grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
The lady kept trying didn't she and is now doing okay, so high marks in my view!very very sorry for your bad experiences. take care now.
The lady kept trying didn't she and is now doing okay, so high marks in my view!very very sorry for your bad experiences. take care now.
You make too many assumptions about me, because whether you or anyone else likes it or not I don't regret my marriage, (even though looking back it was bound to fail or be unhappy), I couldn't have had a better child, and my lacking being cherished comment isn't confined to being unfairly excluded from my child's life as I see it, (and no ones going to tell me when to stop going on about that as you know from another thread), and finally, for this ever so long sentence, my comment in the OP and thread title about men not being cherished is simply my view of what I see going on around me concerning the guys (as in men) around me!I've been married only once. At over 40 years together and counting, we remain in love and a very good match. That said, of course I entered this marriage knowing that if it didn't work out we'd divorce. (Break)
Graham, your bitterness toward women, your failed marriage, your ex-wife and your non-relationship with your daughter color a high percentage of the threads you start. I'm sorry that you're in so much pain and that you have so much difficulty moving forward.
I have no words except how utterly ridiculous this is. Men sufficiently CHERISHED? So totally SILLY. Graham, you've outdone yourself! No more words on this hilarious premise.Other than that we're all good, and I can't remember whether we agreed as to whether men are sufficiently cherished today or not!
Lost again?You lost me at the title - what age of "equality"? That is a serious question.
Just your view though, we don't have to agree do we!(?)I have no words except how utterly ridiculous this is. Men sufficiently CHERISHED? So totally SILLY. Graham, you've outdone yourself! No more words on this hilarious premise.
Just thought I'd bump the slightly shortened OP up the thread, (please note I knew what was coming from those who believe they know what everyone should think, and how easy it is to touch "red button" issues nowadays, just suggesting men need a little more love!).It occurs to me that a great many men in this world probably aren't being cherished by anyone in the world today, .....,(Break)
Just for my critics I'll throw in how many men get excluded from their children's lives, so little opportunity for your finer qualities to get recognised and appreciated there!
I don't think I'm pretending "men are the victims" (or at least not unfairly), and yes it is very true many men probably are treated just as they deserve by their former partners, maybe even their kids, (though its a moot point for me!), and "the system" has to some extent, be designed to cope with errant dads who'll try to make a mockery if everything, or haven't truly grown up perhaps(?)!
Still my view though that breaking down barriers and old taboos, (like making divorce, and unfaithfulness so acceptable nowadays), that men probably aren't being cherished as much as in former times, when roles were more clearly defined etc.
You lost me; I didn't lose you. Tell me all about this wonderful equality. No, don't. It's depressing to think about how many years it has been since I sat in the audience while the legislature in Georgia debated it. I was so disgusted that the next day I took off with my friends for 3 days of kite flying at Stone Mountain, climbed the east end of the mountain (the one that had no climbing -- danger!) signs everywhere. Then my friends and I returned to school and got suspended for another 3 days. Ah... life as a teenager. Georgia did not, of course, pass the ERA. Or Medicaid expansion. Or .... Yet, I love the state. Go figure.Lost again?
Ah well, you'll catch up eventually, don't worry about it hey!
If I only lost you, then maybe I could argue you chose to lose yourself couldn't I, (and for good measure the references in your post above have me scratching my head, though I thank you for them!).You lost me; I didn't lose you. Tell me all about this wonderful equality. No, don't. It's depressing to think about how many years it has been since I sat in the audience while the legislature in Georgia debated it. I was so disgusted that the next day I took off with my friends for 3 days of kite flying at Stone Mountain, climbed the east end of the mountain (the one that had no climbing -- danger!) signs everywhere. Then my friends and I returned to school and got suspended for another 3 days. Ah... life as a teenager. Georgia did not, of course, pass the ERA. Or Medicaid expansion. Or .... Yet, I love the state. Go figure.
