The low-skilled immigration debate one won't read about.

David777 said:
Recently @JonSR77 created a thread Politics and Religion that members discussed pros/cons on those subjects. A mix of responses followed. I added a bit about ways one could discuss such without using terms, names that tend to incite and by using links. So the below is a test herein for one such narrow subject, low-skilled immigration. I generally ignore political news and discussions, however immigration is one area with negative impacts to what was for decades a great country, that I see the public being greatly manipulated by those with agendas most politicians, corporations, and their media avoid mentioning instead with their own biased narratives to continue status quos.

A key factor in USA for lack of low end employment opportunities for low skilled Americans, high school diplomate, and youth, homelessness, the urban property crime epidemic, endless residential real estate appreciation squeeze at low end, wealth & wage gap, is well described below in ways that will rarely be discussed in most controlled public news media. This first section below is to show we have a problem with significant real numbers. The second section is a snippet from a longer well crafted essay I highly recommend reading. We citizen peons in the middle of the debate are the prey for their media game.

https://www.newamericaneconomy.org/issues/undocumented-immigrants/

Occupations where Undocumented Immigrants Make up the Largest Share of Workers, 2014
Occupation Share of Workers, Undocumented Number of Undocumented Workers
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Agricultural Workers (All Types) 36.1% 244,459
Grounds Maintenance Workers 26.7% 266,551
Other Food Preparation and Serving-Related Workers, including School Cafeteria Attendants and Hospital Food Service Workers 25.1% 109,223
Textile, Apparel, and Furnishings Workers 23.1% 120,059
Cooks and Food Preparation Workers 22.6% 470,938
Construction Trades Workers 20.0% 1,066,648
Helpers, Construction Trades 19.3% 6,418
Building Cleaning and Pest Control Workers 19.0% 662,014
Food Processing Workers 18.6% 105,993
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https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2017/11/low-skill-immigration-case-restriction/

...In short, the combination of declining native male workforce participation and the demonstrated preference of employers for immigrant labor over natives strongly suggests that many jobs that could go to low-skill natives are in fact being done by recent immigrants, both legal and illegal, especially Hispanics and Asians. The result is a dysfunctional, self-reinforcing equilibrium, both economic and political, that is divisive and destructive of the well-being of less-educated Americans and their communities and, ultimately, of the national interest. Hispanic construction workers labor a few miles away from inner cities where large numbers of prime-age black men have no formal employment and are disproportionately involved in criminal activity. Eastern European immigrants serve affluent tourists at New England shore resorts not far from communities, whether urban or rural, where growing numbers of American men are jobless. Native work participation rates are steadily dropping while businesses lobby Washington for an uninterrupted flow of new, lowskill foreign workers.

The reluctance of business owners to seek out and employ unskilled black workers, and especially men, often means that the connection between black unemployment and the push for more foreign workers is studiously avoided. Policy elites advocate for what is effectively an open borders regime while supporting a divisive multiculturalism at home. Realistic discussions of actual behavior and cultural differences are banished as racist and xenophobic. A racism narrative becomes the sole explanation for persistent high levels of black unemployment. As to the white working class, job shortages are blamed, while immigrant labor continues in demand.

Why restrict immigration? Replacing American workers with fresh waves of low-skill immigrants is not a viable long-term strategy for our country. Despite some immediate economic benefits for employers, large shareholders, and consumers, albeit with substantial offsetting fiscal costs, mass importation of low-skill workers is both demoralizing and risky in the longer term.

Even apart from institutional and cultural effects—which deserve separate, extended treatment—mass low-wage immigration is demoralizing because it amounts to a strategy of replacing and displacing less-skilled American citizens from the workforce with no thought to the broader economic, social, and psychological effects on the workers themselves, their communities, and society as a whole...
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Brilliant article. Since our population in the US is rapidly aging and the younger people have no interest in menial work, there is no one to fill these jobs. Immigrants are happy to fill these positions. I live in Texas, and if not for immigrants who are hard workers there would be no repairmen, gardeners, installers, etc.

Additionally, when my mother was in assisted living, most of her caregivers were immigrants. If not for them, she wouldn't have lived a comfortable life. So few American-born citizens are willing to do these jobs.

We should thank our lucky stars for immigrants who are willing to do the hard work when our lazy Gen Z'ers think they can earn a living on Instagram.
 

