grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
The lady kept trying didn't she and is now doing okay, so high marks in my view!
Who cherishes the men in this world in the age of equality, (married folks excepted)?
- Thread starter grahamg
- Start date
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
You make too many assumptions about me, because whether you or anyone else likes it or not I don't regret my marriage, (even though looking back it was bound to fail or be unhappy), I couldn't have had a better child, and my lacking being cherished comment isn't confined to being unfairly excluded from my child's life as I see it, (and no ones going to tell me when to stop going on about that as you know from another thread), and finally, for this ever so long sentence, my comment in the OP and thread title about men not being cherished is simply my view of what I see going on around me concerning the guys (as in men) around me!
I have no words except how utterly ridiculous this is. Men sufficiently CHERISHED? So totally SILLY. Graham, you've outdone yourself! No more words on this hilarious premise.Other than that we're all good, and I can't remember whether we agreed as to whether men are sufficiently cherished today or not!
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
Just your view though, we don't have to agree do we!(?)I have no words except how utterly ridiculous this is. Men sufficiently CHERISHED? So totally SILLY. Graham, you've outdone yourself! No more words on this hilarious premise.
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
Just thought I'd bump the slightly shortened OP up the thread, (please note I knew what was coming from those who believe they know what everyone should think, and how easy it is to touch "red button" issues nowadays, just suggesting men need a little more love!).It occurs to me that a great many men in this world probably aren't being cherished by anyone in the world today, .....,(Break)
Just for my critics I'll throw in how many men get excluded from their children's lives, so little opportunity for your finer qualities to get recognised and appreciated there!
I don't think I'm pretending "men are the victims" (or at least not unfairly), and yes it is very true many men probably are treated just as they deserve by their former partners, maybe even their kids, (though its a moot point for me!), and "the system" has to some extent, be designed to cope with errant dads who'll try to make a mockery if everything, or haven't truly grown up perhaps(?)!
Still my view though that breaking down barriers and old taboos, (like making divorce, and unfaithfulness so acceptable nowadays), that men probably aren't being cherished as much as in former times, when roles were more clearly defined etc.
WheatenLover
Senior Member
- Location
- Georgia
You lost me; I didn't lose you. Tell me all about this wonderful equality. No, don't. It's depressing to think about how many years it has been since I sat in the audience while the legislature in Georgia debated it. I was so disgusted that the next day I took off with my friends for 3 days of kite flying at Stone Mountain, climbed the east end of the mountain (the one that had no climbing -- danger!) signs everywhere. Then my friends and I returned to school and got suspended for another 3 days. Ah... life as a teenager. Georgia did not, of course, pass the ERA. Or Medicaid expansion. Or .... Yet, I love the state. Go figure.Lost again?
Ah well, you'll catch up eventually, don't worry about it hey!
oldaunt
professional hermit
I will just say if a father is not involved in the lives of his children, it is never entirely the woman's fault. It takes at least TWO to have a disagreement about ANYTHING.
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
If I only lost you, then maybe I could argue you chose to lose yourself couldn't I, (and for good measure the references in your post above have me scratching my head, though I thank you for them!).
Hopefully some kind person will translate them for me, as I'm pretty sure I'm as ignorant as can be about Georgia when you were a boy, so can't "figure it" for myself.
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
Not about ANYTHING, (if you don't mind my correcting you), and who is arguing my ex wife wasn't the best, or most competent parent, to use one example of something not fitting your narrative here, (not me ever, I remember I told her this was the case and she was the best parent to have custody of our child on the telephone a few months after our split up).
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
Apologies, I meant "hot button" issues of course!
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
I agree with all those admiring your excellent post, and apologies for not even attempting to respond earlier!I'm not sure what āa great many men in this world probably aren't being cherished by anyone in the world today, with divorce rates so highā means, (Break)
If you want to be "cherished", you have to give as good as you get. If you want love, tenderness, affection, and respect, you must give it in return. It's not a one-sided deal. It can only be found if it's mutual.
If the next generation is being taught that āself-interest is what matters or should matterā, it's wrong. While there's nothing wrong with looking out for yourself, you must step outside yourself and learn to care for others. If you're only self-interested, you're going to end up a very lonely person. Gee whiz, I'm so great, why can't I find someone? The first step is to stop being a selfish idiot. Relationships aren't all about your needs.
As far as having the "upper hand," it's not an effing competition to see who can get on top. That's horse pucky. It's a partnership where no one is jockeying for position. You're on the same side. You support each other. It's you and me against the world, baby! That's how I see it.
