Pledge of Allegiance - are you pro or con?

I am dismayed and saddened to read how many posters are not in agreement with the “Pledge of Allegiance.” To think of the hundreds of thousands of Americans that gave their life to keep the flag we have still flying. It is because of that flag that we have the rights that we do, including being able to be critical of its message. We may not be a perfect country, but I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else.

Anyone that thinks there is somewhere better maybe should move there and live the better life.
 
Being Australian I only ever remember reciting God save the Queen. It certainly was not every day, though my school day memories are hazy at best.
I think God save the Queen was eventually dropped for Australia's new national anthem, Advance Australia Fair. That was 1984, after I left school
 
Pepper said:
Me too, but I even love songs like 'God Bless America'---gives me chills even to think about it. 'Course I learned to love this stuff when I was young & innocent--they got me before I was seven!
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Pepper, I remember that a year after 9/11 happened, my community (Bainbridge Island, WA) had a memorial service for those who were lost on that terrible day. We gathered around the flagpole and sang God Bless America, and it was very moving. It had nothing to do with belief in God, or even feelings about America, really, it was just an expression of cohesiveness and horror at the terrorism that had been inflicted on us. I found it very moving.

At the time, I remember reading that God Bless America was the most frequently used song at all the memorial services around the country. More than the Star Spangled Banner, America the Beautiful, or any of the others.

But of course, that's not really the same as pledging allegiance to the flag.
 
I thought the pledge was silly and mostly meaningless in grade school. OK, I realize the piece of cloth is a symbol, but I don't know if what it symbolizes deserves it. I think Canada's flag is better than ours anyway. We have stars, one for each state, each of which hates the other states, and red stripes for the blood that has been shed, <eek> and white stripes for I can't remember what, and the blue background behind the stars, means something else, which I don't care about. But it sounds like someone put a much of colors together, and then years later, some committee was appointed to invent some flag drama about what it's deeper meaning might be.
 
Absolutely pro. Even before the verse "One nation under God" was added, many of our forefathers thought it should have been added. Lincoln used it his Gettysburg Address, "...that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain; that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, and for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Thomas Jefferson also sought to have it added. It took many years later before it actually was added and even if you are Agnostic or an Atheist, you won't be held accountable for repeating the words. If it really bothers you, just skip that part while others say the words "under God." We are an Anglo-Saxon country.
 
Preamble to the Ohio Constitution:

Effective:1851

We, the people of the State of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and promote our common welfare, do establish this Constitution.
 
I remember we said the pledge when we were in grammar school. I don't think we did in high school, can't remember for sure. I didn't get exposed to people saying the pledge again until I started going to the senior center in 2019. I'd stand but would not recite it. I pledge my allegiance to God, not a flag that's supposed symbolize "liberty and justice for all". Clearly in this country, that's just not true. I have no objection to others who wish to say it.
 
oldman said:
I am dismayed and saddened to read how many posters are not in agreement with the “Pledge of Allegiance.” To think of the hundreds of thousands of Americans that gave their life to keep the flag we have still flying. It is because of that flag that we have the rights that we do, including being able to be critical of its message. We may not be a perfect country, but I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else.

Anyone that thinks there is somewhere better maybe should move there and live the better life.
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Oldman, before you get your knickers in a knot over this, please consider:

Objecting to forcing (or strongly encouraging) people to recite a pledge to anything - country, religion, political party, idea, even a sports team
(just kidding about that) - does not mean that the objector hates the country. It's an objection to being required to pledge allegiance to anything.

One of the great things this country stands for is freedom of speech. That means the freedom to agree, support, disagree, argue with, lawfully seek to change, etc. That's what freedom is. So, objecting to being required to stand up and recite allegiance to anything is the definition of freedom. It doesn't mean you want to live anywhere else. And, if you object to Americans having freedom of thought, even about something as minor as whether to recite a pledge, maybe YOU should go live somewhere else.

And by the way, that "go move somewhere else" business is as unamerican as it gets. We are allowed to voice our opinion of required ceremonies, especially those that include religious pledges that we may not agree with, without being banished to another country. (And people in some of those other countries do have a pretty good life, my friend. The "ugly American" swagger doesn't impress anyone, except those who would rather march in lockstep than think.)

I do love this country, and at least until recently, have always been (mostly) proud of it. In a "two steps forward, one step back" way, a lot of the terrible attitudes and laws are being done away with. And, for reasons I have already explained, I willingly recite the Pledge. But I can understand why some people object to it, especially when it is forced on children. Education is one thing; indoctrination is another.

So come one, get off your high horse. That attitude just embarrasses a lot of Americans, and infuriates the rest of the world.
 
Sunny said:
Oldman, before you get your knickers in a knot over this, please consider:

Objecting to forcing (or strongly encouraging) people to recite a pledge to anything - country, religion, political party, idea, even a sports team
(just kidding about that) - does not mean that the objector hates the country. It's an objection to being required to pledge allegiance to anything.

