Pledge of Allegiance - are you pro or con?

Like others, I said the pledge every day in school without giving it a second thought. Recently however, the practice has unsettled me.

Imagine seeing videos of classrooms in Iran, North Korea, China and Russia where children are required to recite loyalty oaths to their government every morning. Wouldn't that disturb you?

Shift your focus to American classrooms where children are swearing allegiance to the US government beginning at age 5.

Why would or should 5 year olds need to pledge allegiance to a government? The answer is that it is to the government's benefit. It's early indoctrination, just as surely as it is when little North Korea children are required pledge loyalty to their government.

A country should earn loyalty and patriotism by the way it serves its citizens rather than through years of mindless indoctrination.
 
Last edited:
Australian schools no longer have the children recite pledges of loyalty although they did when i was in primary school. It was part of the flag raising ceremony at outdoor assembly on the quadrangle before school. It went something like this

I honour my God, I serve the King, I salute the flag.

Looking around a bit to see what other countries do I found this rather cheeky post from a citizen of the United Kingdom

What is the British equivalent of the pledge of allegiance?
This.
read it carefully and memorise the entire thing;
“
“.
That’s it. The entire thing. You see, Brits have no need to force “ loyalty “ on their citizens. It is assumed.
Click to expand...
Certain professions related to the Crown (parliamentarians, military personnel etc) recite an Oath of Office and at citizenship ceremonies the new citizens all recite an oath of loyalty.

It comes in two versions

Pledge 1
From this time forward, under God,
I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people,
whose democratic beliefs I share,
whose rights and liberties I respect,
and whose laws I will uphold and obey.

Pledge 2
From this time forward,
I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people,
whose democratic beliefs I share,
whose rights and liberties I respect,
and whose laws I will uphold and obey.

You may choose either one of these for your ceremony. You may also bring a holy book for during your ceremony if you so choose.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
We said the Pledge and would have Prayer when I was Elementary School.
That had pretty well stopped by Jr. High - as I recall.
That was turbulent times - Vietnam and al

I think saying the Pledge is a good thing.

DhnrC5sl.png
 
StarSong said:
Like others, I said the pledge every day in school without giving it a second thought. Recently however, the practice has unsettled me.

Imagine seeing videos of classrooms in Iran, North Korea, China and Russia where children are required to recite loyalty oaths to their government every morning. Wouldn't that disturb you?

Shift your focus to American classrooms where children are swearing allegiance to the US government beginning at age 5.

Why would or should 5 year olds need to pledge allegiance to a government? The answer is that it is to the government's benefit. It's early indoctrination, just as surely as it is when little North Korea children are required pledge loyalty to their government.

A country should earn loyalty and patriotism by the way it serves its citizens rather than through years of mindless indoctrination.
Click to expand...
You pledge allegiance to the flag, not the gov't. You choose the gov't. (ideally)
 
Sunny said:
The Pledge of Allegiance
Click to expand...
The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country.

In its original form it read:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Click to expand...
In 1923, the words, "the Flag of the United States of America" were added. At this time it read:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Click to expand...
In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God," creating the 31-word pledge we say today. Bellamy's daughter objected to this alteration.
Today it reads:"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
 
Like you Sunny, I had to listen to prayers in school, but only at Assembly on Friday. I can't imagine those would contain the NT as our school was 98% Jewish, but I had no idea at the time. I always liked saying the Pledge; like @Aunt Bea I think it's a uniter. It was my mother who told me when I was little how/why Under God was added. The words never bothered me in this context. I'll go along with it, though it should be taken out, IMO.
 
StarSong said:
Like others, I said the pledge every day in school without giving it a second thought. Recently however, the practice has unsettled me.

Imagine seeing videos of classrooms in Iran, North Korea, China and Russia where children are required to recite loyalty oaths to their government every morning. Wouldn't that disturb you?

Shift your focus to American classrooms where children are swearing allegiance to the US government beginning at age 5.

Why would or should 5 year olds need to pledge allegiance to a government? The answer is that it is to the government's benefit. It's early indoctrination, just as surely as it is when little North Korea children are required pledge loyalty to their government.

A country should earn loyalty and patriotism by the way it serves its citizens rather than through years of mindless indoctrination.
Click to expand...
SS: I respectfully disagree. When we pledge allegiance to the flag, we aren’t pledging anything to the government. It’s all about the flag and what it stands for and the many people who died to protect the flag and the freedoms that go with it. It may be considered a form of indoctrination, but I see it as a positive form. Having served 7 years in the Marines, and having a father who served this country for most of his life, maybe I just see things regarding the flag in a different light than some others.