I thought I was finished with this comment until I read the rest of what you posted. Oh, boy. Controversial? You said it.
"A woman is naturally submissive to a man who she trusts to lead ... even if she's an alpha female."
"A truly submissive woman is to be treasured, cherished and protected for it is only she who can give the man the gift of dominance."
Of course, I followed my husband's lead, but he was also brave enough and smart enough to follow mine.
If this is your idea of what traditional gender roles should be and what cherishing your husband means, you want to go back to the dark ages. If a man has the need for a woman to be naturally and truly submissive, there's a problem. Alpha, beta, delta, theta, schmeta. My husband ātreasured, cherished and protectedā me, but I was not submissive, and he did not dominate me. He was more than worthy of my admiration, love, tenderness, and respect. I still love and cherish my dearly departed husband, and I always will. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't long for him.
Good luck with whatever it is you're after here.
Bella
The one small point I will pick up on is where you refer to being cherished or not, and what it takes to achieve this state of affairs(?).
Can I suggest to you that it would be worth some women, "pushing the boat out a little" and cherishing a good man, whether or no he's been up to cherishing you just yet?
If I mention my ex I get "a good metaphorical kicking" on this forum nowadays, (maybe for good reason as I've had so much to say for years, and I've avowed not to stop nonetheless!), but I'm reminded of a comment my then wife used to make about the overriding need to love oneself!
She used to say, "If you don't love yourself then no one else can love you", (or words to that effect!). And, "You can't love someone else if if you don't love yourself first", (this being the most significant comment referring to me of course).
Now if what she said is wholly true then every depressed person in this world must be, or end up in a situation "where nobody, but nobody" is able or willing to even try to show them any love at all, (surely this is the only logical conclusion to draw from her statement, and its a statement you'll probably have heard many others make).
I'd say it is obviously much much easier to love someone who is on good form, and they're much more able to show love and affection back, but when deeply depressed (and worse ill etc.), at the breakdown of my marriage, there is no doubt whatever in my mind I definitely still loved my then wife, regardless of the fact she was leaving me for another.
Do you get where I'm coming from now on this "cherished" business and all the rest?
Bella
į į į į į į į į
I debated coming back to this thread. I'll give it another shot but let's clarify one thing. This thread isn't about āa great many men in this world probably aren't being cherished by anyone in the world todayā, it's about you.
You can suggest it, but I'm not going to go along with you on singling out āsome women āpushing the boat out a littleā and cherishing a good man, whether or no he's been up to cherishing you just yet?ā It's not exclusively a woman's thing, the exact same thing can be said about some men cherishing good women. You just admitted that you weren't up to cherishing her ājust yetā. Why would you expect her to cherish you if you didn't cherish her? As I said before, you need to give as good as you get. It has to be mutual. Double standards are unacceptable.
āIf you don't love yourself then no one else can love youā doesn't mean that others are incapable of loving you. That's just some kind of cruel logic, and it's not true. āYou can't love someone else if if you don't love yourself first.ā Just because you donāt know what itās like to love yourself doesnāt mean you're incapable of loving other people. You're more than capable of loving other people. You loved your wife even though she was leaving you. Whether someone is depressed or has some emotional or mental illness, doesn't make them any less deserving of love.
I haven't read anything about your former wife except what you've written in this thread. It seems to me that she failed to ācherishā you because she wasn't supportive of you. She made you feel bad about yourself when you were ill and depressed. Instead of being willing to lift you up, she belittled you and put you down. Whatever her justification was for her words or actions, she was incapable of doing these things.
No doubt, having someone in your corner who cares about you and values you can go a long way to motivating you to work harder at loving yourself. I think I see where you're coming from, graham, in that you're upset, hurt, and resentful of the fact that your wife wasn't willing to do this for you. It hurts when you love someone more than they love you.
"If mention my ex I get āa good metaphorical kickingā on this forum nowadays, (maybe for good reason as I've had so much to say for years, and I've avowed not to stop nonetheless).ā Clearly, graham, you really like posting about her and pushing that āhot buttonā to provoke a reaction. You keep looking for validation, but you're not getting the approval you seek, and it isn't helping you. It's unhealthy. You're just paving the way for more anxiety and depression in your life. Please, give yourself a break. Instead, shift your focus and try working on healing yourself by realizing that you're perfectly lovable in spite of the things she said and did to you. By not taking issue with these things, youāre reinforcing your own lack of self-worth. Youāre telling yourself you are not entitled to the best of anything. Empower yourself and start making positive changes in your life.
