Putting up with those who are not as honest as they should be, (some research)

grahamg

grahamg

Old codger
Location
South of Manchester, UK
A good friend and I had a discussion yesterday that touched on the subject of honesty and the need for it generally in both the private and public sphere's of life, (she is very honest btw but perhaps rates its importance differently than I do, or at least for arguments sake!):

Here is some research on the topic:
https://hbr.org/1990/09/why-be-honest-if-honesty-doesnt-pay

More here:
https://www.rewriting-the-rules.com...nd-honesty-can-we-have-one-without-the-other/

Quote:
"..........., how, often, when we try to communicate honestly we sacrifice kindness, and when we try to be kind to others we sacrifice honesty. I concluded that it was important to find a balance between the two: holding that tension whenever we communicate with others, or indeed ourselves.

Lately, however, it seems to me that kindness and honesty are more inextricably linked than I previously thought. It struck me that kindness without honesty is not really kindness, and that honesty without kindness is not really honesty. So whether we are somebody who – in life – prides ourselves on our openness and straightforwardness, or on our compassion and generosity, we have to engage seriously with the other aspect in order to be truly as we are aiming to be (honest, or kind, respectively)."

And lastly on the purely personal, (not so sure on their advice though):
https://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-5775/5-Reasons-to-Be-Honest-in-Love.html

Is honesty always the best policy?​

Yes, honesty is always necessary in a relationship 100% of the time.

“Each lie that your partner catches you in dilutes your bond, turning you from teammates to opponents in an invisible conflict where your word is never taken seriously,” ******* explains. “That being said, no need to be brutal when delivering your opinion or answering questions honestly that you know might hurt.”
For example, if your partner just cooked you the worst meal you’ve ever had in your life and asks you what you think of the food, you should be honest—don’t say you love it when you don’t. But ****** recommends avoiding unnecessarily hurtful statements (i.e. “you're a terrible cook”) and springing for kinder ways to convey the same sentiment: “Hmm. I so appreciate that you made dinner tonight. Does it taste a little bitter to you though?” Or, “It’s a little bitter tasting to me, so I think there’s some room for improvement. But you clearly put a lot of effort into this, and I so appreciate it when you make dinner.”
 

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Just to see whether the thread has a chance of generating any interest I wish to impart something my dear father once said to my future wife, (now former wife), who was denying responsibility for keeping his son out late at night, thus making him tired for next days milking!

"You're a bigger liar than a cattle dealer", my father said to much amusement all round, (cattle dealers having the reputation of snake oil salesmen in my fathers eyes!)! :)
 

Some people you talk to just because you don't want to come off as unfriendly or insulting, and then when it's over, you tell them to "take care" when that's not really what you mean. You don't care if they "take care." What you really want is for them to take off... Okay, take off now. Turn around and start walking. This conversation is over... finito. Go away. But, since we're expected to be polite, we stay there and chat, wasting our precious lives.

That happened to me this morning. 🤣
 
grahamg said:
A good friend and I had a discussion yesterday that touched on the subject of honesty and the need for it generally in both the private and public sphere's of life, (she is very honest btw but perhaps rates its importance differently than I do, or at least for arguments sake!):

Here is some research on the topic:
https://hbr.org/1990/09/why-be-honest-if-honesty-doesnt-pay

More here:
https://www.rewriting-the-rules.com...nd-honesty-can-we-have-one-without-the-other/

Quote:
"..........., how, often, when we try to communicate honestly we sacrifice kindness, and when we try to be kind to others we sacrifice honesty. I concluded that it was important to find a balance between the two: holding that tension whenever we communicate with others, or indeed ourselves.

Lately, however, it seems to me that kindness and honesty are more inextricably linked than I previously thought. It struck me that kindness without honesty is not really kindness, and that honesty without kindness is not really honesty. So whether we are somebody who – in life – prides ourselves on our openness and straightforwardness, or on our compassion and generosity, we have to engage seriously with the other aspect in order to be truly as we are aiming to be (honest, or kind, respectively)."

And lastly on the purely personal, (not so sure on their advice though):
https://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-5775/5-Reasons-to-Be-Honest-in-Love.html

Is honesty always the best policy?​

Yes, honesty is always necessary in a relationship 100% of the time.

