'This war shows that the western consciousness lives in the sewer.' - Vijay Prashad

There are endless legitimate criticisms of just about any government on earth.


But even though that is clearly the case, it does not mean that there is some kind of parity between the faults of the US and Putin.

They are a different order of magnitude.

I would not take the Ukraine war as a way of seeing the US and the West as perfectly pristine.

But let's not lose sight of who Putin is. The entire world community has condemned him.

UN vote was 141 against Russia and only 5 for.

And the UN said he committed war crimes against Syria. And the UN is going to shortly confirm that he has been committing war crimes against Ukraine.
 
There's a few things about that war that we should remember.

The US "shock and awe" campaign was done with the help of the UK, Australia, and Poland, all members of NATO.

A British inquiry in 2016 (the Chilcot Report) said that not every peaceful alternative had been examined, and that the UK and US had undermined the United Nations Security Counsel by declaring war. This is arguable. It can also be argued that the UN Security Counsel is corrupt.

Iraq's invasion of Kuwait is what got NATO all excited. 9/11 brought everything to a boil.

I'm not saying everything was done right, of course, I'm just saying it wasn't out of the blue.
 

America is very keen on interfering with the politics of other countries.....and what good has it done? It suggests that American society is so perfect that it has the right to impose itself on everyone else.
We have known for some time that this invasion was a strong possibility, which is why we were reluctant to allow Ukraine to join NATO The Ukrainians have proved themselves to be a strong, courageous people. They would be a positive asset to the EU. I hope Putin has been surprised at the support the country has had from the rest of Europe.
The Russians were also driven out of Afghanistan....although once again, there were up against a peasant army. What does this say about the Russian forces? Putin may resort to chemical and even nuclear weapons simply because his land forces are simply not capable of conventional fighting.
(I think those countries not directly involved should keep their negative opinions to themselves).
 
While I don't always agree with the US seemingly interfering in other countries, I am grateful that the USA is 'policing' the western world including the South Pacific. With China now involved in the South Pacific, and increasing its military strength there, thank goodness for the US.
While I would like to see the US bring in its military might against Putin, Biden knows that war monger Putin would love a chance to release nuclear and chemical weapons, if that happened god help us all.
Thank you USA for being there.
 
Lavinia said:
America is very keen on interfering with the politics of other countries.....and what good has it done? It suggests that American society is so perfect that it has the right to impose itself on everyone else.
We have known for some time that this invasion was a strong possibility, which is why we were reluctant to allow Ukraine to join NATO The Ukrainians have proved themselves to be a strong, courageous people. They would be a positive asset to the EU. I hope Putin has been surprised at the support the country has had from the rest of Europe.
The Russians were also driven out of Afghanistan....although once again, there were up against a peasant army. What does this say about the Russian forces? Putin may resort to chemical and even nuclear weapons simply because his land forces are simply not capable of conventional fighting.
(I think those countries not directly involved should keep their negative opinions to themselves
Click to expand...

If you feel that way, then it should also apply to the thousands of cheer leaders on social media pumping up the war with their opinions? ( hint )
 
Not surprising that someone from India, that decided not to vote against Russia in NATO
Lavinia said:
America is very keen on interfering with the politics of other countries.....and what good has it done? It suggests that American society is so perfect that it has the right to impose itself on everyone else.
We have known for some time that this invasion was a strong possibility, which is why we were reluctant to allow Ukraine to join NATO The Ukrainians have proved themselves to be a strong, courageous people. They would be a positive asset to the EU. I hope Putin has been surprised at the support the country has had from the rest of Europe.
The Russians were also driven out of Afghanistan....although once again, there were up against a peasant army. What does this say about the Russian forces? Putin may resort to chemical and even nuclear weapons simply because his land forces are simply not capable of conventional fighting.
(I think those countries not directly involved should keep their negative opinions to themselves).
Click to expand...
While I agree with your other comments, why are you so negative against the US? Is your country so perfect?

I recall you are in the UK where your Royals are currently in Jamaica apologizing for the oppression they enacting on their country. And Barbados has ceded from the UK. Is Jamaica next? America interfering with the politics of other countries? Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle black. (n)
 
Murrmurr said:
There's a few things about that war that we should remember.

The US "shock and awe" campaign was done with the help of the UK, Australia, and Poland, all members of NATO.

A British inquiry in 2016 (the Chilcot Report) said that not every peaceful alternative had been examined, and that the UK and US had undermined the United Nations Security Counsel by declaring war. This is arguable. It can also be argued that the UN Security Counsel is corrupt.

Iraq's invasion of Kuwait is what got NATO all excited. 9/11 brought everything to a boil.

I'm not saying everything was done right, of course, I'm just saying it wasn't out of the blue.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with you, it wasn't just the US.
 
Lavinia said:
America is very keen on interfering with the politics of other countries.....and what good has it done? It suggests that American society is so perfect that it has the right to impose itself on everyone else.
We have known for some time that this invasion was a strong possibility, which is why we were reluctant to allow Ukraine to join NATO The Ukrainians have proved themselves to be a strong, courageous people. They would be a positive asset to the EU. I hope Putin has been surprised at the support the country has had from the rest of Europe.
The Russians were also driven out of Afghanistan....although once again, there were up against a peasant army. What does this say about the Russian forces? Putin may resort to chemical and even nuclear weapons simply because his land forces are simply not capable of conventional fighting.
(I think those countries not directly involved should keep their negative opinions to themselves).
Click to expand...
America's security and prosperity at home are directly linked to the economic and political health of other nations. This is why a system of international security alliances was formed after World War II. All allied nations in the "free world" agreed that the US would be the leader in facilitating economic and political freedom around the world, and to assist the US to defend any nation under direct threat from totalitarian countries or regimes that aggressively threatened their economic, and political freedom.

The "Western World" decided this agreement was prudent as they watched the USSR build a wall around the Eastern Sector of Berlin, and knew the USSR was determined to spread their form of communism.
 
spectratg said:
I'm not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere, specifically President Biden's callout that Putin should be removed from office. All kinds of pundits have criticized Biden for this, instead of focusing on what a brutal, horrible, despicable mass-murderer Putin is.

During the Cold War, many politicians and government officials were so concerned that statements by presidents and other officials not violate the unwritten rules. President Reagan in his 1987 "tear down this wall" speech blew that thinking up. Three years later the Berlin Wall fell and communism in Europe started coming to an end! (Although Russia and their nuclear weapons did not.)

Sometimes saying the right thing at the right time is the right thing to do! I applaud President Biden for what he said.
Click to expand...
I can think of two reasons for pundit's criticism -

For one, it's been rumored that the Ukraine military has been killing innocent people in Donbask for 8 years now. It's supposed to be a fight between Ukrainian forces and anti-Ukrainian forces (Donbask formed their own military), but the people of Donbask say the Ukrainians shoot indiscriminately, and that they killed thousands of innocent people per year. If The West knew this, their support of Ukraine would probably chill.

Secondly, nobody wants Putin to lose his temper.
 

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