Electric Vehicles

I've read that if you overload them w/people, that also puts a drain on the battery.
How many do they fit..4 or 5.

Also, when in freezing temps , they were unable to open the doors.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
How much does a "home charging station " cost? I know it depends on milage, but what is the cost of the added electricity use. Do these suck up the electrons?
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There are a number of home building corporations in the greater Toronto area, who are offering built in chargers in the garage of new homes, for the cost of $ 2500.00 Canadian as a upgrade when you buy the house. If you have a roof top solar panel array, the charger could be run for free. Some new condominium towers also offer them in your reserved parking space, and my hospital has them in the under ground garage, for free use when you visit the Women's College Hospital. A number of Toronto area shopping malls have installed charging points in their parking lots, as have the GO Transit commuter train stations. One of the more interesting charging stations at the Cloverdale Mall is powered by both solar and wind power, with a 15 foot high tower with a solar array and a windmill on it, running 3 charging stations for mall customers. JImB.
 
Here's a thought WRT public policy trying to steer consumers toward electric cars--and whether it's a fad.

There's a kind of minor precedent, where there was a policy push to get people to change former practices: Carter's attempt to covert the US to the metric system. Do you remember that for a while even gas pumps here in the US had metric equivalents?

Not saying that the Ecar thing is the same as regards amount of incentive/cost of convincing the public, but can see where it yet *may* fall by the wayside.

I'll say that in my opinion, when one only considers the suitability of a power source for a particular job, electric motors for personal autos beat IC engines. But there are very large problems still to solve, and just as one would expect from a nanny state, we're not really being made aware of these problems, only that we MUST do it. Like CA with their ban on IC new car sales after a certain date, and in Oregon, after 2035.

So after having a hybrid for three years and thinking about the pros/cons, my current personal position for electrified driving is:

In all cases, you must install a 240V level 2 40 amp charger at your home. This is about 4K (installed) or less in most urban circumstances.

1) if you want only one car in your family, it should be a plug-in hybrid. This would cover around town and short commutes as all EV and would support a long road trip as IC. Toyota RAV4 Prime is an example.
2) If you want 2 cars, one could be a low-end, relatively short range all electric, like a Nissan Leaf. This does all around town stuff and maybe even moderate commutes. The other car could be an IC of your choice, permitting conventional long road trips.

As always, these are only my opinions.
 
dobielvr said:
I've read that if you overload them w/people, that also puts a drain on the battery.
How many do they fit..4 or 5.

Also, when in freezing temps , they were unable to open the doors.
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The door story is only half true. The time to open the doors will take a bit longer at minus 10C than at plus 10C . The passenger load of a typical passenger vehicle ( gas or diesel or electric ) is calculated at 175 lbs. Five people would be around 875 lbs, hardly a worry. The doors are not electrically powered, they open just like the doors on your car do, using the muscles in your arm. JimB.
 
jimintoronto said:
The door story is only half true. The time to open the doors will take a bit longer at minus 10C than at plus 10C . The passenger load of a typical passenger vehicle ( gas or diesel or electric ) is calculated at 175 lbs. Five people would be around 875 lbs, hardly a worry. The doors are not electrically powered, they open just like the doors on your car do, using the muscles in your arm. JimB.
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Thank you jim. I thought the doors had something to do w/the batteries freezing up in those cold conditions that would keep them from opening.
 
I will have one someday. Waiting for improvement in distance. We have some solar on the phoenix area house….but no battery storage. When we have both electric a go. As a note…talking to a taxi driver in los angeles about his tesla….he LOVED it. Had put about 80000 miles in one year on it. Said it was by far the best car he had ever had.
 
dobielvr said:
Thank you jim. I thought the doors had something to do w/the batteries freezing up in those cold conditions that would keep them from opening.
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You are welcome. As someone who has lived in Canada all of my life I know that the colder it gets, the less effective 12 volt batteries become, BUT there are many ways to deal with that problem, starting with battery heating blankets that wrap around the battery, and are powered by a electric extension cord from the house, with a digital timer set to come on 3 hours before you need to drive that car. The other common method is an engine block heater, also run off a house power cord. All of that applies to conventional cars/ trucks with gasoline or diesel engines. An all electric vehicle is a different trout, altogether. That type of vehicle is going to loose a certain amount of battery power as the air temp gets colder. In an emergency car accident the all electric car MAY have a problem with the door locks failing to release, requiring rescue people to know where and how to access the INTERIOR release mechanical devices, at the front or the rear of the passenger compartment. MOST fire departments have received illustrated information hand outs on how to do the door release procedures by now. JImB.
 
