Bemused by the call for "Medicare for All"

I've had some extended and frustrating exchanges on various forums with younger people currently in the workforce who call energetically for Medicare for All.

So, understanding enough about how the systems works to see that it's a cross between pre-paid insurance and a benevolent Ponzi scheme (and I mean no negative connotations by using the term--I honestly can't think of a compact term that carries the understanding of what "Ponzi scheme" means) I've tried to point out how they, at age 35, for example, could not expect the same system to work if they are recipients.

They either can't, or don't want to, consider what I'm saying.

Typically, they think that a) current Medicare recipients pay no on-going premiums; and b) that everything is covered.

Also typically, when I told them that I've paid a payroll tax without receiving any immediate benefits for as long as there has been a Medicare program, and that the act of paying into the system for decades, while receiving no direct benefits is an implied promise to some level of healthcare subsidy when I reached the age for Medicare, they seemed not to grasp the idea--which is the same idea as for SS.

When I also told them that I have to pay a premium ranging from ~170 per month, per person on Medicare, plus the monthly premium for an advantage plan (which provides much of the broad-based coverage that they assume I get for no charge, at all), and that depending on MAGI (gross income, essentially), I have paid up to 900+ per mo for the both of us, plus the advantage premium, they simply won't believe me. They think I'm lying to them to preserve what they think is a freebie for me, that they don't get.

Have you ever had this discussion re Medicare for All? What has been your experience.
 

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i've had geico thrown into my lap by way of gsa (government contracts) and never used it for decades.

recently received a letter from the irs... opened it out of curiosity only to find an offer for insurance. if i'm ill, i wouldn't seek their assistance. i'm not incapable of surgery on myself and i know a
others who can deal with serious emergencies. besides, i do my own dental too!
 
i've had geico thrown into my lap by way of gsa (government contracts) and never used it for decades.

recently received a letter from the irs... opened it out of curiosity only to find an offer for insurance. if i'm ill, i wouldn't seek their assistance. i'm not incapable of surgery on myself and i know a
others who can deal with emergencies. i do my own dental too!
I didn't notice a smiley...
 

If you do some research, you quickly find that we pay twice as much for healthcare in the US than most other nations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

However in terms of overall quality of care, the US ranks in the mid-30's, compared to other nations.
https://www.numbeo.com/health-care/rankings_by_country.jsp

Most other nations have some form of Universal Healthcare, and they pay far less by Not having to support all the "corporate" plans that we are saddled with.....and they get better overall care.

We used to have a "Medical Profession"....but that has been replaced by a "Health Care Industry"....and the Primary purpose of Any industry is to Make Money.
 
If you do some research, you quickly find that we pay twice as much for healthcare in the US than most other nations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

However in terms of overall quality of care, the US ranks in the mid-30's, compared to other nations.
https://www.numbeo.com/health-care/rankings_by_country.jsp

Most other nations have some form of Universal Healthcare, and they pay far less by Not having to support all the "corporate" plans that we are saddled with.....and they get better overall care.

We used to have a "Medical Profession"....but that has been replaced by a "Health Care Industry"....and the Primary purpose of Any industry is to Make Money.
Right, but what do you think "Medicare for All" means, and how might we implement it?

I mean, it clearly won't be Medicare as we know it, so they must mean a national healthcare system, but what would it be? Single payer? Nationalization of all healthcare facilities? Something that has a chance of happening would be a good discussion.

Or what?
 
"Have you ever had this discussion re Medicare for All?"

Not exactly in the same words you used.

I have 2 grandkids over 25 who are and stuck in jobs that don't pay well, aren't very challenging or personally satisfying, and don't offer a reasonable retirement plan. They also believe the US needs national healthcare.

Of my 3 other adult grandkids, the 19yr-old is in college, the 26yr-old owns her own business (with her hubby), and the other loves his job and decided to make it his career. None of them talk about what their country can do for them.
 
Right, but what do you think "Medicare for All" means, and how might we implement it?

I mean, it clearly won't be Medicare as we know it, so they must mean a national healthcare system, but what would it be? Single payer? Nationalization of all healthcare facilities? Something that has a chance of happening would be a good discussion.

Or what?
A national healthcare system is already being gradually imposed on us. It's currently called "Managed Care," but I'm sure it will get a few name-changes along the way. None of which will be National Healthcare....not for about a decade, anyway.
 
A national healthcare system is already being gradually imposed on us. It's currently called "Managed Care," but I'm sure it will get a few name-changes along the way. None of which will be National Healthcare....not for about a decade, anyway.
Good discussion, thanks.

Do you see "Managed Care" as being HMO-like? I've got Kaiser for my Advantage plan, and had it briefly for a while back about 20 years ago. All-in-all, I'm satisfied.

10 years is probably beyond my window of concern.

It's great how liberating old age can be, huh? ;)
 
Good discussion, thanks.

