Have difficulty believing the Bible.

Just Jeff said:
It is not possible for man to figure out.
The Creator did create man and woman without an "evil" gene.
The Creator did not create automatons / robots to fill the earth, but man and woman. He Created them with the ability to think, and to choose, with free will .
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That's as good an answer as anyone can manage, so if you are asserting "man cannot figure out" (or not figure out the mind of God), then you've still used your "God given abilities" to get as close as most of us probably could in my opinion, as I've said! :)
 

Em in Ohio said:
My difficulty with the bible begins with the described nature of "God." Without going into a long list of derogatory adjectives, I just can't respect the personage described. The problems that I have with the bible include the time-table of events, the plagiarism, the translations, editing, and perpetual revisions. Certainly, there are some worthy behavioral guidelines - specific to the places and times - but they were not original ideas and they would fit on one page.

I'm in the process of writing my own behavioral guidelines. Perhaps they are words given to me directly by this biblical god: The Newest New Testament by Em ! I demand that everyone listen and obey or else! (-;
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This is the argument I have when the Jehovah's Witnesses call. The 'God' of the Old Testament does not sound like the loving father Jesus referred to.
 

Just Jeff said:
It is not possible for man to figure out.
The Creator did create man and woman without an "evil" gene.
The Creator did not create automatons / robots to fill the earth, but man and woman. He Created them with the ability to think, and to choose, with free will .
Click to expand...
I thought I'd responded to this but it must have gotten lost on the tablet computer system somehow!

What I think I said is that you've done as good a job there of trying to come close to understanding the "mind of God", though of course this is something beyond human understanding, (as are so many things of course!).
 
David777 said:
You obviously need to do some basic homework understanding how oral history in ancient civilizations worked. Do a web search.
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garyt1957 said:
So you're suggesting that the story never changed from one telling to the next? OK
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We can't even get written history to reflect truth accurately. I attended a class on oral history one time. It was put on by Native Americans, who praised it highly, but they said nothing to explain why it was as good, let alone better than written history. It takes more than deep reverence to preserve truth.
 
Expected someone else to push back on the reliability of ancient oral history that gives me a reason to educate those who won't bother to research it themselves. While it is true that ancient oral tradition was widely criticized by form criticism scholars a century ago, since then, modern archeology and research scholars including secular, have overwhelmingly abandoned that view though anti-religious may still try and use that argument to a general public audience. Importantly, ancient oral tradition did not exactly record conversations but then that is not important except to the minority that push absolute inspired inerrancy.

https://reknew.org/2021/11/how-reliable-was-the-early-churchs-oral-traditions/
snippets:

The view that the oral traditions of the early Jesus-movement were unreliable became a widespread conviction within New Testament scholarship with the advent of a discipline known as “form criticism” in the late 19th and early 20th century...

1) It has been widely assumed by form critics that the early Christian movement was entirely illiterate and thus that writing played no regulative role in the transmission of oral material about Jesus. With no authoritative writing to keep oral traditions in check, it has been widely assumed, oral material about Jesus was easily altered in the process of transmission.

2) It has been almost unanimously assumed by form critics that oral traditions aren’t capable of passing on extended narratives, which is one of the reasons many critical New Testament scholars have assumed that the narrative structure in which the various literature forms are found in the Gospels was created by the Gospel authors themselves. That is, it does not go back to the historical Jesus.

3) It has been widely assumed that orally dominated communities have little genuine historical interest. That is, it has been assumed that the needs and interests of the community shaped oral performances much more than a concern to pass on past events and teachings accurately. Hence, it has been assumed by form critics that the oral Jesus material arose more out of needs within the community than out of true historical remembrance.

4) Finally, it has been wildly assumed by form critics that individuals play little role in the origination, transmission and regulation of oral traditions . Communities, not individuals, pass on oral traditions. Hence, it’s been widely assumed that the eyewitnesses of Jesus (if there were any) would have played little or no regulative role in what form the earliest oral traditions about Jesus took. Without eyewitness safeguards, the oral traditions about Jesus could be easily altered.

Clearly, if each of these assumptions is correct, the legendary-Jesus thesis becomes more plausible than if they’re mistaken...

We shall now argue that recent archeological research, and especially a revolution that has been taking place in orality studies over the last several decades, strongly suggest that, as a matter of fact, each of their assumptions was dead wrong...

The overall narrative framework and essential content of the portrait of Jesus we find in these texts is quite consistent, but there is also considerable freedom in how the material is presented. The order of events and wording of Jesus’ sayings, for example, is slightly different in each Gospel, though the basic content is the same. In light of the new discoveries in orality studies, this suggests that we should view the Gospels as written versions of specific oral performances of traditional Jesus material. And the gist of it all is that it reinforces the view that the oral traditions that lie behind the Gospels — including their overall narrative framework– are solidly rooted in history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels
 
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Sunny said:
Serenity, if we were to follow that "free will" example, if I was a parent of a young child who wanted to take a large knife out of the kitchen and go next door and kill the kid who lives there, I would have to allow him to do it, because he had free will. That's basically what the "free will" argument is suggesting.