For whatever strange reason, every time I repeat the pledge, I visualize the Marines raising the flag on Mount Suribachi on the island of Iwo Jima during WWII. It was so important to those 6 Marines to raise the flag that they were willing to risk their life to raise it. Did you know that out of those 6 Marines, only 4 left the island alive? I guess the flag just means more or maybe differently to me than some others.
 
It states, "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands...

It is indeed a loyalty oath to the government, which in my opinion, is an inappropriate daily demand/request to make of little children. Sure, court cases have upheld a child's right to opt out of uttering the pledge, but it would obviously be at great social cost to the child when fitting in with classmates is crucial.

Like many, I disagree with "under God" being inserted. And we haven't yet provided justice for all.
 
SeniorBen said:
A discussion about the "intent" of the pledge might upset some people.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written by Francis Bellamy, a Christian Socialist. 😲
Bellamy was a Christian socialist[1] who "championed 'the rights of working people and the equal distribution of economic resources, which he believed was inherent in the teachings of Jesus.'"[6] In 1891, Bellamy was "forced from his Boston pulpit for preaching against the evils of capitalism",[3] and eventually stopped attending church altogether after moving to Florida, reportedly because of the racism he witnessed there.[7] Francis's career as a preacher ended because of his tendency to describe Jesus as a socialist. In the 21st century, Bellamy is considered an early American democratic socialist.[8]​

Bellamy was a firm believer in the separation of church and state, which is why his pledge didn't contain any mention of God. "Under god" was added during the '50s as part of the Cold War fight against "godless communists. "

Although he was against racism, he was also a bit of a xenophobe.
On immigration and universal suffrage, Bellamy wrote in the editorial of The Illustrated American, Vol. XXII, No. 394, p. 258: "[a] democracy like ours cannot afford to throw itself open to the world where every man is a lawmaker, every dull-witted or fanatical immigrant admitted to our citizenship is a bane to the commonwealth.”[6] And further: "Where all classes of society merge insensibly into one another every alien immigrant of inferior race may bring corruption to the stock. There are races more or less akin to our own whom we may admit freely and get nothing but advantage by the infusion of their wholesome blood. But there are other races, which we cannot assimilate without lowering our racial standard, which should be as sacred to us as the sanctity of our homes."[10]​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy
Click to expand...
Wow - I was almost ready to stop objecting to the pledge of allegiance (except for the addition of the god reference added later by someone else) given the author's bio in the first paragraphs of this thread, but then - OH MY! The "racial standard" line really reversed that opinion.

Anything that folks are forced to repeat is indoctrination. If we are going to indoctrinate people, how about pledging to be kind and accepting of others?
 
I am smiling as I read this thread. Canadians don't have such a ceremony here. On the other hand when I joined the Canadian Armed Forces, I swore to respect and obey the officers appointed to lead us, and to be of good behavior. When I was called to be a Crown witness in a attempted murder trial I swore to tell the truth. New Canadians swear to be of good behavior, obey the laws of Canada, and honor our heritage. I see some young people here in Canada who have adopted the American practice of holding their hand over their heart during our national anthem, but I put that down to the influence of US TV shows being shown in Canada, like football games. JimB.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
My problem with the Pledge Of Allegiance is "under God". I'm an atheist. What has the belief in a deity have to do with allegiance to my nation?
Click to expand...
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

As you can see from my post there were many previous versions. Please don’t throw the baby out with the bath water over the word “God”. I believe that we- Americans need to continue to be united.
 
United we stand, divided we fall. That's what's wrong with the U.S. right now. It's everyone for themselves and let the other guy be damned. If we can't unite under the symbol of our country, we are headed for disaster. I'm always proud to say it, and while I'm not religious, that includes "under God".
 
jimintoronto said:
I am smiling as I read this thread. Canadians don't have such a ceremony here. On the other hand when I joined the Canadian Armed Forces, I swore to respect and obey the officers appointed to lead us, and to be of good behavior. When I was called to be a Crown witness in a attempted murder trial I swore to tell the truth. New Canadians swear to be of good behavior, obey the laws of Canada, and honor our heritage. I see some young people here in Canada who have adopted the American practice of holding their hand over their heart during our national anthem, but I put that down to the influence of US TV shows being shown in Canada, like football games. JimB.
Click to expand...
Too bad you can't do fly-overs before your hockey games. :LOL: (based on TV, I assume they're all played indoors)
 
Aunt Bea said:
My problem with the Pledge Of Allegiance is "under God". I'm an atheist. What has the belief in a deity have to do with allegiance to my nation?
Click to expand...
So
fuzzybuddy said:
My problem with the Pledge Of Allegiance is "under God". I'm an atheist. What has the belief in a deity have to do with allegiance to my nation?
Click to expand...
So is there a country that is atheist as a majority?
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top