Do you see "Managed Care" as being HMO-like? I've got Kaiser for my Advantage plan, and had it briefly for a while back about 20 years ago. All-in-all, I'm satisfied.

10 years is probably beyond my window of concern.

It's great how liberating old age can be, huh? ;)
Yeah, that 10 years is intentional - a window of opportunity for change.

Kaiser is a model for Managed Care. HMO is the failed model.

Think back to the Free Clinic of the late 60s and early 70s, and especially the following 20 years when states took control of them and changed the name to Family Clinic. If you've ever been to one of those, then you know the horror that a national healthcare system will be.
 
Yeah, that 10 years is intentional - a window of opportunity for change.

Kaiser is a model for Managed Care. HMO is the failed model.

Think back to the Free Clinic of the late 60s and early 70s, and especially the following 20 years when states took control of them and changed the name to Family Clinic. If you've ever been to one of those, then you know the horror that a national healthcare system will be.
I remember reading about the SF Free Clinic (I think) but know nothing of it.

I lived in Marin from 65-68. I heard/read about this stuff.
 
I use the healthcare system a lot, unfortunately. I've never waited more than a month for only two of them (docs); everyone else I see right away. For tests, and I take many, no waiting at all. My last 2 hospitalizations saw me in private rooms with NYC views, and a 75 inch TV! Those things really help toward recovery they really do!
 
I remember reading about the SF Free Clinic (I think) but know nothing of it.

I lived in Marin from 65-68. I heard/read about this stuff.
imo, in 10 years you'll be better off dreaming of being a restaurant server than a doctor and everyone's going to wish they hadn't been so dismissive of the old wives tales and home remedies, because going to the national clinic, or whatever they'll call it, will be a nightmare.
 
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I use the healthcare system a lot, unfortunately. I've never waited more than a month for only two of them (docs); everyone else I see right away. For tests, and I take many, no waiting at all. My last 2 hospitalizations saw me in private rooms with NYC views, and a 75 inch TV! Those things really help toward recovery they really do!
I honestly believe it's all gonna go downhill very soon.
 
So am I so what, me worry?
In any case, worrying would be a waste of time anyway. This thing is going to happen. Doesn't matter who doesn't like it.

But the sad thing is, it will result in the US sliding further down in ratings for medical discovery and advancement. I mean, so be it if someplace like Malaysia rushes out ahead, but I'm competitive. I get all sulky over placing 2nd.
 
Medicare for All would not be a "Ponzi scheme". It would be a replacement for our current private insurance mess. People of all ages would benefit anytime they used the healthcare system.
But that's no what I said. I said Medicare, as it is now, and as SS is, have elements of a Ponzi financing mechanism.

So in you opinion, how would what people are calling Medicare for All work? Who pays and thru what mechanisms and when?

Clearly, it could not be anything like current Medicare.
 
Right, but what do you think "Medicare for All" means, and how might we implement it?

I mean, it clearly won't be Medicare as we know it, so they must mean a national healthcare system, but what would it be? Single payer? Nationalization of all healthcare facilities? Something that has a chance of happening would be a good discussion.

Or what?
I hope I'm not being redundant here. Other posters may have covered this query.

Australia has a universal health care system that is called Medicare. It is funded by a levy that is paid on top of the usual income tax to the federal government. (Note, there is no such thing as state income tax in Australia. That was done away with during WW II.)

Medicare allows anyone, regardless of income, to treatment in public hospitals and to free medical treatment at any clinic using a system of direct bulk billing the government.

Private health care funds still exist. Hubby and I pay into a not-for-profit fund called Teachers Health at the top rate, which allows me to receive private hospital stay for no additional cost and a rebate on the surgeon's fees. I also get rebates on dental cost and optometry/spectacles. Medicare does not cover dentistry or optometry.

Aussies also receive the benefit of a universal pharmaceutical benefit scheme. It limits the cost of approved prescription drugs. In a nutshell:

The Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS) lets Australians use lots of prescribed medicines without paying full price. The PBS is part of the Australian Government’s National Medicines Policy. The National Medicines Policy aims to balance the need for medicines with good health results and economic limits.

The PBS aims to offer safe, affordable medicines to all Australians.
All drugs on the PBS are charged to the customer at the same price. There are no prohibitively expensive scripts under this scheme. Pensioners and low income earners, including adult students pay less per script than other people. The charge to the customer is a co-payment. The government pays the remainder.

Also, for the sake of the chronically ill and families, there is a cap, knowns as the 'safety net' on how much you pay in one year. When you reach that cap, there are no more co-payments for the rest of the year. Hubby and I reach the safety net every year about August. The cost of both lots of prescriptions is combined when calculating the safety net. The same is true for non pensioner households.
 
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Medicare for All?
On the face of it sounds good. However I am sure the devil is in the details.