That's part of the fallacy with the "all-powerful, all-loving, all-good" deity that many keep conjuring up. If all that was true, what about evil, violence, hatred, and all the other horrors that mankind inflicts on each other? We would have no choices at all.

Gary, I remember that game. It was called Telephone.
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No ... Humans are not God and God is not a parent...far more is involved and on a different level. Again, evil is created by man not God...and man suffers the effects imo..we have the choice to do good or not..and we will suffer the consequences if we chose evil. There is another element..we are all one..connected on a level we don't necessarily feel or realize. It is almost impossible to explain what I believe in the few words allowed here and the limited time. :unsure:

I remember telephone too!!:D
 
garyt1957 said:
Why didn't God just create man without the "evil" gene?
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my opinion.. because God gave us free will...knowledge of good and evilEve should not have eaten that apple!:ROFLMAO:...lol I suppose if God had not given us knowledge of both sides we would all be good, wonderful, beautiful people.🤗.then what would we do?
LOL I have in the past wondered what will we all do once everyone is enlightened ...They say too, without bad/evil we can not appreciate good..so we wouldn't enjoy the good as much!!
...but I kind of agree with you..why is all this nec essary..:unsure::)
 
grahamg said:
That's as good an answer as anyone can manage, so if you are asserting "man cannot figure out" (or not figure out the mind of God), then you've still used your "God given abilities" to get as close as most of us probably could in my opinion, as I've said! :)
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I believe we are not yet 'evolved' enough to fully understand our lives ...
 
Serenity4321 said:
my opinion.. because God gave us free will...knowledge of good and evilEve should not have eaten that apple!:ROFLMAO:...lol I suppose if God had not given us knowledge of both sides we would all be good, wonderful, beautiful people.🤗.then what would we do?
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Why not create good, wonderful, beautiful people?
To do otherwise sounds like an experiment. One that an attempt was made to correct but failed.
2000 years later were wishing for peace & harmony knowing full well that isn't going to happen.
 
Knight said:
Why not create good, wonderful, beautiful people?
To do otherwise sounds like an experiment. One that an attempt was made to correct but failed.
2000 years later were wishing for peace & harmony knowing full well that isn't going to happen.
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I do not know why God did what God did. I have often thought the same ..why couldn't we all be wonderful and perfect from the start...but we weren't and we are not so I suppose there must be a reason we can not fully as yet grasp..lol I realize that is a cop-out but it's all I have :D
 
grahamg said:
That's as good an answer as anyone can manage, so if you are asserting "man cannot figure out" (or not figure out the mind of God), then you've still used your "God given abilities" to get as close as most of us probably could in my opinion, as I've said!
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No. The Creator did not give "God given abilities" for man to know God nor to find Him. All the "abilities" in the flesh are fleshly, worldly, carnal, and not spiritual at all.

Faith, a gift from The Creator, is needed. Without Faith, it is Impossible to please The Creator.

Seek for Him, little children, stay free from idols /overwhelming today/
Keep Seeking Him, while /if possible/ He May Still Be Found.

As He Permits, As He Purposes, As Is Written.
 
Serenity4321 said:
I do not know why God did what God did. I have often thought the same ..why couldn't we all be wonderful and perfect from the start...but we weren't and we are not so I suppose there must be a reason we can not fully as yet grasp..lol I realize that is a cop-out but it's all I have
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Good Start. Even if it was or is a cop-out, it is necessary to admit we do not know, before we can find out.

The answers, to your questions, btw, are clearly written in Torah/Scripture.

May the Father in Heaven Reveal to you the Truth, True Peace/serenity/ and Joy in Healing, in Perfect Harmony with all Torah/Scripture.
 
Serenity4321 said:
.we have the choice to do good or not..and we will suffer the consequences if we chose evil.
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Yes,
and we will be rewarded by the eternal consequences if we choose good.
Cain was told that sin is crouching at the door, resist it.
We are told, resist the devil, and he will flee. Little children can resist the devil, and the devil flees as The Creator Promises.
 
Just Jeff said:
Good Start. Even if it was or is a cop-out, it is necessary to admit we do not know, before we can find out.

The answers, to your questions, btw, are clearly written in Torah/Scripture.

May the Father in Heaven Reveal to you the Truth, True Peace/serenity/ and Joy in Healing, in Perfect Harmony with all Torah/Scripture.
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TY there is truth and beauty in almost all religions..
 
grahamg said:
I thought I'd responded to this but it must have gotten lost on the tablet computer system somehow!

What I think I said is that you've done as good a job there of trying to come close to understanding the "mind of God", though of course this is something beyond human understanding, (as are so many things of course!).
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Yes, way way way beyond human understanding.
The Creator's Ways are as high above/and different from/ man's
as Heaven is above the earth and totally different from worldly ways.
 


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