“Each lie that your partner catches you in dilutes your bond, turning you from teammates to opponents in an invisible conflict where your word is never taken seriously,” ******* explains. “That being said, no need to be brutal when delivering your opinion or answering questions honestly that you know might hurt.”
For example, if your partner just cooked you the worst meal you’ve ever had in your life and asks you what you think of the food, you should be honest—don’t say you love it when you don’t. But ****** recommends avoiding unnecessarily hurtful statements (i.e. “you're a terrible cook”) and springing for kinder ways to convey the same sentiment: “Hmm. I so appreciate that you made dinner tonight. Does it taste a little bitter to you though?” Or, “It’s a little bitter tasting to me, so I think there’s some room for improvement. But you clearly put a lot of effort into this, and I so appreciate it when you make dinner.”
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good points. My life is mostly spent in making mistakes. Often, huge ones. When I try to be honest, I tend to offend people. When I try to be diplomatic in order to be kind, I tend to mess that up also.

I really wish I had a single clue...and I know I don't.
 
SeniorBen said:
Some people you talk to just because you don't want to come off as unfriendly or insulting, and then when it's over, you tell them to "take care" when that's not really what you mean. You don't care if they "take care." What you really want is for them to take off... Okay, take off now. Turn around and start walking. This conversation is over... finito. Go away. But, since we're expected to be polite, we stay there and chat, wasting our precious lives.

That happened to me this morning. 🤣
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A bit severe there Ben, but I think I know what you mean, (when I say "Take care" to someone I'm probably really thinking something isn't quite right, though I can't put my finger on it!)!
 
Honesty is almost always the best policy. Some examples of when it's not:
Around 20 years ago, I'm going for a walk on my lunch break. As I pass an antique store, I see a huge Great Dane on a sofa. Since I have to pet every dog I see, I walk in & the owner immediately tries to sell me something.
I couldn't be honest & say, "I'm not interested in your old, rusty, high-priced crap; I just want to pet your dog," so I say, "Uh, I'm just browsing; I'll....uh....let you know in a few minutes." She got the hint when I sat on the sofa & her dog snuggled up to me & put his huge head in my lap.
I should have made an offer on her dog.

When I was married, my wife tried to be a good cook. I didn't care that she wasn't. Once, she got a cook book & tried to make Swordfish. I could tell she was really worried about whether I would like it. She kept asking me "How is it?" I kept saying, "It's really good."
After the third time she asked, I said, "Honey, this could heal the sick." It could really make someone sick. :ROFLMAO:
 
win231 said:
Honesty is almost always the best policy.( Break)
When I was married, my wife tried to be a good cook. I didn't care that she wasn't. Once, she got a cook book & tried to make Swordfish. I could tell she was really worried about whether I would like it. She kept asking me "How is it?" I kept saying, "It's really good."
After the third time she asked, I said, "Honey, this could heal the sick." It could really make someone sick. :ROFLMAO:
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Being a good cook is a plus obviously, (my mum was noted for being an artist at real old fashioned farmhouse cooking, and my now ex was good enough, and appreciated for the fact by our daughter at a youngish age).
Not sussing this out before marriage was of course your reponsibilty, but there are no doubt some absolutely gorgeous women out there who cannot boil an egg I believe, so as long as there were compensations, I'd say you did do too bad, and just look how hard she tried to please you! :)
 
Honestly, from your posts I have read that you are a nice man that married the wrong woman. She not only broke your heart, she tore it from your chest. Then decided to do the one thing that would ruin you forever, take your daughter from you. You have been treated badly and have not been able to recover. She took your soul. The only thing I wish for you is that you find a way to let go of the pain. You can't change what has happened but you can find some peace and happiness. Don't let her rule your heart anymore.
 
People who are good-hearted, tend to see other people as also being good-hearted.

It is not always the case.

There are some real sociopaths out there, who can't properly form compassionate feelings for anyone.
 
My favorite comes from the diary of Lazarus Long: Money is truthful, if a person speaks to you of their honor, make them pay cash.
 
I once worked with a woman whose aunt came to work at our building. After sometime this woman said to me "I can't believe you get along with B.. There are people in the family who can't get along with her, I was actually worried about it." I found B. to be nice and also very blunt and honest. I know if there had ever been an issue, I would have heard it from her directly. Not behind my back.

I used to be honest to a fault. I had to learn to lie, if it was to protect myself. I'm not sure why. Perhaps because I would see my mother often present herself phony and then the real her immerged behind closed doors. Though there were times she made a fool of herself and made scenes in public.

