San Francisco boycotts over half of the USA.

Shalimar said:
In Canada, abortion and birth control are readily available, have been for decades.
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Same in the US, Shali, since the mid to late-60s.

A few states are more restrictive than others - i.e., parental consent or parental knowledge required if patient is legally a minor, or prior counsel with a family therapist required, or no abortion after 3rd trimester - but no law prohibits a young lady or woman from going out of her state to get a safe, legal abortion and avoid her state's requirements.

And most (if not all) states closed their abortion clinics seceral years ago so that women will get this service at an OB/GYN's office instead. This was because a bunch of abortion clinics came under investigation for insurance fraud, illegal or unapproved fetal tissue sales, over-billing the state, and questionable sanitation.
 

Murrmurr said:
Same in the US, Shali, since the mid to late-60s.

A few states are more restrictive than others - i.e., parental consent or parental knowledge required if patient is legally a minor, or prior counsel with a family therapist required, or no abortion after 3rd trimester - but no law prohibits a young lady or woman from going out of her state to get a safe, legal abortion and avoid her state's requirements.
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Not correct. Look up what Idaho just did.
 

StarSong said:
I agree with SF's stance on LGBTQ and women's rights. As they say, money talks, b******* walks. As with any other entity, the city of San Francisco has the right to choose where to spend its money.

As for California haters, first take the plank out of your own eye so you can see clearly enough to remove the speck from someone else's. There isn't a state in the union nor a country on the planet without serious flaws. We're all just doing the best we can.
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I'm not a "California hater," just an objective observer. California has the highest taxes in the country and the highest number of illegal immigrants. It ranks fourth in the net number of people (legal residents) moving out of the state. San Francisco and Los Angeles have severe homelessness problems, exacerbated by wrongheaded policies at the state and local level. All major cities in the state are experiencing double-digit increases in major crime. Housing prices are the highest in the country, mostly due to lack of supply, which is due to wrongheaded policies. So are gas prices (taxes again). The proposed rail transit project is a fiasco, a global joke. The unemployment rate is more than 50 percent higher than the national average.

Maybe one-party politics, unrestrained progressivism and undiluted political correctness isn't the way to go?
 
JimBob1952 said:
I'm not a "California hater," just an objective observer. California has the highest taxes in the country and the highest number of illegal immigrants. It ranks fourth in the net number of people (legal residents) moving out of the state. San Francisco and Los Angeles have severe homelessness problems, exacerbated by wrongheaded policies at the state and local level. All major cities in the state are experiencing double-digit increases in major crime. Housing prices are the highest in the country, mostly due to lack of supply, which is due to wrongheaded policies. So are gas prices (taxes again). The proposed rail transit project is a fiasco, a global joke. The unemployment rate is more than 50 percent higher than the national average.

Maybe one-party politics, unrestrained progressivism and undiluted political correctness isn't the way to go?
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Too funny! Reminds me of a news channel whose motto is "Fair & Balanced." :ROFLMAO:
 
San Francisco - which FYI is the smallest geographical city and county in the STATE of California - passed these various restrictions on city government funded travel and expenses. San Francisco has a city budget for 2021-22 of $12.6 billion (nope, not a misprint!).

As pointed out, these SF city laws are mostly due to anti-gay and anti-minority issues in other states. These restrictions have nothing to do with personal travel or investments of any type. Yes, they are symbolic. But they are also reflections of what many others living outside SF believe in.

San Francisco is the gateway to NorCA due to the SFO airport. It is no longer even the business center of the area, due to Silicon Valley, the University of CA network, and the rise of exurb business parks. SF is only one of nine counties and 101 cities that make up the San Francisco Bay Area region, which does NOT include (for example) the more populous San Jose/Silicon Valley; the Wine Country counties of Napa, Sonoma, Mendocino; the state capitol Sacramento and Delta regional towns, nor the Sierra counties.