Myrtle said:
No, I would not consider buying an EV.

IMO, the push to electric vehicles is all about money and political power. I cannot say more without getting into a political discussion so that’s all, folks. 🤫
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Given what you wrote, should I assume you don't own any Tesla stock ? I do. JImB.
 
Rick and I leased a Chevy Volt . Our last car before he died. He had always wanted an electric. It had a 200 or so mile range. He drove it to work, and his boss let him put it on charge there. My car was gas. It was OK..more his thing than mine. Took longer to charge in cold weather. For us old retired folks, I guess it was OK. But the infrastructure was not caught up yet. Not a lot of charging stations Yet. Not sure if there still are.
The lease ran up a few months after he died, so I traded it in fast. At least he got what he wanted, but I would not get another.
 
Shouldn't the makers of the electric vehicles be involved
in the siting and construction of the charging sites, the
example that I started with, blocked a service station for
some time, they were parked in the entry road.

There should be separate fast charge sites, to begin with,
in case something similar happens in the future, or maybe
just more service areas with more facilities, the problem is
that they can't go anywhere without a charge, so the car
park gets blocked.

Mike.
 
From a Globe & Mail article in spring of 2022, there are some options for an offsite quick charge. These really wouldn’t be much of an option for some of the mountainous roads in BC.

Blink, a U.S. company, sells a US$6,500 gasoline-powered emergency charger that can deliver 0.8 to 1.6 km a minute.
Depending on the BEV, the 350-pound generator would take anywhere from 25 to 50 minutes to deliver 40 km of range, the company said in an email. Again, it uses gasoline, so it’s not zero-emissions.
Another U.S. company, SparkCharge, brings batteries to your location to charge your EV, but the service isn’t available in Canada.
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It’s a start. Things will improve as technology develops.

It’s not advanced enough for us yet, so we won’t be buying an EV.
 
Sawfish said:
Here's a thought WRT public policy trying to steer consumers toward electric cars--and whether it's a fad.

There's a kind of minor precedent, where there was a policy push to get people to change former practices: Carter's attempt to covert the US to the metric system. Do you remember that for a while even gas pumps here in the US had metric equivalents?

Not saying that the Ecar thing is the same as regards amount of incentive/cost of convincing the public, but can see where it yet *may* fall by the wayside.

I'll say that in my opinion, when one only considers the suitability of a power source for a particular job, electric motors for personal autos beat IC engines. But there are very large problems still to solve, and just as one would expect from a nanny state, we're not really being made aware of these problems, only that we MUST do it. Like CA with their ban on IC new car sales after a certain date, and in Oregon, after 2035.

So after having a hybrid for three years and thinking about the pros/cons, my current personal position for electrified driving is:

In all cases, you must install a 240V level 2 40 amp charger at your home. This is about 4K (installed) or less in most urban circumstances.

1) if you want only one car in your family, it should be a plug-in hybrid. This would cover around town and short commutes as all EV and would support a long road trip as IC. Toyota RAV4 Prime is an example.
2) If you want 2 cars, one could be a low-end, relatively short range all electric, like a Nissan Leaf. This does all around town stuff and maybe even moderate commutes. The other car could be an IC of your choice, permitting conventional long road trips.

As always, these are only my opinions.
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EV chargers are available for under $200. With free shipping! :)
https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Level-EV-Charger-Adjustable/dp/B09YTY5DDT/ref=asc_df_B09YTY5DDT/
 
Sawfish said:
They are, but can you install them yourself? Win you need a permit/inspection?
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You plug it in the wall outlet. They plug into the same type of outlet as your oven, which may or may not be available in your garage, so you may need an electrician to install one for those who aren't electrically inclined. That could be pricy. Electricians don't come cheap.
 