A big one would be paying for it. Maybe somehow allowing people to buy in at younger ages. The amount contributed before they do that could be considered. However for it to work people would have to pay what it costs. Not sure if that would be any cheaper or better than private insurance.

No real expertise here, just unfounded opinions. So far I have liked Medicare...
 
But that's no what I said. I said Medicare, as it is now, and as SS is, have elements of a Ponzi financing mechanism.

So in you opinion, how would what people are calling Medicare for All work? Who pays and thru what mechanisms and when?

Clearly, it could not be anything like current Medicare.
See @Warrigal's response.
 
Overseas experience: UK: Meltdown of socialiste NHS, months or years to wait for surgery or Dr
The UK wealthy get a private Dr.
France: endless Health workers strikes.
Commie cuba.. Terrible health care except for CCCP party members
Commie China: Terrible health care except for CCCP party members.
Hide Covid origins, gene analysis, for WHO and world, refus non China vaccines, Infected in hospitals overloaded 10X dyeing in the corridors

after BHO destroyed the US medical system with "Ocare" and raised taxes 4.....20%?
The admin wants universal single payer, and envies these countries as the future (socialist) model for USA?
j
 
I hope I'm not being redundant here. Other posters may have covered this query.

Australia has a universal health care system that is called Medicare. It is funded by a levy that is paid on top of the usual income tax to the federal government. (Note, there is no such thing as state income tax in Australia. That was done away with during WW II).

Medicare allows anyone, regardless of income, to treatment in public hospitals and to free medical treatment at any clinic that using a system of direct bulk billing the government.

Private health care funds still exist. Hubby and I pay into a not-for-profit fund called Teachers Health at the top rate, which allows me to receive private hospital stay for no additional cost and a rebate on the surgeon's fees. I also get rebates on dental cost and optometry/spectacles. Medicare does not cover dentistry or optometry.

Aussies also the benefit of a universal pharmaceutical benefit scheme. It limits the cost of approved prescription drugs. In a nutshell:


All drugs on the PBS are charged to the customer at the same price. There are no prohibitively expensive scripts under this scheme. Pensioners and low income earners, including adult students pay less per script than other people. The charge to the customer is a co-payment. The government pays the remainder.

Also, for the sake of the chronically ill and families, there is a cap, knowns as the 'safety net' on how much you pay in one year. When you reach that cap, there are no more co-payments for the rest of the year. Hubby and I reach the safety net every year about August. The cost of both lots of prescriptions is combined when calculating the safety net. The same is true for non pensioner households.
Can you give us a rough idea of how much per cent both the income tax is (brackets?) and what the levy above that might be?

Also, do all Aus Medicare providers work directly for the government, as direct employees, or are they privage employees reimbursed a a certain rate by the government?
 
Can you give us a rough idea of how much per cent both the income tax is (brackets?) and what the levy above that might be?

Also, do all Aus Medicare providers work directly for the government, as direct employees, or are they privage employees reimbursed a a certain rate by the government?
This is the calculator but in general the levy is 1.5% to 2% of taxable income. Pensioners and low income people do not pay the levy at all.

Medicare levy calculator | Australian Taxation Office

Medicare levy calculator​

This calculator helps you estimate your Medicare levy. It includes any reductions or exemptions you are allowed.

It can be used for the 2013–14 to 2021–22 income years.

On this page

Before you use this calculator​

For most taxpayers the Medicare levy is 2% of their taxable income.

The Medicare levy surcharge (MLS) is a separate levy from Medicare levy. It applies to taxpayers on a higher income who don’t have private health cover. The MLS is designed to encourage these taxpayers to take out private patient hospital cover and use the private hospital system.

The exact amount of your Medicare levy can only be calculated upon lodgment of your income tax return.

If you have to pay the Medicare levy, you may have to pay the Medicare levy surcharge (MLS).

We will work out if you have to pay the MLS based on the information you provide in your tax return. If applicable, we will include MLS with your Medicare levy. This will show as one amount on your notice of assessment as Medicare levy and surcharge.

The calculated results are based on the information you provide at the time of calculation. You should use these results as an estimate and for guidance purposes only.

The medicare levy surcharge is applied to people who can afford private health insurance but choose not to. We are all expected to make some provision for our own health costs if we can afford it rather than expect the government to pay for everything and everyone. It is the reason why private health funds have not been driven out of business. Like most other things in Australia, our health care system is a mix of private enterprise and government. Capitalism and socialism combined.
 
This is the calculator but in general the levy is 1.5% to 2% of taxable income. Pensioners and low income people do not pay the levy at all.

Medicare levy calculator | Australian Taxation Office



The medicare levy surcharge is applied to people who can afford private health insurance but choose not to. We are all expected to make some provision for our own health costs if we can afford it rather than expect the government to pay for everything and everyone. It is the reason why private health funds have not been driven out of business. Like most other things in Australia, our health care system is a mix of private enterprise and government. Capitalism and socialism combined.
Thanks!
 


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