One of the great things this country stands for is freedom of speech. That means the freedom to agree, support, disagree, argue with, lawfully seek to change, etc. That's what freedom is. So, objecting to being required to stand up and recite allegiance to anything is the definition of freedom. It doesn't mean you want to live anywhere else. And, if you object to Americans having freedom of thought, even about something as minor as whether to recite a pledge, maybe YOU should go live somewhere else.

And by the way, that "go move somewhere else" business is as unamerican as it gets. We are allowed to voice our opinion of required ceremonies, especially those that include religious pledges that we may not agree with, without being banished to another country. (And people in some of those other countries do have a pretty good life, my friend. The "ugly American" swagger doesn't impress anyone, except those who would rather march in lockstep than think.)

I do love this country, and at least until recently, have always been (mostly) proud of it. In a "two steps forward, one step back" way, a lot of the terrible attitudes and laws are being done away with. And, for reasons I have already explained, I willingly recite the Pledge. But I can understand why some people object to it, especially when it is forced on children. Education is one thing; indoctrination is another.

So come one, get off your high horse. That attitude just embarrasses a lot of Americans, and infuriates the rest of the world.
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Plain out rude
 
Sunny said:
Oldman, before you get your knickers in a knot over this, please consider:

Objecting to forcing (or strongly encouraging) people to recite a pledge to anything - country, religion, political party, idea, even a sports team
(just kidding about that) - does not mean that the objector hates the country. It's an objection to being required to pledge allegiance to anything.

One of the great things this country stands for is freedom of speech. That means the freedom to agree, support, disagree, argue with, lawfully seek to change, etc. That's what freedom is. So, objecting to being required to stand up and recite allegiance to anything is the definition of freedom. It doesn't mean you want to live anywhere else. And, if you object to Americans having freedom of thought, even about something as minor as whether to recite a pledge, maybe YOU should go live somewhere else.

And by the way, that "go move somewhere else" business is as unamerican as it gets. We are allowed to voice our opinion of required ceremonies, especially those that include religious pledges that we may not agree with, without being banished to another country. (And people in some of those other countries do have a pretty good life, my friend. The "ugly American" swagger doesn't impress anyone, except those who would rather march in lockstep than think.)

I do love this country, and at least until recently, have always been (mostly) proud of it. In a "two steps forward, one step back" way, a lot of the terrible attitudes and laws are being done away with. And, for reasons I have already explained, I willingly recite the Pledge. But I can understand why some people object to it, especially when it is forced on children. Education is one thing; indoctrination is another.

So come one, get off your high horse. That attitude just embarrasses a lot of Americans, and infuriates the rest of the world.
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Sunny said:
Oldman, before you get your knickers in a knot over this, please consider:

Objecting to forcing (or strongly encouraging) people to recite a pledge to anything - country, religion, political party, idea, even a sports team
(just kidding about that) - does not mean that the objector hates the country. It's an objection to being required to pledge allegiance to anything.

One of the great things this country stands for is freedom of speech. That means the freedom to agree, support, disagree, argue with, lawfully seek to change, etc. That's what freedom is. So, objecting to being required to stand up and recite allegiance to anything is the definition of freedom. It doesn't mean you want to live anywhere else. And, if you object to Americans having freedom of thought, even about something as minor as whether to recite a pledge, maybe YOU should go live somewhere else.

And by the way, that "go move somewhere else" business is as unamerican as it gets. We are allowed to voice our opinion of required ceremonies, especially those that include religious pledges that we may not agree with, without being banished to another country. (And people in some of those other countries do have a pretty good life, my friend. The "ugly American" swagger doesn't impress anyone, except those who would rather march in lockstep than think.)

I do love this country, and at least until recently, have always been (mostly) proud of it. In a "two steps forward, one step back" way, a lot of the terrible attitudes and laws are being done away with. And, for reasons I have already explained, I willingly recite the Pledge. But I can understand why some people object to it, especially when it is forced on children. Education is one thing; indoctrination is another.

So come one, get off your high horse. That attitude just embarrasses a lot of Americans, and infuriates the rest of the world.
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Sunny said:
Oldman, before you get your knickers in a knot over this, please consider:

Objecting to forcing (or strongly encouraging) people to recite a pledge to anything - country, religion, political party, idea, even a sports team
(just kidding about that) - does not mean that the objector hates the country. It's an objection to being required to pledge allegiance to anything.

One of the great things this country stands for is freedom of speech. That means the freedom to agree, support, disagree, argue with, lawfully seek to change, etc. That's what freedom is. So, objecting to being required to stand up and recite allegiance to anything is the definition of freedom. It doesn't mean you want to live anywhere else. And, if you object to Americans having freedom of thought, even about something as minor as whether to recite a pledge, maybe YOU should go live somewhere else.

And by the way, that "go move somewhere else" business is as unamerican as it gets. We are allowed to voice our opinion of required ceremonies, especially those that include religious pledges that we may not agree with, without being banished to another country. (And people in some of those other countries do have a pretty good life, my friend. The "ugly American" swagger doesn't impress anyone, except those who would rather march in lockstep than think.)