As for Hetch Hetchy reservoir, it took an act of Congress to approve the dam:

" Hetch Hetchy Environmental Debates
Between 1908 and 1913, Congress debated whether to make a water resource available or preserve a wilderness when the growing city of San Francisco, California proposed building a dam in the Hetch Hetchy Valley to provide a steady water supply. The Hetch Hetchy Valley was within Yosemite National Park and protected by the federal government, leaving it up to Congress to decide the valley’s fate. National opinion divided between giving San Francisco the right to dam the valley and preserving the valley from development.

...In the end, Congress passed legislation that enabled the creation of a dam in the Hetch Hetchy Valley. President Woodrow Wilson signed the bill into law on December 19, 1913. Although the preservationists lost this battle, the damming of the Hetch Hetchy Valley raised public awareness about the importance of preserving nature, and helped justify the creation of the National Park Service in 1916.
– https://www.archives.gov/legislative/features/hetch-hetchy
 
Brookswood said:
It seems that San Francisco prohibits the city government from doing business with companies whose US headquarters are in state that do things the Frisco disapproves of.
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If it prohibits against dealing with entities that violate peoples rights (voting, their bodies, etc) then I think it is laudable. I feel like some of the laws lately sound more like what you'd expect in Saudi Arabia not in the United States. I haven't forgotten that a few years ago one of every three voters in my state voted in favor of keeping slavery in the state constitution. What if it had been the majority? I'd hope San Francisco and every other city and state would have boycotted us.
 
JimBob1952 said:
It ranks fourth in the net number of people (legal residents) moving out of the state. San Francisco and Los Angeles have severe homelessness problems, exacerbated by wrongheaded policies at the state and local level. All major cities in the state are experiencing double-digit increases in major crime. Housing prices are the highest in the country, mostly due to lack of supply, which is due to wrongheaded policies. So are gas prices (taxes again). The proposed rail transit project is a fiasco, a global joke. The unemployment rate is more than 50 percent higher than the national average.
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Let's try these facts:
- California exodus is just a myth, massive UC research project finds
SFGATE July 8, 2021
https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/California-exodus-is-just-a-myth-massive-UC-16301134.php

Despite the popular belief that residents are fleeing California, there is not in fact a statewide exodus, new research out of the University of California finds.

The results of the project contradict many of the myths surrounding California and its population. For one, while residents are moving out of state, they are not doing so at "unusual rates." Similarly, the research found no evidence of "millionaire flight" from California and notes that the state continues to attract as much venture capital as all other U.S. states combined, despite the recent exodus of Hewlett-Packard and Oracle.

The report did reveal net migration out of San Francisco during the pandemic. However, about two-thirds of people who left the city remained in the Bay Area, while 80% stayed in California, which is consistent with earlier trends.

Now, some studies do show a decrease (why we, along with several other states, lost a House seat). However, note the economic impact:

A New Demographic Surprise for California: Population Loss
California Had 182,083 Fewer Residents in 2020. Here’s Why.
State data released on Friday showed that California’s population decreased in 2020, reflecting a decades-long pattern of slow growth.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/07/...on=click&module=In Other News&pgtype=Homepage

A recent analysis of 2020 census data that was done by Mr. Johnson at the Public Policy Institute of California found that those who move in are “more likely to be working age, to be employed, and to earn high wages — and are less likely to be in poverty — than those who move away.” Numerically, however, the analysis found that 4.9 million people moved into California from other parts of the country, while 6.1 million Californians decamped to other states.
====

We export many things from CA - an extremely high percentage of the country's food supply, and a lot of elderly and poor people. You're welcome!

There is no easy answer to housing and homelessness. If there was only one answer, these twin issues - they go together - would not be a primary consideration in EVERY major city.

"Wrongheaded policies" cause high RE prices? I've rebutted that on Quora several times, and no need to do it again. Let's just say that on the GW forums, one member who lives in Chicago cannot believe how housing prices have risen. There is, according to one government study done recently, not a single major metropolitan city where a family of 4 earning average wages, can afford to buy a home. NOT ONE, in the entire U.S.