SeniorBen said:
You plug it in the wall outlet. They plug into the same type of outlet as your oven, which may or may not be available in your garage, so you may need an electrician to install one for those who aren't electrically inclined. That could be pricy. Electricians don't come cheap.
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That's for sure.

Yep, if there was such a thing on the outside of my house or in my garage, I'd buy one as you suggest.

You know, to me, it looks like a major assumption on EV successfully replacing IC cars is that most/much of the recharges will happen at home, and secondarily at work. Most *WILL NOT* be at waystation changing stations that would correspond to gas stations. This would mostly happen on long road trips.

What do you think?
 
Personally, I think battery swap stations are more practical than sitting at a charge station for an hour or more. Here is a Chinese EV battery swap station.
 
SeniorBen said:
Personally, I think battery swap stations are more practical than sitting at a charge station for an hour or more. Here is a Chinese EV battery swap station.
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Yes, this could work.

So, lessee...you swap the capital outlay from multiple individually accessible charging stations to a significant number of batteries that will be charged, ready-to-go when a customer comes in? The surplus batteries would be a sort of "buffer" to smooth the process flow.

An discharged battery would go into a "back room" charger of some kind, optimized for multiple simultaneous batteries. A recharged battery would come out of "storage" and bolted in at a "changing station" (rack?) and the customer would drive away.

So if we assume that the discharged battery can be recharged and undergo diagnostics in the "back room" in about 30 min, we need enough surplus batteries to cover the expected number of customers in any given 30 min period, plus fudge factor.

What do you think?
 
Mike said:
Have you thought about getting one?

I saw an article in the newspaper a few days ago about going
on a long trip in one, not recommended at this time of the
year, especially when the trains are on strike, the item wrote
about a 12 hr wait at a service station on the M6 in Cumberland,
the area where they were stuck, is a really bleak place in the
middle of not very much, the item showed a line of Tesla Cars
queueing on the actual motorway to gain access to the services,
I can't find the picture on the net, unfortunately.

They were all heading for Scotland and had reached the North
of England, about 300 miles from London, assuming that was
their starting point, so fully laden car maybe with children on
board, the heater running full blast to keep warm, all will soon
deplete the battery, then you have to wait for a charger, all not
really good adverts for the vehicles.
45 second video of Tesla Queue.

Here is a newspaper article about the problems facing electric
vehicles in the UK, they will also be found in any country that
allows them to be imported or built.

We are all used to filling up with Petrol or diesel, which only
takes about 5 minutes, the quickest charge I believe takes at
least half an hour.

Food for thought.

Mike.
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Yes, its' true. When I was up in The Yukon last summer I saw this lady sitting by the charger. At that time, I said that I can fill my car up in less than 5 minutes and be long gone. This lady with her EV car just sat and sat while the charger worked.

I know that young people think that EV vehicles will save this planet. It wouldn't. EV might help but the main problem is over population, pollution and housing.
 
Sawfish said:
That's for sure.

Yep, if there was such a thing on the outside of my house or in my garage, I'd buy one as you suggest.

You know, to me, it looks like a major assumption on EV successfully replacing IC cars is that most/much of the recharges will happen at home, and secondarily at work. Most *WILL NOT* be at waystation changing stations that would correspond to gas stations. This would mostly happen on long road trips.

What do you think?
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Sure, for daily commutes, charging at home or at work would be feasible. But not for longer trips.

IMO, battery swap stations are the answer. But unlike in the video I posted above from what's happening in China, I think eventually EVs will have multiple battery packs that can be swapped. The size of the vehicle will determine the number of battery packs.

The average EV battery today weighs about 1,000lbs, which is a bit unwieldy. But if there were four at 250lbs each, a station attendant could handle that fairly easily with some kind of specially designed cart or lift depending on the vehicle design.
 
Packerjohn said:
I know that young people think that EV vehicles will save this planet. It wouldn't. EV might help but the main problem is over population, pollution and housing.
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Yes! Yes!

Thinking long and hard and I always get back to that (major reduction in population required to achieve a happy, green planet), no matter how distasteful it is.

And I guarantee you a dollar to a dime that we'll get blamed for that, too... ;^)
 
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