The Homeless....

JaniceM said:
I don't mean to take thread further off-topic, but must say I agree with you.

"The homeless" in this area know where to find every freebie imaginable- food, shelter, clothes, medical care, etc. while, as one local worded it, they have no incentive to do anything for themselves.
Don't mistake me for belonging to this political ideology overall, but I do agree with the concept "From each according to his ability.. to each according to his needs." It irks me to no end that the majority of these individuals (locally anyway) are perfectly capable of taking/holding JOBS.
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BUT they are not capable Janice.....This is where they need Help....
Again, If youve not had any mental illness s ......You wont understand ...not your problem.....
 

charry said:
But They DOnt Want housing and jobs dennis.....Just a shelter at night , thats all they ask...
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Yes I know. Can you imagine our culture if the Churches began to solve public and governmental problems, of which homelessness is increasing dramatically? It feels tome like we are just putting a band aid on a deep wound. For now, yea, the Churches are taking in the homeless in many parts of the country. Unless the downward trend in getting jobs that you can survive on continues, we are going to see more and more homeless. Nice idea for a while., but we need to find a way to halt the downward spiral.
 
charry said:
BUT they are not capable Janice.....This is where they need Help....
Again, If youve not had any mental illness s ......You wont understand ...not your problem.....
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Well, it's become my problem, first because I care about my fellow human beings, and second because I've experienced a longtime nice area become too dangerous to live in.
 

charry said:
NO Way rgp......These people are travellers....they dont want to stay put anywhere, thats why they dont choose to live like Normal (what is normal ) i ask you.....lol
Google Brighton Sussex UK
then you will understand ....
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I am not sure that all the homeless are "travelers". I would guess that maybe 1/4 of them have that urge, and many can't care for themselves mentally...so they are messed up. The majority do not want to be homeless.
 
Paco Dennis said:
Yes I know. Can you imagine our culture if the Churches began to solve public and governmental problems, of which homelessness is increasing dramatically? It feels tome like we are just putting a band aid on a deep wound. For now, yea, the Churches are taking in the homeless in many parts of the country. Unless the downward trend in getting jobs that you can survive on continues, we are going to see more and more homeless. Nice idea for a while., but we need to find a way to halt the downward spiral.
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exactly dennis.........in this recessions , we are going through now,
people are working their backs off, cant afford there morrtgage, or food bills....Etc Etc
their mental health is reclining, "what can they do" THey cant do anymore"......
Just KIndness, and Support Needed.......
WE cant Do anymore.....
 
The 'easy' answers already asked have been tried over the years, many times. As others have indicated, these simple ideas of just offering a warm place to sleep doesn't work. The problem is so much more complicated than that. You have many different reasons people are in these conditions. Some are mentally ill and cannot think clearly about their situation. We don't have state run asylum's anymore where these people were cared for, they (our government) just turned them out on the street with no fallback plan. Granted the asylums did not treat the people as most people thought they should, but they did the best they could with the funding they had. I toured one of these places in Colorado many years ago, it was hard to see, but they all had beds, food, clean clothes and showers. Not all took advantage of what was available but was better than living under the freeway in cardboard boxes and they had no access to illegal drugs or alcohol.

I also spent time at a homeless shelter in Denver, Colorado working with the Manager. Anyone could check in, if they had room available, but the second night was not offered unless they stayed 'sober' no drugs or alcohol in their system. When they checked in every day, they were checked. Many only had one night with them. A few made it a few nights, very few made it a month. They did rehab people who really wanted to get back to a normal life, but most did not really have the resolve to stay the course. My conclusion was that most of the people who are homeless are addicted to drugs/ alcohol. They choose to stay addicted, as many programs to help them with addiction and provide food, shelter, and in time a job, are available in all big cities. They just have given up and their addition is all they have left! Sad but true! Not that we should not continue to offer help, as some will wake up and decide to crawl out of the gutter, but sadly many will die before they awaken!
 

The Homeless....​


It's a very tough call

Been around it, worked with it

Been there

At present;
Settled on giving out tiny New Testaments with a few dollars tucked in it

Winter is different
Handing out hot drinks, soups.....coats, blankets from Goodwill

Praying


'Tis the season
 
Timewise 60+ said:
The 'easy' answers already asked have been tried over the years, many times. As others have indicated, these simple ideas of just offering a warm place to sleep doesn't work. The problem is so much more complicated than that. You have many different reasons people are in these conditions. Some are mentally ill and cannot think clearly about their situation. We don't have state run asylum's anymore where these people were cared for, they (our government) just turned them out on the street with no fallback plan. Granted the asylums did not treat the people as most people thought they should, but they did the best they could with the funding they had. I toured one of these places in Colorado many years ago, it was hard to see, but they all had beds, food, clean clothes and showers. Not all took advantage of what was available but was better than living under the freeway in cardboard boxes and they had no access to illegal drugs or alcohol.