Not about ANYTHING, (if you don't mind my correcting you), and who is arguing my ex wife wasn't the best, or most competent parent, to use one example of something not fitting your narrative here, (not me ever, I remember I told her this was the case and she was the best parent to have custody of our child on the telephone a few months after our split up).I will just say if a father is not involved in the lives of his children, it is never entirely the woman's fault. It takes at least TWO to have a disagreement about ANYTHING.
Apologies, I meant "hot button" issues of course!Just thought I'd bump the slightly shortened OP up the thread, (please note I knew what was coming from those who believe they know what everyone should think, and how easy it is to touch "red button" issues nowadays, just suggesting men need a little more love!).
I agree with all those admiring your excellent post, and apologies for not even attempting to respond earlier!I'm not sure what āa great many men in this world probably aren't being cherished by anyone in the world today, with divorce rates so highā means, (Break)
If you want to be "cherished", you have to give as good as you get. If you want love, tenderness, affection, and respect, you must give it in return. It's not a one-sided deal. It can only be found if it's mutual.
If the next generation is being taught that āself-interest is what matters or should matterā, it's wrong. While there's nothing wrong with looking out for yourself, you must step outside yourself and learn to care for others. If you're only self-interested, you're going to end up a very lonely person. Gee whiz, I'm so great, why can't I find someone? The first step is to stop being a selfish idiot. Relationships aren't all about your needs.
As far as having the "upper hand," it's not an effing competition to see who can get on top. That's horse pucky. It's a partnership where no one is jockeying for position. You're on the same side. You support each other. It's you and me against the world, baby! That's how I see it.
I thought I was finished with this comment until I read the rest of what you posted. Oh, boy. Controversial? You said it.
"A woman is naturally submissive to a man who she trusts to lead ... even if she's an alpha female."
"A truly submissive woman is to be treasured, cherished and protected for it is only she who can give the man the gift of dominance."
Of course, I followed my husband's lead, but he was also brave enough and smart enough to follow mine.
If this is your idea of what traditional gender roles should be and what cherishing your husband means, you want to go back to the dark ages. If a man has the need for a woman to be naturally and truly submissive, there's a problem. Alpha, beta, delta, theta, schmeta. My husband ātreasured, cherished and protectedā me, but I was not submissive, and he did not dominate me. He was more than worthy of my admiration, love, tenderness, and respect. I still love and cherish my dearly departed husband, and I always will. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't long for him.
Good luck with whatever it is you're after here.
Bella
I debated coming back to this thread. I'll give it another shot but let's clarify one thing. This thread isn't about āa great many men in this world probably aren't being cherished by anyone in the world todayā, it's about you.I agree with all those admiring your excellent post, and apologies for not even attempting to respond earlier!
The one small point I will pick up on is where you refer to being cherished or not, and what it takes to achieve this state of affairs(?).
Can I suggest to you that it would be worth some women, "pushing the boat out a little" and cherishing a good man, whether or no he's been up to cherishing you just yet?
If I mention my ex I get "a good metaphorical kicking" on this forum nowadays, (maybe for good reason as I've had so much to say for years, and I've avowed not to stop nonetheless!), but I'm reminded of a comment my then wife used to make about the overriding need to love oneself!
She used to say, "If you don't love yourself then no one else can love you", (or words to that effect!). And, "You can't love someone else if if you don't love yourself first", (this being the most significant comment referring to me of course).
Now if what she said is wholly true then every depressed person in this world must be, or end up in a situation "where nobody, but nobody" is able or willing to even try to show them any love at all, (surely this is the only logical conclusion to draw from her statement, and its a statement you'll probably have heard many others make).
I'd say it is obviously much much easier to love someone who is on good form, and they're much more able to show love and affection back, but when deeply depressed (and worse ill etc.), at the breakdown of my marriage, there is no doubt whatever in my mind I definitely still loved my then wife, regardless of the fact she was leaving me for another.
Do you get where I'm coming from now on this "cherished" business and all the rest?
I agree you've wasted your time in this post I'm afraid, (never mind hey, my compliments concerning your previous post still stand if you're willing to accept them!?).I debated coming back to this thread. I'll give it another shot but let's clarify one thing. This thread isn't about āa great many men in this world probably aren't being cherished by anyone in the world todayā, it's about you.