I'm glad that someone has brought this topic out in the open.
So far, you have been concentrating on the immigrants from the South. You have not mentioned those from the East, mainly the Muslims. Is no-one aware of their agenda...gradually displacing the white culture and replacing it with their own? People dismiss this subject as racist, and refuse to acknowledge what is happening.
It is happening in the UK too, but so many people either don't care or don't believe it. Marine Le Pen is promising to deport thousands of immigrants from France, so it is obviously a major problem there too.
 
Lavinia said:
I'm glad that someone has brought this topic out in the open.
So far, you have been concentrating on the immigrants from the South. You have not mentioned those from the East, mainly the Muslims. Is no-one aware of their agenda...gradually displacing the white culture and replacing it with their own? People dismiss this subject as racist, and refuse to acknowledge what is happening.
It is happening in the UK too, but so many people either don't care or don't believe it. Marine Le Pen is promising to deport thousands of immigrants from France, so it is obviously a major problem there too.
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Your racism has no bounds, does it? Your comments about Muslims are despicable. What are you so afraid of?

Also, if you support Marine Le Pen, who supports Putin, that says a lot about you. (n)

You make fun of the US, but you are so much worse than some of our brain-dead citizens that believe whatever they are told.
 

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squatting dog said:
There is really a Simple solution to all this... View attachment 216951

Secure our national borders,
Detain and expel all illegal aliens,
Declare English the only official language,
Strictly enforce Equal Opportunity, eliminating all discriminatory diversity and equity policies,
Outlaw the teaching or promotion of critical race theory and sex-oriented curricula for children,
Establish a simplified and equitable tax system for individuals and businesses to limit both the
Internal Revenue Service and the impact of lobbyists,
Begin moving federal departments out of Washington D.C. to other locations in the country and
hire local employees,
Rebuild from the ground up, the Department of Justice, the FBI and all intelligence agencies,
Restore energy self-sufficiency,
Maintain a strict constructionist interpretation of the Constitution,
Limit Congressional terms to a total of 12 years either in the House of Representatives or the
Senate or a combination thereof,
All current members of Congress who have exceeded the 12-year limit cannot run for reelection,
Remove all special benefits for members of Congress and government officials beyond those available
to ordinary citizens,
With the exception of funds necessary for the defense of the nation, establish a yearly across-the-board
5% reduction in federal government funding with the immediate elimination of the Departments of Homeland
Security, Energy, Education and the Environmental Protection Agency.
Have a yearly 10% reduction in foreign aid to be reinvested in the nation.

View attachment 216954 Or maybe wishful thinking.
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All sounds good to me, but then we would be living in a Utopian society and the politicians have a great fear of that word, Utopia.
 
Immigration law states immigrants must be free of disease, learn english, and have enough funds to be self supporting for a period of time......not to mention arriving through the proper channels. Otherwise they are to be sent back. Look it up and read it.
 
I believe some get rattled by the word "illegal". You can" illegally "park. And you can illegally enter the US, but that doesn't mean you are immediately a child molesting, psychopath, serial killer. The present migration to the US isn't solely for financial gain, it's a desperate struggle for life. I don't think there will be a sensible solution until someone figures out, they need the Latino vote.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I believe some get rattled by the word "illegal". You can" illegally "park. And you can illegally enter the US, but that doesn't mean you are immediately a child molesting, psychopath, serial killer. The present migration to the US isn't solely for financial gain, it's a desperate struggle for life. I don't think there will be a sensible solution until someone figures out, they need the Latino vote.
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And if all those people who broke federal law to get over the border put the same amount of energy into making life in their OWN country better, the world would change for the better. And just because you don't LIKE a law doesn't make it any less a law.
 
David777 said:
immigration is one area with negative impacts to what was for decades a great country
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1753​


“Those who come hither are generally of the most ignorant Stupid Sort of their own Nation. … Few of their children in the Country learn English. … In short unless the stream of their importation could be turned from this to other colonies, as you very judiciously propose, they will soon so outnumber us, that all the advantages we have will not in My Opinion be able to preserve our language, and even our Government will become precarious.”


- Benjamin Franklin on German immigrants
 
HoneyNut said:

1753​


“Those who come hither are generally of the most ignorant Stupid Sort of their own Nation. … Few of their children in the Country learn English. … In short unless the stream of their importation could be turned from this to other colonies, as you very judiciously propose, they will soon so outnumber us, that all the advantages we have will not in My Opinion be able to preserve our language, and even our Government will become precarious.”


- Benjamin Franklin on German immigrants
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HoneyNut said:

1924​


“I would build a wall of steel, a wall as high as Heaven, against the admission of a single one of those Southern Europeans who never thought the thoughts or spoke the language of a democracy in their lives.”