Once some neighbors from down the street stopped by rather late. My mother was sickly sweet to them at the door. I don't remember why they stopped. I was a kid. But when the door closed and she turned around the smile and persona were gone and she looked at me like daggers shot through me. She had been in a foul mood that day but put it on good and phony for those people. Sickening.
 
This conversation reminds me of a Lucy show I saw once. She was challenged by her husband to not say a lie and be honest for a certain period of time (I think a day), and it was the funniest thing watching her telling the truth. She offended so many people. I remember laughing so hard because I saw the irony in it.

I think honesty is a complicated issue. Sometimes we don't want to hurt someone's feelings, so we give a "white lie."
Honesty was an important part of my marriage, and so was communication. There were no secrets in my marriage. When the two go hand-in-hand, it really is a remarkable and good relationship. I used to say "Truth lasts forever, but lies get exposed." We can't remember lies. Eventually they'll come back to haunt us.
 
Blessed said:
Honestly, from your posts I have read that you are a nice man that married the wrong woman. She not only broke your heart, she tore it from your chest. Then decided to do the one thing that would ruin you forever, take your daughter from you. You have been treated badly and have not been able to recover. She took your soul. The only thing I wish for you is that you find a way to let go of the pain. You can't change what has happened but you can find some peace and happiness. Don't let her rule your heart anymore.
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Believe me, if I have a soul, (and I believe I might), my future wife/wife/ex wife didnt take it, and certainly having such a daughter to boast about remains a very positive aspect of my life.
My future wife I say because she knew shortly after I met her when aged twenty one, (my first girlfriend), I'd struggled a bit with mental health issues. I discussed with her having visited my doctor to tell him I doubted myself, (...., and by the way, he tried to tell me all was fine, but he understood how deeply concerns about yourself could go in young men/people).

She was upset and cried when I told her of those feelings but didn't dump me as you might have thought a girl could have done, when hearing of such issues.

As said elsewhere on this forum she told me within six months of my meeting her she wished to have my child!

I learned later giving big "come ons" in this family was a common enough characteristic, when at an engagement party for one of her cousins I learned from the boyfriend how he was "encouraged", (as he said in his speech, this was by her telling him she wondered how they would feel about life together, having been married and in fifty years time! :) ).
 
bowmore said:
My favorite comes from the diary of Lazarus Long: Money is truthful, if a person speaks to you of their honor, make them pay cash.
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You've put me on to this guy for the first time, (thank you):
https://www.angelfire.com/or/sociologyshop/lazlong.html

Here is a selection of his quotes:
"Always store beer in a dark place."

By the data to date, there is only one animal in the Galaxy dangerous to man--man himself. So he must supply his own indispensable competition. He has no enemy to help him.

Men are more sentimental than women. It blurs their thinking.

Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you can’t win.

Always listen to experts. They’ll tell you what can’t be done and why. Then do it!

There is no conclusive evidence of life after death. But there is no evidence of any sort against it. Soon enough you will know. So why fret about it?

Delusions are often functional. A mother’s opinions about her children’s beauty, intelligence, goodness, et cetera ad nauseam, keep her from drowning them at birth.

Nursing does not diminish the beauty of a woman’s breasts; it enhances their charm by making them look lived in and happy.

A generation which ignores history has no past—and no future.

What a wonderful world it is that has girls in!"

All men are created unequal.

There is only one way to console a widow. But remember the risk.

Never appeal to a man’s “better nature.” He may not have one. Invoking his “self—interest” gives you more leverage.

The more you love, the more you can love--and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had Time Enough, he could Love all of the majority who are decent and just."
 
Some more sayings from this guy Lazarus Long, (how did he get that name one wonders?), this time related mainly to honesty or lack of it, and trusting others:

Quote:
"Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty until proved innocent."

"If it can’t be expressed in figures, it is not science; it is opinion."

"A fake fortune teller can be tolerated. But an authentic soothsayer should be shot on sight. Cassandra did not get half the kicking around she deserved."

"All men are created unequal."

"Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark."

"An elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."

"The truth of a proposition has nothing to do with it’s credibility. And vice versa."

"The phrase “we (I) (you) simply must--”designates something that need not be done. “That goes without saying” is a red warning. “Of course” means you had best check it yourself. These small--change cliches and others like them, when read correctly, are reliable channel markers."
 

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