I'm probably just blowin' in the wind here, and what I've said will really have no impact on you. You'll just keep pushing that "hot button" until you burn yourself out. I hope not. Either way, I've said all I'm going to say about this and I wish you well. Have a good day and carry on.
Bella
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
I agree you've wasted your time in this post I'm afraid, (never mind hey, my compliments concerning your previous post still stand if you're willing to accept them!?).I debated coming back to this thread. I'll give it another shot but let's clarify one thing. This thread isn't about āa great many men in this world probably aren't being cherished by anyone in the world todayā, it's about you.
Break
I'm probably just blowin' in the wind here, and what I've said will really have no impact on you. You'll just keep pushing that "hot button" until you burn yourself out. I hope not. Either way, I've said all I'm going to say about this and I wish you well. Have a good day and carry on.
Bella
Far too many wrong assumptions in this post above, things you cant possibly know and shouldn't expect to, and as far as "this is all about you", well if you dont believe I posted the OP in good faith then so be it, I know I did, and others dont seem to have jumped to the conclusions you have, so that's validation enough for me, (if I needed any).
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
You should be envied, though as you say it hasn't always been easy, but you must have had the qualities to see it all through when those situations arose, (I suppose many of us don't have the same strengths).
dseag2
Dallas, TX
- Location
- Dallas, TX
@Lavinia I completely agree with your comments, and especially re: admiring the stamina of women. I had a former female boss who rose to become president of my former company. We were always close and I always admired her intelligence and perseverance.
With that said, it is too bad you have such a dim view of gay men because we revere women perhaps more than even women themselves. And women find us non-threatening, which is another big plus. I know I won't change your mind but I thought I'd put it out there.
Now why did you say that? My post makes no reference to gay men! Actually, like many women, I enjoy the company of gay men simply because we can relax , knowing we are seen as the people we are; rather than sex objects.
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
I didn't read into the post you've responded to what you've stated to be the case, (perhaps I've missed something said in earlier posts).
Being "generally disappointed in men", echoes something said by a group of very sensible ladies I've met through another forum, who say I believe quite honestly, "Most men are not very bright",(and perhaps we're not in so many ways!).
As I've been subjected to some amateur analysis on this thread, by those feeling qualified to do so, I wanted to throw in a supporting comment to the " men are generally thick" viewpoint!
My Godmother was a very very intelligent woman, someone who could watch "Mastermind", a long running show in the UK looking for the best brain in the country so far as quizzing goes, and could answer well over half of the general knowledge questions, (in contrast I felt proud to know one!).
Well this dear lady once spoke to my mother trying to assuage her worries about this dullard of a son she'd bred, (namely moi), and told her that if a child didn't appear as quick on the uptake as your other children, then you had to look for other qualities in them!
This could be their honesty generally, their goodnaturedness, lack of peevishness, and a desire to do good, whatever it might be, (and I don't think the message was ignored by my mum, who was certainly a great supporter of me, even though she still kept worrying about me, all her life I guess!).
There we are I've now made the thread " all about me" but I'll perhaps return to address the balance!
OneEyedDiva
SF VIP
- Location
- New Jersey
I cherish the good men. I don't cherish a man just because he's of the male species.
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
You've weighed "us men" up brilliantly there, but as the French say, "Vivre La Difference"!
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
No, that's fair enough obviously, though I'm trying to focus upon what might be happening "generally" (?).
I think a lot depends on how we have been treated by men.I didn't read into the post you've responded to what you've stated to be the case, (perhaps I've missed something said in earlier posts).
Being "generally disappointed in men", echoes something said by a group of very sensible ladies I've met through another forum, who say I believe quite honestly, "Most men are not very bright",(and perhaps we're not in so many ways!).
As I've been subjected to some amateur analysis on this thread, by those feeling qualified to do so, I wanted to throw in a supporting comment to the " men are generally thick" viewpoint!
My Godmother was a very very intelligent woman, someone who could watch "Mastermind", a long running show in the UK looking for the best brain in the country so far as quizzing goes, and could answer well over half of the general knowledge questions, (in contrast I felt proud to know one!).
Well this dear lady once spoke to my mother trying to assuage her worries about this dullard of a son she'd bred, (namely moi), and told her that if a child didn't appear as quick on the uptake as your other children, then you had to look for other qualities in them!
This could be their honesty generally, their goodnaturedness, lack of peevishness, and a desire to do good, whatever it might be, (and I don't think the message was ignored by my mum, who was certainly a great supporter of me, even though she still kept worrying about me, all her life I guess!).