I also spent time at a homeless shelter in Denver, Colorado working with the Manager. Anyone could check in, if they had room available, but the second night was not offered unless they stayed 'sober' no drugs or alcohol in their system. When they checked in every day, they were checked. Many only had one night with them. A few made it a few nights, very few made it a month. They did rehab people who really wanted to get back to a normal life, but most did not really have the resolve to stay the course. My conclusion was that most of the people who are homeless are addicted to drugs/ alcohol. They choose to stay addicted, as many programs to help them with addiction and provide food, shelter, and in time a job, are available in all big cities. They just have given up and their addition is all they have left! Sad but true! Not that we should not continue to offer help, as some will wake up and decide to crawl out of the gutter, but sadly many will die before they awaken!
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re: where you said 'choose to stay addicted,' it's not always a matter of 'choice.' However, with this housing program (backfiring every whichway, all around the U.S.), individuals are provided with their own personal apartments yet NEVER required to go into rehab or do anything else.

On one side of the issue, I've known numerous individuals who had this arrangement for more than two years.. and in worse shape than when they moved in.
 
rgp said:
Can't or choose not to ? If they truly cannot, then they very likely need to be institutionalized/housed on a permanent basis. {Re-open the asylums}
If they choose not to ? I really don't care how they get by.

I don't think it's a life time goal to be homeless. I have a hard time believing being homeless is your fondest wish come true. You are correct in that if one can't take care of himself, he needs to be institutionalized And, that's the problem, there are none. We closed them. Of course, if the former residents acted up, there is jail. It's a lot cheaper to toss someone in jail, than to rehabilitate him, in a medical setting. So, as long as the homeless don't do costly things, like going to jail, nobody cares what the hell they do, nor how they survive.
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As far as churches acting as night homes. I've heard the homeless tend to stay away from church facilities. The price of staying there is endless attempts to convert the homeless.
 
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rgp said:
Can't or choose not to ? If they truly cannot, then they very likely need to be institutionalized/housed on a permanent basis. {Re-open the asylums}
If they choose not to ? I really don't care how they get by.

I'll shorten a long story .... two sisters that I know well [one is now deceased] made it their mission to "help" two local homeless men. Even providing apartments, and jobs. Within six months [or less] both men were back living on the river bank .... what they preferred.

We cannot protect someone from themselves.
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I subscribe to online news site "Patch" to stay up-to-date with one area.
This is a recent news story:
https://patch.com/new-york/peekskil...akingnews&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=alert

Yet, locally, I've been told nobody can 'make' individuals go to rehab, get help for mental health issues, etc., it's all about "self-determination'...
 
Why involve the churches? In the US we have about 550,000 folks who are considered homeless, and over a 120,000,000 households. Do the math. Just open up your own home to one homeless person or homeless family every night. All you need is one extra bedroom, or even just a couch. That's not asking a lot is it?

I'm sure this approach would also work in the UK.
 
Buckeye said:
Why involve the churches? In the US we have about 550,000 folks who are considered homeless, and over a 120,000,000 households. Do the math. Just open up your own home to one homeless person or homeless family every night. All you need is one extra bedroom, or even just a couch. That's not asking a lot is it?

I'm sure this approach would also work in the UK.
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One local person did that. Gave a homeless couple a place to stay. They wrecked her house, stole stuff, etc.
And with one idiotic law, if you let someone stay in your home and they don't want to leave, you'd need to go through a regular full eviction process to get rid of them.

As for me, I had homeless individuals basically camping out in my living room a couple of times. Let them in = they will not leave.

It's not a good idea.
 
JaniceM said:
One local person did that. Gave a homeless couple a place to stay. They wrecked her house, stole stuff, etc.
And with one idiotic law, if you let someone stay in your home and they don't want to leave, you'd need to go through a regular full eviction process to get rid of them.

As for me, I had homeless individuals basically camping out in my living room a couple of times. Let them in = they will not leave.

It's not a good idea.
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Really? I can't imagine it would be a problem. After all, they're just looking for a place to rest their weary bodies. Who doesn't want a good night's sleep? Would the churches have the same issues?
 
JaniceM said:
re: where you said 'choose to stay addicted,' it's not always a matter of 'choice.' However, with this housing program (backfiring every whichway, all around the U.S.), individuals are provided with their own personal apartments yet NEVER required to go into rehab or do anything else.

