conduct are part of the contract families sign when enrolling their children. No due process. Private schools hold all the cards. Obviously they are judicious about using this power because they rely on tuition and their reputation. As a principal once explained during an orientation meeting, all parents were paying hefty tuition. They rightly expected their children would not be deeply influenced or distracted by those who chose to not follow school guidelines.

When my children were growing up I wanted them in schools that brooked little behavioral nonsense. Troublemakers were quickly dispatched. Drugs found in a kid's locker or backpack during a random search? Bye-bye. Involved in a few physical altercations on campus? See ya. Inappropriate clothing? Sit in the office until your parents show up, and consider it a serious warning. Extremely inappropriate clothing? Ciao, baby. Homework routinely not completed? You're skating on thin ice. We'll counsel and help you but our patience isn't inexhaustible - you'd better show up for those extra-help periods.

Dear parents, If your child is expelled some of your prepaid tuition may or may not be returned. It's all right there in the contract signed by parents and students, including the waiving of privacy of their locker and backpack contents. Oh, and some off-campus behavior can also trigger expulsion.

This frees up schools to do what they're there for: EDUCATE. When a kid knows his locker might be searched without a moment's notice, he doesn't bring contraband to school nor does he attempt to peddle it to other students while there.

On the other hand, when students have serious home problems (family deaths, serious illnesses, sudden job losses and other catastrophic situations), I've seen private schools organize extraordinary levels of support.

Public schoolsmust accept and accommodate all comers and expulsion is nearly unheard of these days. Disruptive students remain on the rolls - sucking up teachers' time and attention at the expense of the other students.

Private schools may not skim off all the best and brightest or easiest of the easiest, but they sure don't hold onto the worst of the worst or most disruptive.

During pandemic closures local private schools typically returned to in-person schooling the moment they were legally able. Their teachers have no unions. If they didn't want to return to classes they lost their jobs. Period. Public schools - rightly or wrongly - stayed out much longer.

I'm not arguing in either direction, merely pointing out why private schools are an attractive choice. My heart breaks for kids who are far behind and falling ever-farther. We must do something to shore up our public schools.

For the record, when my children were in private school I sometimes politely challenged the rules and frequently prevailed. Other times our family gritted our collective teeth and soldiered through. These were good life lessons for my children - not all situations were 100% fair or to our liking, but sometimes the wiser strategy is to keep the larger goal in mind.
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Wow, excellent post.
 
@StarSong, that's exactly how private schools are run in my area. My cousin and her husband are one of the most successful and prominent couples in their small town. Their daughter had several angry outbursts at school and threatened by tone--not even a specific threat--a girl her ex boyfriend asked out. Other students heard it and expressed concern to administration. Even though it it was her senior year and she had been at the school since elementary, the daughter was expelled due to that incident and her history of anger. It was a wake up call for my cousin who stopped giving so much time and energy to her social life and invested more in her child ...don't think that would've happened had administration not acted. So far, her investment seems to have worked though she left it a little late. Her daughter is currently pursuing a master's degree and has sought counseling again on her own now that she's mid 20s.
 
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This Covid pandemic has created a real mess....for the students, parents, and school employees. Students and parents don't know, from week to week, just what the school rules and schedules will be. Teachers and school bus drivers are out sick, or have resigned...so staffing issues are a constant concern.

So far, our young Great Grandkids rural schools have remained fairly stable, but some of the cities in the State are in a constant crisis.
 
Geezer Garage said:
Government has no interest in improving education. The last thing they want is an educated, informed electorate. Status quo is the mission, The rich get richer, and the poor, and middle class, get just enough to keep the machine running. Mike
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I don't believe that for a minute. But to really improve schools, you have to step on a lot of toes. Taxpayers, teachers (and their unions), parents, kids, all have to be ready and willing to change.
 

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