- Georgia Gov. Clifford Walker at a Ku Klux Klan rally
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Thank you, Honey Nut.
 
Will note since it does bare on my bias, I do advocate a much lower USA and world population, growth, and development, for the sake of our suffering planet's life and health. And towards a narrow focus of discussion, will add a few more snippets from my link addressing main conclusions of low-skilled immigration. And again members, please read the link's essay:

In short, the ethnographic literature on employer preferences, the historical and demographic evidence of steady shifts from native workers to immigrant labor in key industries, and the accounts gleaned from lawsuits filed by native workers alleging discrimination are all highly suggestive evidence that immigration contributes to job loss and unemployment among low-skill natives...

that native workforce participation has steadily declined as low-wage immigration has increased and is now at historic lows. That situation tells us that immigrants are performing entry-level work that less-educated native workers are not doing, even though low-skill Americans are increasingly available to perform these tasks. The second points to an extensive ethnographic literature on employer preferences, which has not until now been brought into the debate on low-wage immigration. That research shows that businesses widely regard American-born low-skill employees as less desirable than immigrants. In addition, there is evidence that businesses actively work to recruit immigrants and avoid native workers, with black entry-level employees the least favored...

In short, the combination of declining native male workforce participation and the demonstrated preference of employers for immigrant labor over natives strongly suggests that many jobs that could go to low-skill natives are in fact being done by recent immigrants, both legal and illegal, especially Hispanics and Asians. The result is a dysfunctional, self-reinforcing equilibrium, both economic and political, that is divisive and destructive of the well-being of less-educated Americans and their communities and, ultimately, of the national interest.
 
David777 said:
Will note since it does bare on my bias, I do advocate a much lower USA and world population, growth, and development, for the sake of our suffering planet's life and health. And towards a narrow focus of discussion, will add a few more snippets from my link addressing main conclusions of low-skilled immigration. And again members, please read the link's essay:

In short, the ethnographic literature on employer preferences, the historical and demographic evidence of steady shifts from native workers to immigrant labor in key industries, and the accounts gleaned from lawsuits filed by native workers alleging discrimination are all highly suggestive evidence that immigration contributes to job loss and unemployment among low-skill natives...

that native workforce participation has steadily declined as low-wage immigration has increased and is now at historic lows. That situation tells us that immigrants are performing entry-level work that less-educated native workers are not doing, even though low-skill Americans are increasingly available to perform these tasks. The second points to an extensive ethnographic literature on employer preferences, which has not until now been brought into the debate on low-wage immigration. That research shows that businesses widely regard American-born low-skill employees as less desirable than immigrants. In addition, there is evidence that businesses actively work to recruit immigrants and avoid native workers, with black entry-level employees the least favored...

In short, the combination of declining native male workforce participation and the demonstrated preference of employers for immigrant labor over natives strongly suggests that many jobs that could go to low-skill natives are in fact being done by recent immigrants, both legal and illegal, especially Hispanics and Asians. The result is a dysfunctional, self-reinforcing equilibrium, both economic and political, that is divisive and destructive of the well-being of less-educated Americans and their communities and, ultimately, of the national interest.
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All of this presumes that "available" low-skilled American citizens WANT those jobs at those rates of pay, and are willing to develop the skills required.

Immigrants - documented or not - willingly exchange hard work at low paid, unsavory employment for the opportunity of a better tomorrow for themselves and their children.

Let's also not ignore nor minimize the roles played by our military and CIA as the US destabilized governments we deemed unfriendly, and destroyed much of the social order in Guatemala, El Salvador, Panama and other countries south of our borders. The pervasive crime and predatory gangs that took root after our meddling have created massive waves of desperate migration. We are reaping what we so callously sowed.

Climate migration is just getting started. Within a couple of decades, perhaps sooner, severe climate displacement of humans is going to make the world's current migration problems look like a friendly picnic in the park by comparison.
 
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oldaunt said:
And if all those people who broke federal law to get over the border put the same amount of energy into making life in their OWN country better, the world would change for the better. And just because you don't LIKE a law doesn't make it any less a law.
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Well said !
The Mexican government has a strange way of enforcing laws. Take the traffic laws for example. It is quite common for Mexican drivers to blow right through a red light. Local cops don't seem to enforce traffic laws very often, and when they do so, it usually is just a way of extorting money from a driver. Extremely poor government is the main cause of why Mexicans are flooding into America.
 

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