On one side of the issue, I've known numerous individuals who had this arrangement for more than two years.. and in worse shape than when they moved in.
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I already mentioned the 'mentally ill', I agree they can become addicted, and it is not a matter of choice for them. All other addicts at the beginning, have a choice!
 
Jamala said:
That thought did occur to me at one time charry and I mentioned it to someone.
That person replied that some homeless folk are afraid of churches...I don't know why and wished I had asked the reason.
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Depends on the setup. I stayed in a Salvation Army shelter as a teenager. (I was a paying customer.) We had to attend prayers, etc. I remember one woman complaining about the people's attitudes.
 
Most of us do not own, or run, a congregation of our own to make a certified, sound decision on the matter.

Yet, I wonder if every member in this forum owned a church, and all our little painted churches lined duck-like in a row; how many members might feed, blanket, the homeless “every night” if mercy so dictated?

“Compassion involves feeling another person's pain and wanting to help relieve their suffering. The word compassion itself derives from Latin and means “to suffer together…”

Yet, regardless of how heartfelt and motivated we feel; the ability to perform and sustain a prolonged act of kindness towards the multitude of homeless nightly, isn’t feasible for the mass majority; even if we might long or wish it so.

One thing I oppose; I think it’s unfair to single out, thwarting sole obligation upon spiritual places of worship, when the responsibility of the displaced belongs to [all] people.

The best solution always starts with ourselves. Do as frequent as we can.

I cannot afford to bring a stranger into my home at night, yet I give and donate food.
 
Buckeye said:
Really? I can't imagine it would be a problem. After all, they're just looking for a place to rest their weary bodies. Who doesn't want a good night's sleep? Would the churches have the same issues?
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I don't know you, so I don't know if your post is serious, but from many years experience locally that's NOT what they want.. if that was the goal, they could have that and much more at shelters.
I've lost track, but there are quite a few shelters in this area. Individuals can have 'a good night's sleep,' hot meals, access to medical care, free clothing, etc. Individuals can do laundry, take showers, get bus tokens, and there are social workers for anybody who wants to get help with problems.

The catch is shelters have RULES- individuals cannot drink alcohol or use drugs in the shelters (although they don't need to be clean/sober in order to go in). And that's also the reason many choose to live in homeless camps- while they can continue to use shelter services they don't need to live there under those rules.

As for churches- I have no idea.
 
Timewise 60+ said:
The 'easy' answers already asked have been tried over the years, many times. As others have indicated, these simple ideas of just offering a warm place to sleep doesn't work. The problem is so much more complicated than that. You have many different reasons people are in these conditions. Some are mentally ill and cannot think clearly about their situation. We don't have state run asylum's anymore where these people were cared for, they (our government) just turned them out on the street with no fallback plan. Granted the asylums did not treat the people as most people thought they should, but they did the best they could with the funding they had. I toured one of these places in Colorado many years ago, it was hard to see, but they all had beds, food, clean clothes and showers. Not all took advantage of what was available but was better than living under the freeway in cardboard boxes and they had no access to illegal drugs or alcohol.

I also spent time at a homeless shelter in Denver, Colorado working with the Manager. Anyone could check in, if they had room available, but the second night was not offered unless they stayed 'sober' no drugs or alcohol in their system. When they checked in every day, they were checked. Many only had one night with them. A few made it a few nights, very few made it a month. They did rehab people who really wanted to get back to a normal life, but most did not really have the resolve to stay the course. My conclusion was that most of the people who are homeless are addicted to drugs/ alcohol. They choose to stay addicted, as many programs to help them with addiction and provide food, shelter, and in time a job, are available in all big cities. They just have given up and their addition is all they have left! Sad but true! Not that we should not continue to offer help, as some will wake up and decide to crawl out of the gutter, but sadly many will die before they awaken!
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We don’t choose to be addicted
I can assure you !!!
 
Our church (and the other churches I have been a member of) have several organizations and committees that help the needy and the homeless. Every so many days, they cook meals and take them to shelters. Other times, we do food drives. We have donated money to poor families or paid their electricity bills. We have done other things as well. But to shelter the homeless at our church is another story. Like others have said here, it is too complicated. Those who need shelter probably have mental illness or are on drugs. They may not have taken a shower for days. Where would they sleep, on the pews? It is difficult to "organize" a solution. You can't just leave the doors open and let anyone walk in. Someone will have to guard them, especially if they want to steal or trash things. We have had a few thefts at our church. When the doors are open, anyone can walk in.
The root of the problem does not get solved by providing beds in a church. The root of the problem is our society that has allowed this to happen.
 
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