I do love this country, and at least until recently, have always been (mostly) proud of it. In a "two steps forward, one step back" way, a lot of the terrible attitudes and laws are being done away with. And, for reasons I have already explained, I willingly recite the Pledge. But I can understand why some people object to it, especially when it is forced on children. Education is one thing; indoctrination is another.

So come one, get off your high horse. That attitude just embarrasses a lot of Americans, and infuriates the rest of the world.
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No, I stand by my words. I realize that I am old school and have different beliefs than others, but that is also ‘my’ right to do so.

Just remember, your post is your opinion, which I found to be partially offensive. You are more outspoken than I am, so I will just leave it at that and BTW, I don’t even own a horse.

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Sunny said:
A friend and I recently got into a discussion about the Pledge being recited in American schools every day. It's been a long time since I was in a school, so I don't know if it's still being used, but I do know that the Pledge of Allegiance is recited at the beginning of many events, club meetings, etc.

I have some friends who are adamantly opposed to saying it, and won't even stand up when it is recited. Some people will stand up, but I notice that they aren't saying anything. I think they consider it brain washing, and refuse to recite a pledge that makes them feel like programmed automatons. Some of them stopped saying it when the words "under God" were stuck in, I think during the Eisenhower years.

As I told the friend in this discussion, I can remember when, back in my schoolteaching days, we had to read 5 verses from the Bible, lead the class in the Lord's Prayer, and have all the kids face the flag and recite the Pledge. This was in public school in NJ. I don't know if it's still being done; it may vary from state to state. And I do know how I feel about the religion part of it (strangely, it never occurred to me to object back in those days), but I still recite the Pledge. To me, it's a reminder of what this country is supposed to stand for. But I don't like the idea of kids being forced to say it.

How do you feel about the Pledge of Allegiance? Are you pro or con? Or somewhere in the middle (no objection to it being said by anybody who wants to say it, but you respectfully decline?)

If you are not American, does your country have a similar pledge?
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I’m against anything where we are forced, whether real or imagined, to declare we join in thinking like everyone else (in the group). I imagine children are more enlightened today, and can refuse to participate. I wonder what would have happened to us back in the 50s had we refused to pledge or pray?
 
Barbara971 said:
I’m against anything where we are forced, whether real or imagined, to declare we join in thinking like everyone else (in the group). I imagine children are more enlightened today, and can refuse to participate. I wonder what would have happened to us back in the 50s had we refused to pledge or pray?
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We would have been sent to the principal's office for sure.
 
Wontactmyage said:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

As you can see from my post there were many previous versions. Please don’t throw the baby out with the bath water over the word “God”. I believe that we- Americans need to continue to be united.
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How about my version: "I pledge allegiance to the people of the United States of America and to the democratic principles for which they stand, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice sought for all." Since I wrote this version, I'm quite comfortable in saying it. I think it's more honest, more goal oriented, and potentially more unifying.
 
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Barbara971 said:
I’m against anything where we are forced, whether real or imagined, to declare we join in thinking like everyone else (in the group). I imagine children are more enlightened today, and can refuse to participate. I wonder what would have happened to us back in the 50s had we refused to pledge or pray?
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Circa 1958 (?), I was asked to leave the Catholic catechism classes for refusing to say "I believe in God, etc." As for the school issue, the principal and I came to a compromise - I would stand, but not be required to speak the pledge or put my hand over my heart. I was okay with these reactions - much less damaging to my self-esteem than being a hypocrite and faking it.
 
StarSong said:
Like many, I disagree with "under God" being inserted. And we haven't yet provided justice for all.
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I went to Catholic grade school, so we said prayers and the pledge often. Been decades for me regarding the recital of either. Nobody in this country should be required to say either on a daily basis or often, especially young children. I completely agree with you about the under God part, and liberty and justice for all did not ring true years ago, and it sure as hell doesn't ring true in the current time.
 
Wontactmyage said:
So

So is there a country that is atheist as a majority?
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What countries are officially atheist?

Image result for is there a country that is atheist as a majority?
Either currently or in their past, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Cuba are or were officially atheist.

Which country has highest percentage of atheist?

Relative to its own populations, Zuckerman ranks the top 5 countries with the highest possible ranges of atheists and agnostics: Sweden (46-85%), Vietnam (81%), Denmark (43-80%), Norway (31-72%), and Japan (64-65%).
 
We said it in elementary school but at that stage in my life it had no meaning, just a bunch of words. I didn't understand respect and patriosiam until later in life, now it truly hurts me to see people who act disgusted to be a US citizen.

To answer the question I see no harm in the pledge of allegiance being said in schools, but also wish we could find a way to get our young (and old) to love and appreciate this country. (And yes I know things aren't perfect)
 
The Pledge of Allegiance is a Pledge I still Honor. I think it should be required in schools as it introduces the kids, early on, to the concept of God and Country. When they become adults, they can choose to deny both God and Country, but until then they should be expected to do the Pledge when required.
 

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