I'm fine with gas taxes. I remember what it was like before the EPA (remember the river catching fire - wasn't that Cincinnati?) and smog laws. I have asthma, and it wasn't fun, not being able to breeze without painful wheezing.

Actually a great majority of voters would like to kill the bullet train project, one of Newsom's not so great ideas. I'll give him a reluctant pass on that, he's done reasonably well (better than I thought he would) so far. Notice that Arnold Schwarzenegger, our former Gov and moderate Republican, works very well with Newsom (they've done a number of projects together).

Our unemployment is higher because our hospitality service industry is MASSIVE. Which is why I can't get hard #s on how many restaurants are in our county, because there are so many, plus communal kitchens, pop-ups, food trucks, caterers, and private chefs. The pandemic hurt a lot of those folks, although our restaurant openings are higher than ever (something I do keep track of informally, as I do a foodie newsletter on a regular basis).

CA is always the last to go into a recession and the last to come out of it. Nothing new about that, it's been that way since I've been here (1989) through all four or five recessions.
 
Lethe200 said:
Let's try these facts:
- California exodus is just a myth, massive UC research project finds
SFGATE July 8, 2021
https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/California-exodus-is-just-a-myth-massive-UC-16301134.php

Despite the popular belief that residents are fleeing California, there is not in fact a statewide exodus, new research out of the University of California finds.

The results of the project contradict many of the myths surrounding California and its population. For one, while residents are moving out of state, they are not doing so at "unusual rates." Similarly, the research found no evidence of "millionaire flight" from California and notes that the state continues to attract as much venture capital as all other U.S. states combined, despite the recent exodus of Hewlett-Packard and Oracle.

The report did reveal net migration out of San Francisco during the pandemic. However, about two-thirds of people who left the city remained in the Bay Area, while 80% stayed in California, which is consistent with earlier trends.

Now, some studies do show a decrease (why we, along with several other states, lost a House seat). However, note the economic impact:

A New Demographic Surprise for California: Population Loss
California Had 182,083 Fewer Residents in 2020. Here’s Why.
State data released on Friday showed that California’s population decreased in 2020, reflecting a decades-long pattern of slow growth.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/07/us/california-population-loss.html?action=click&module=In Other News&pgtype=Homepage

A recent analysis of 2020 census data that was done by Mr. Johnson at the Public Policy Institute of California found that those who move in are “more likely to be working age, to be employed, and to earn high wages — and are less likely to be in poverty — than those who move away.” Numerically, however, the analysis found that 4.9 million people moved into California from other parts of the country, while 6.1 million Californians decamped to other states.
====

We export many things from CA - an extremely high percentage of the country's food supply, and a lot of elderly and poor people. You're welcome!

There is no easy answer to housing and homelessness. If there was only one answer, these twin issues - they go together - would not be a primary consideration in EVERY major city.

"Wrongheaded policies" cause high RE prices? I've rebutted that on Quora several times, and no need to do it again. Let's just say that on the GW forums, one member who lives in Chicago cannot believe how housing prices have risen. There is, according to one government study done recently, not a single major metropolitan city where a family of 4 earning average wages, can afford to buy a home. NOT ONE, in the entire U.S.

I'm fine with gas taxes. I remember what it was like before the EPA (remember the river catching fire - wasn't that Cincinnati?) and smog laws. I have asthma, and it wasn't fun, not being able to breeze without painful wheezing.

Actually a great majority of voters would like to kill the bullet train project, one of Newsom's not so great ideas. I'll give him a reluctant pass on that, he's done reasonably well (better than I thought he would) so far. Notice that Arnold Schwarzenegger, our former Gov and moderate Republican, works very well with Newsom (they've done a number of projects together).

