Have difficulty believing the Bible.

The Bible is western history. Not the book itself, not necessarily, but the impact of the book formed much of western thought, the other main thoughts being greco-roman. It's influence is undeniable whether one believes it or not.
 

Em in Ohio said:
Probably quite true. However there are people who are interested in the topics and controversies raised (like me) and those who are "undecided." Personally, I'm okay with the quotes, but would like to know which version of the bible they are from.
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For me, the first order of business is to know the source of the quotes and the authenticity of the source. The quotes themselves sometimes offer bits of common wisdom, but most of the time the conversation goes along lines of, "How do you know God exists," followed by "Something 8:27 There shall be a great light upon the Earth that all men shall see." It doesn't provide any information to the question. It's just throwing out a Bible verse. It would be like saying, "I don't think Alice in Wonderland is a true story," and someone responds, "The Queen of Hearts says, "Off with their heads!"
 
It is nonsense on an informal web board to suggest members presenting terse comments ought include the level of source information one would present in a legal case or book bibliography citation. In the case of the Bible, anyone today can themselves bother to look up any presented numbered scripture and the ways different authors have interpreted text including the original Hebrew. (ie. see below link) Just because someone presents a premise during a discussion or debate that tends to support a conclusion doesn't mean it was intended to be taken as black and white true or false. That noted, I do tend to extensively use relative terms because during informal conversation many people may otherwise absorb statements rigidly. Also if Iincluding news article snippets, always post a link.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/
 

Gary O' said:
Just to get man's attention
We would've annihilated ourselves

Gensis 6
The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


One might read about the Amalekites
They were pretty dastardly
They'd attack the Israelites from behind
Killing the women and children
Yes, God slew them


The specific context of the old testament time period is crucial.
In ancient Near Eastern culture, triumph in warfare was commonly associated with the strength of a nation’s god.
Consequently, the annihilation of Israel’s enemies conveyed that the one true God of Israel had asserted his power and rule over the false gods of other groups.

Nothing's changed
Salvation is from the beginning to the end of the Bible

One must study......prayerfully
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Why didn't God just create man without the "evil" gene?
 
Lavinia said:
The issue of birth control is a complete misunderstanding. The early Church was established by men who thought sexual intercourse should only be indulged in when a couple wanted to conceive a child. Their problem lies in people having sex at other times. It's not contraception which the Church objects to, it's having sex which doesn't lead to pregnancy. If people actually thought about it, they would realise that themselves.
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Isn't that the same thing said differently?
 
Criticizing Christians by framing their beliefs like the minority of Creationists?

God didn't "make" humans, per overwhelming science evidence, humans obviously DNA organically evolved over 4 billion years. That noted, I lean towards the probability as a race of UIE's, they genetically improved early homo species that resulted in Adam & Eve. An experiment that was not adequately successful. That is also why they lived for centuries before diffusion after Noah's time resulted in current maximum 120 year lifespans.
 
Capt Lightning said:
The statement that "he (Jesus) took the punishment for all our sins at once", suggests that the 'slate was wiped clean' for all 'sins' committed up to that time. This begs two questions. 1. What happened to those who had been punished previously?, and 2. What about everyone who has 'sinned' since? This was 2000 years ago after all.
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I have always had a problem with being expected to take the Bible literally...there is more than one meaning to almost everything and the fascinating fact is that different people will interpret things differently. That is the beauty of the book as well as any great work of art...
 
Em in Ohio said:
I'm compulsively honest and blatantly honest. I've stood in long lines for long times to return items sent to me by mistake or taken out of a store by mistake, including a 40 cent balloon. I got one traffic ticket in 56 years of driving for speeding 10 miles over the speed limit when I finally got tired of the car in front of me going 15-25 in a 35 mile per hour zone on my way to a job at a church.

I do not see the relevance.

So now to the only part of this post that I understand: the all-powerful god/creator under discussion who doesn't bother intervening in the killing of innocent children is a real jerk (among many other things) in my opinion and not deserving of respect.
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I find it fascinating that we all see God and creation and what happens in the world differently. One school of thought says God has nothing to do with evil..it is all man created and God allows it because God gave us free will..we are co-creators and powerful enough to do great things and evil things.
 
David777 said:
An important communication facet of the issue of inerrancy of the Bible that few casually discussing the matter understand is the nature of oral history especially how it was used in those ancient times. Very very little was written down and rather information was passed through oral tellings that were never for audiences expected to be the exact words of an event or what someone actually stated but rather communicated the essence of whatever. A good storyteller was supposed to make whatever interesting.

That is why the same stories wording in the synoptic gospels tend to all vary somewhat. That someone will doggedly try to argue each gospel's differing words were exactly true is obvious logical nonsense. But to steer an argument into rejecting oral history because it wasn't what exactly actually happened shows an ignorance of how ancient oral history functioned. I would highly recommend those many that don't understand the nature of ancient oral history to spend a little time on the web reading how historical experts interpret such.