There we are I've now made the thread " all about me" but I'll perhaps return to address the balance!
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
I'm sure that's true, (and returning to my own life, and what my mother used to say about her much loved granddaughter, "She hoped she would be lucky in her choice of husband", and she seems to have been, recently giving birth to their third child too!).
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
Some more research on thread topic here:
https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/pub...gotten-foundation-mental-health-and-wellbeing
Quote:
"Evidence suggests that men and women treat friendships differently, with women being more likely to have broader, more intimate relationships than men. As a result, men are less likely to discuss personal matters with their friends than women, so may be less socially and emotionally supported during times of stress and crisis"
Break
An increasing number of older people living in the UK report feeling isolated and lonely within their everyday lives. This is particularly relevant for those living with long-term conditions that can make it difficult to leave the house.
During this time of life, we can often forget the importance of intimate relationships and friendships, and the changing role from being a parent to being a carer or grandparent. These bring about significant changes that impact on and alter our relationships.
People aged 75 and over are the least likely to have at least one close friend, with 11% having no close friends at all, compared to only 2% of those aged 18 to 24
Having few close relationships has been linked to higher rates of depression and stress in older adults."
Break
"Being part of a community helps us feel connected, supported and gives us a sense of belonging. Involvement in local activities, such as volunteering or playing sports as part of a team, has been shown to improve mental health and wellbeing.
However, communities are changing from the traditional neighbourhoods where everyone knows each other. This is because of the impact of longer working hours, differing family structures, more movement and fluctuation in where we live, and the emergence of, and modern societyās reliance on, online technologies and social media.
Many of us use social media or online networking sites, often as a way of feeling connected to our friends and to increase feelings of belonging. Despite the increased use of online communication, almost half of internet users in the UK reported that the internet had not increased their contact with friends or family who had moved away."
Break
"The importance of community appears to be declining in modern society, with only 42.5% of people aged 16 to 25 rating associations with others in their community as important, compared to 73.1% of over 75s"
https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/pub...gotten-foundation-mental-health-and-wellbeing
Quote:
"Evidence suggests that men and women treat friendships differently, with women being more likely to have broader, more intimate relationships than men. As a result, men are less likely to discuss personal matters with their friends than women, so may be less socially and emotionally supported during times of stress and crisis"
Break
Later life
"Many people continue to have an active role within society well into their later years, with retirement and changing care responsibilities providing more time and opportunity to take on new hobbies and interests. While this is true for many people in later life, loneliness and isolation has been found to be a significant issue for older people aged over 65.An increasing number of older people living in the UK report feeling isolated and lonely within their everyday lives. This is particularly relevant for those living with long-term conditions that can make it difficult to leave the house.
During this time of life, we can often forget the importance of intimate relationships and friendships, and the changing role from being a parent to being a carer or grandparent. These bring about significant changes that impact on and alter our relationships.
People aged 75 and over are the least likely to have at least one close friend, with 11% having no close friends at all, compared to only 2% of those aged 18 to 24
Having few close relationships has been linked to higher rates of depression and stress in older adults."
Break
"Being part of a community helps us feel connected, supported and gives us a sense of belonging. Involvement in local activities, such as volunteering or playing sports as part of a team, has been shown to improve mental health and wellbeing.
However, communities are changing from the traditional neighbourhoods where everyone knows each other. This is because of the impact of longer working hours, differing family structures, more movement and fluctuation in where we live, and the emergence of, and modern societyās reliance on, online technologies and social media.
Many of us use social media or online networking sites, often as a way of feeling connected to our friends and to increase feelings of belonging. Despite the increased use of online communication, almost half of internet users in the UK reported that the internet had not increased their contact with friends or family who had moved away."
Break
"The importance of community appears to be declining in modern society, with only 42.5% of people aged 16 to 25 rating associations with others in their community as important, compared to 73.1% of over 75s"
Victor
Senior Member
- Location
- midwest USA
To answer the OP. No one cherishes men in the West. in general A woman or perhaps man may cherish her spouse or SO or family member Cherish is too strong. Love or hold dear. But there are conditions for this passion for everyone. You might cherish him as long as you get your way all the time
Leaders in the women's movement ended and hated the notion of women cherishing men! Feminists argue that men are not needed at all. Like a dessert. Disdained not cherish Well at least most of us should get respect
Leaders in the women's movement ended and hated the notion of women cherishing men! Feminists argue that men are not needed at all. Like a dessert. Disdained not cherish Well at least most of us should get respect