Our unemployment is higher because our hospitality service industry is MASSIVE. Which is why I can't get hard #s on how many restaurants are in our county, because there are so many, plus communal kitchens, pop-ups, food trucks, caterers, and private chefs. The pandemic hurt a lot of those folks, although our restaurant openings are higher than ever (something I do keep track of informally, as I do a foodie newsletter on a regular basis).

CA is always the last to go into a recession and the last to come out of it. Nothing new about that, it's been that way since I've been here (1989) through all four or five recessions.
Click to expand...

Thanks. You just acknowledged that everything I posted was true. You gave some reasons for why these things are so.

To wit:

People are leaving California (true) "Numerically, however, the analysis found that 4.9 million people moved into California from other parts of the country, while 6.1 million Californians decamped to other states."

Wrongheaded policies? Try getting a permit to build anything in California. And house prices are the highest in the country. (true)

The bullet train project is a fiasco, as you admit.

Your unemployment rate is very high, as you admit.

You didn't even bother with the crime rates.

Homelessness is a problem everywhere, but it's worse in California.


I'm glad you want to defend your state. I'm also glad I don't live there. And you're probably glad I don't live there either.
 
JonSR77 said:
isn't that the list of the former Confederate States? :)
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No. Did you snooze through your US History class? I had two great teachers, but I can also imagine a few who would have tempted me to snooze.
 
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It's best to work out problems. IMO, banning, canceling and shutting up other people and groups who think differently smacks of a sanctimonious air of superiority that is not good for vigorous discussion and group problem solving.

FWIW, I think California has a lot going for it. I love the diversity of climate and geography.
 
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>>Try getting a permit to build anything in California. And house prices are the highest in the country. (true)>>

Yes, it takes a while to get permits. But remodeling and new commercial/residential projects are going up all the time. Contractors are in seventh heaven with the lockdown, they can't keep up with business! And no, it's not all interior stuff, either, LOL.

Yes, house prices are high - on the coast. Live in Bakersfield, California City, Reedley, Bridgeport, et. al., and you're below the $350K mark. San Diego County is now the least affordable housing market in the country. Dethroned SF just last year, in fact. But that's not remarkable that house prices are high in SF; it simply doesn't geographically have any space. You can walk across SF in a few hours; it's only 7x7 miles. I live 20 minutes from SF and 7 miles doesn't even get me out of my town!

Having grown up on the south side of Chicago, urban crime is what it is. Doesn't get me all excited, never did. In a country where multiple-victim shootings happen - in 2021 there were 703 mass shootings in the US - most urban crime is the smash-and-grab kind.

Do bad things happen to good people in CA? Yes - just like Breonna Taylor and George Floyd, bad things can happen anywhere, anytime. Cities are by definition crowded and congested; I don't think there's any major city in the US where you could point and say someone would be 100% safe from anything bad happening to them.
 
One of my cousins and family lived in Berkley CA. for most of his working career. When they retired, several years ago, they moved to Colorado, into a nice suburb near Denver. They live quite nicely in Colorado, on their retirement funds/benefits....compared to what they would be doing had they stayed in CA.
 
Lethe200 said:
>>Try getting a permit to build anything in California. And house prices are the highest in the country. (true)>>

Yes, it takes a while to get permits. But remodeling and new commercial/residential projects are going up all the time. Contractors are in seventh heaven with the lockdown, they can't keep up with business! And no, it's not all interior stuff, either, LOL.

Yes, house prices are high - on the coast. Live in Bakersfield, California City, Reedley, Bridgeport, et. al., and you're below the $350K mark. San Diego County is now the least affordable housing market in the country. Dethroned SF just last year, in fact. But that's not remarkable that house prices are high in SF; it simply doesn't geographically have any space. You can walk across SF in a few hours; it's only 7x7 miles. I live 20 minutes from SF and 7 miles doesn't even get me out of my town!