If say all 3 synoptic gospels had exactly the same wording, it would indicate they were copied from the same source. By being slightly different, that significantly shows the essence of whatever to more likely be reasonably accurate. The same logic plays out in this modern era in courts when multiple witnesses with possible agendas suspiciously state identical stories as though conspirantly rehearsed.
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You ever see that game they play at parties where one person is told something and they have to repeat it down the line to the next and so on for about 5 people and how at the end the statement told is nowhere near the original?
 
chic said:
I've always had trouble with Jesus and I'm a Catholic so that's a biggie. But So much of it doesn't make sense. I don't know if he really existed because he left no writings behind though he would have been literate. I don't understand why he had to be executed in such a horrific way to pay for OUR mistakes, we are told. I would have been much more impressed if he had stepped down off the cross and everyone would have seen and many believed and people would have changed, perhaps on the spot, and I always have the ghastly feeling that is what was supposed to happen but didn't because he said, according to scripture as he was dying, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?"
I'm in a crisis of faith anyway in my personal life due to the way everything changes daily since the pandemic and the high cost of everything is seriously beginning to hurt. Everyday someone says to me they don't like the way the world is anymore and the way it is becoming and no longer wish to live in it. I have no comfort to offer because I feel the same. :cry:
I was always a charitable person but now I have nothing left over to be charitable with.
If anyone has watched the movie "The Last Temptation of Christ" I think it explains the Jesus story the best of any book/film I have ever experienced. The solution is right in the title. Cleverly done.
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Sorry to hear you are feeling this way. I had a 'crisis of faith in my 20's. I have looked at many different philosophies and found joy and truth in most of them. I especially liked Buddism though I am a non-practicing Catholic:oops:. I have concluded this is such a personal journey each of us must find it for ourselves. Different ideas and philosophies will resonate differently with everyone but the pursuit is worth it IMO. Charity can also be in good thoughts, and words and does not necessarily have to be material. All the best!
 
garyt1957 said:
You ever see that game they play at parties where one person is told something and they have to repeat it down the line to the next and so on for about 5 people and how at the end the statement told is nowhere near the original?
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You obviously need to do some basic homework understanding how oral history in ancient civilizations worked. Do a web search.
 
garyt1957 said:
You ever see that game they play at parties where one person is told something and they have to repeat it down the line to the next and so on for about 5 people and how at the end the statement told is nowhere near the original?
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And that is why we each have to find the truth for ourselves..all the great philosophers have said 'look within' because that is where we can all find the answers...meditation in some form like prayer can help but everyone has to find their own path..and there are many to choose from
 
Serenity, if we were to follow that "free will" example, if I was a parent of a young child who wanted to take a large knife out of the kitchen and go next door and kill the kid who lives there, I would have to allow him to do it, because he had free will. That's basically what the "free will" argument is suggesting.

That's part of the fallacy with the "all-powerful, all-loving, all-good" deity that many keep conjuring up. If all that was true, what about evil, violence, hatred, and all the other horrors that mankind inflicts on each other? We would have no choices at all.

Gary, I remember that game. It was called Telephone.
 
Serenity4321 said:
Sorry to hear you are feeling this way. I had a 'crisis of faith in my 20's. I have looked at many different philosophies and found joy and truth in most of them. I especially liked Buddism though I am a non-practicing Catholic:oops:. I have concluded this is such a personal journey each of us must find it for ourselves. Different ideas and philosophies will resonate differently with everyone but the pursuit is worth it IMO. Charity can also be in good thoughts, and words and does not necessarily have to be material. All the best!
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I need a refresher course in Buddhism, but I do recall thinking it made more sense to me than the Catholic missal (edited bible) or others. Many times I have looked for something to believe in that provided guidance and comfort - not necessarily religious nor spiritual. For me, I settled on two poems - Invictus* for strength and Desiderata for relationships.

I agree, it's a personal journey and we must find our own way. The pursuit of knowledge and understanding is always worthwhile, in my opinion.

* I believe that I was 7 or 8 when I memorized the poem Invictus by William Ernest Henley. That was after I researched what all the lines meant! But, the thing that stood out for me was that this was the first time I heard of anyone not absolutely convinced of the reality of god, yet still open to the possibility. I thought I was all alone in my doubts. It was comforting! "I thank whatever gods may be for my unconquerable soul."
 
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Marie5656 said:
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Perhaps we should celebrate having been given the gift of reason, by however this might have happened, and use it to inform ourselves questions such as those raised in the OP aren't likely to find easy answers acceptable to everybody.

Lets all give ourselves too the chance to think deeply, whatever conclusions we might draw from that, and try to remember the best of us won't have all the answers, no matter how implaccably we might believe we do, or say we do!
 
oldaunt said:
Yet it is constantly in your face in movies, TV, news media, and all over the internet. As for "our age group", ALL those young single people are having FAR more than I did, or anyone I knew. We had parents with morals, and they were determined to pass them on.
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I think what Pepper may have been referring to is that the youth of today are too busy being attached to their phones and their video games - hands on electronics instead of each other! (I could be wrong, but that's how I took it.) As for my generation's parental role models, some had morals - but I know of several who had none. /-;
 
grahamg said:
Keep scratching your head and who knows you might figure that one out for yourself, (if you do be sure to come back and tell us all)!
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It is not possible for man to figure out.

The Creator did create man and woman without an "evil" gene.

The Creator did not create automatons / robots to fill the earth, but man and woman. He Created them with the

ability to think, and to choose, with free will .
 
Gary O' said:
We would've annihilated ourselves

Gensis 6
The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
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Likewise very much so today.

The wickedness was so great, the earth was so full of evil , at that time/ the day of Noah,
that it could hold no more wickedness,
and mankind would have destroyed itself soon. This is true today also, or close to it now.
 


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