Break
I'm probably just blowin' in the wind here, and what I've said will really have no impact on you. You'll just keep pushing that "hot button" until you burn yourself out. I hope not. Either way, I've said all I'm going to say about this and I wish you well. Have a good day and carry on.
Bella
You should be envied, though as you say it hasn't always been easy, but you must have had the qualities to see it all through when those situations arose, (I suppose many of us don't have the same strengths).I've been married to my husband for over 50yrs. We have had many ups and downs as most married people. But our love and respect for each other got us through all our problems. My Motto is "True Love Conquers All"
@Lavinia I completely agree with your comments, and especially re: admiring the stamina of women. I had a former female boss who rose to become president of my former company. We were always close and I always admired her intelligence and perseverance.I'm sorry to say that I'm generally disappointed in men. I'm not a lesbian, but I admire the nature of women. They have to endure far more than men, and have much greater responsibilities.
I think the reason why women are treated as inferior is quite simply because men are aware of how powerful women really are, and they want to keep them subjugated.
Now why did you say that? My post makes no reference to gay men! Actually, like many women, I enjoy the company of gay men simply because we can relax , knowing we are seen as the people we are; rather than sex objects.@Lavinia I completely agree with your comments, and especially re: admiring the stamina of women. I had a former female boss who rose to become president of my former company. We were always close and I always admired her intelligence and perseverance.
With that said, it is too bad you have such a dim view of gay men because we revere women perhaps more than even women themselves. And women find us non-threatening, which is another big plus. I know I won't change your mind but I thought I'd put it out there.
I didn't read into the post you've responded to what you've stated to be the case, (perhaps I've missed something said in earlier posts).@Lavinia I completely agree with your comments, and especially re: admiring the stamina of women. I had a former female boss who rose to become president of my former company. We were always close and I always admired her intelligence and perseverance.
With that said, it is too bad you have such a dim view of gay men because we revere women perhaps more than even women themselves. And women find us non-threatening, which is another big plus. I know I won't change your mind but I thought I'd put it out there.
You've weighed "us men" up brilliantly there, but as the French say, "Vivre La Difference"!Now why did you say that? My post makes no reference to gay men! Actually, like many women, I enjoy the company of gay men simply because we can relax , knowing we are seen as the people we are; rather than sex objects.
No, that's fair enough obviously, though I'm trying to focus upon what might be happening "generally" (?).I cherish the good men. I don't cherish a man just because he's of the male species.
I think a lot depends on how we have been treated by men.I didn't read into the post you've responded to what you've stated to be the case, (perhaps I've missed something said in earlier posts).
Being "generally disappointed in men", echoes something said by a group of very sensible ladies I've met through another forum, who say I believe quite honestly, "Most men are not very bright",(and perhaps we're not in so many ways!).
As I've been subjected to some amateur analysis on this thread, by those feeling qualified to do so, I wanted to throw in a supporting comment to the " men are generally thick" viewpoint!
My Godmother was a very very intelligent woman, someone who could watch "Mastermind", a long running show in the UK looking for the best brain in the country so far as quizzing goes, and could answer well over half of the general knowledge questions, (in contrast I felt proud to know one!).
Well this dear lady once spoke to my mother trying to assuage her worries about this dullard of a son she'd bred, (namely moi), and told her that if a child didn't appear as quick on the uptake as your other children, then you had to look for other qualities in them!
This could be their honesty generally, their goodnaturedness, lack of peevishness, and a desire to do good, whatever it might be, (and I don't think the message was ignored by my mum, who was certainly a great supporter of me, even though she still kept worrying about me, all her life I guess!).
There we are I've now made the thread " all about me" but I'll perhaps return to address the balance!
I'm sure that's true, (and returning to my own life, and what my mother used to say about her much loved granddaughter, "She hoped she would be lucky in her choice of husband", and she seems to have been, recently giving birth to their third child too!).I think a lot depends on how we have been treated by men.