Having grown up on the south side of Chicago, urban crime is what it is. Doesn't get me all excited, never did. In a country where multiple-victim shootings happen - in 2021 there were 703 mass shootings in the US - most urban crime is the smash-and-grab kind.

Do bad things happen to good people in CA? Yes - just like Breonna Taylor and George Floyd, bad things can happen anywhere, anytime. Cities are by definition crowded and congested; I don't think there's any major city in the US where you could point and say someone would be 100% safe from anything bad happening to them.
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I'm sorry urban crime doesn't get you all excited. 703 people died in mass shootings in the US last year. That's out of about 25,000 homicides. I'll respectfully disengage as we don't agree on any of these subjects.

I post on a lot of non-political subjects and hope to see you in those forums.
 
Some more input on the San Francisco ban.

In 2016, then-Supervisor Scott Wiener passed an ordinance making San Francisco the first city to ban travel to states with repressive anti-LGBT laws or contract with businesses headquartered there.

I think this is where the wheels run off.

It will come as little surprise to anyone familiar with the M.O. of San Francisco government that we have no tests nor audits nor analysis nor methodology to determine if our travel bans or boycotts are making any difference for the good.


I think most would agree the intent was good. No research that "might" have uncovered businesses that were openly against the LGBT & later abortion issues & target those might have gained the traction the original idea sought. Why undoing the ordinance that grew in scope & isn't making the impact other than exposing why poor thought was the outcome isn't repealed doesn't make sense to me.
 
>>California's pension liabilities are horrible,>>

Yes, that's why with a budget surplus these past two years and another even bigger surplus coming up this year, CA has made additional pension fund payments. Also, just FYI: pension healthcare benefits (a large part of the pension deficit) are generally not guaranteed by any state, according to multiple state SCOTUS decisions.

Also, a lot of people don't understand how the CalPERS pension fund actually works. Unlike most states, joining the pension fund is NOT mandatory for any city or county government agencies. Many join, but many do not and are self-insured.

So for instance, my spouse has a CalPERS pension. But the terms and benefits of his pension are entirely separate and different from another government agency, even in the same city or county. Each agency negotiates with its unions what their contract is - so think of one pension fund covering 5000 different people, each one having a separate agreement with CalPERS on how much they contribute, and what they will receive in benefits!

The CA SCOTUS has already ruled in a narrow legal decision that CalPERS can legally reduce pensions (or even eliminate them, but that's rather drastic) in cases of member agency declining contributions. CalPERS total assets are $469B as of June 2021.
 
JimBob1952 said:
I'm sorry urban crime doesn't get you all excited. 703 people died in mass shootings in the US last year. That's out of about 25,000 homicides. I'll respectfully disengage as we don't agree on any of these subjects.

I post on a lot of non-political subjects and hope to see you in those forums.
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please note, that we do have a survivor of a mass shooting on the forum. Please be respectful about mentioning this issue and avoid it if you can.
 
JonSR77 said:
Oh, let me explain my "incident" with the Hell's Angels more clearly. Because it was actually very weird and ended up being fun.

So, I am at this rest stop, a gang of those bikers come in...maybe 20 or 30.

At the time, I am doing something incredibly weird and nerdy. I am eating a grapefruit like an apple, holding the entire thing in my hand and eating it like an apple.

One of the "Angels" think this is incredibly funny and he decides to pick on me. He walks over towards me and goes, "Nice grapefruit."


And I knew that was a prelude to a beating.

Now, I knew that I had another grapefruit in my backpack.

So, I quickly unzipped my pack, got out the other grapefruit...and I went into a mock quarterback stance, like I was playing football.

I called out signals and threw the Hell's Angel guy a (really good) football pass with the grapefruit. And he caught it. He thought that was the funniest thing. And he just smiled at me and let me go.

Weird moment in time, but fun (at least looking back on it).

"Blue 82, Green 27, hut, hut, hut..."
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what, you guys never played "grapefruit football" with a Hell's Angel?
 
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