What happens when one wants a divorce and the other doesn't?

Divorce or separation has never surfaced on the horizon of the relationship that my wife and I have shared, for almost fifty-five years. But I must share this anecdote with you. Last Monday, driving along a narrow road, I managed to, or possibly the driver of the oncoming vehicle managed to, graze one another.

The lady driver of the other car was one of those, in your face, aggressive, "You hit my car!" You will face the death penalty on the gallows at Tyburn, (Tyburn's 'tree' a wooden gallows where criminals were hanged to death. The site, operational for over 650 years, became renowned as the principal location for public executions in London) where was I? Oh yes, if you don't pay up, NOW!

It really was a case of six of one, half a dozen of the other, she may actually have hit me, but as her side of the road had the right of way, my challenge would have been an extremely expensive challenge. I looked at the damage, £300, £400 tops, my insurance excess is £500, best just bite the bullet and pay up.

The damage estimate came in at £350, how close was I? I phoned the lady. Lady? Read that as one of the female gender. Lady she definitely was not! "Can we meet at the car park of my bank?" I asked. You might be forgiven for thinking that I had asked if politeness had a new definition. What grief she gave me, but thankfully she said that her husband was at home, I could arrange payment with him.

He turned out to be the most absolute charmer, oh how I warmed to him. "would you mind?" I asked him, "if I paid you in cash?" "Not at all," he replied, and then signed off the estimate as received as full and final payment. I worded it like that so that I didn't have to pick up the tab for a hire vehicle whist their damaged vehicle was being repaired. "Received in full & final payment....." She might as not try billing me with that charge, but her husband has left her rudderless.

After counting the cash, husband said to me: "How did you find my wife?" I got the drift of his question immediately, but cautious that I might have to pay for car hire whilst their car is in for reburbishment, I said simply, "Difficult!" He smiled and said: "You're not married to her."

I just smiled, but inwardly my thoughts were: "You poor bastard!"
 

Nathan said:
True, particularly after you've tried to make it work, but the spouse has no plans of joining that effort.
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That was the professionals view presented in the OP of course, and its difficult if not impossible to argue with isn't it.

The only point I'd make concerns a woman interviewed many years ago, and asked about why she had stuck with her husband. Here answer was: "Where would I have gone"?
This makes me conclude sometimes folks have to get to that point where the alternatives dont look so bright before knuckling down and making the marriage work, or finding a way to.

An aunt of my then wife gave the same answer to the question why she stuck with her marriage, though knowing her and her husband, even given he was probably egotistical and all that kind of thing, they were both far much better sticking together and raising their three boys on their farm.
 
horseless carriage said:
Divorce or separation has never surfaced on the horizon of the relationship that my wife and I have shared, for almost fifty-five years. But I must share this anecdote with you. Last Monday, driving along a narrow road, I managed to, or possibly the driver of the oncoming vehicle managed to, graze one another.

The lady driver of the other car was one of those, in your face, aggressive, "You hit my car!" You will face the death penalty on the gallows at Tyburn, (Tyburn's 'tree' a wooden gallows where criminals were hanged to death. The site, operational for over 650 years, became renowned as the principal location for public executions in London) where was I? Oh yes, if you don't pay up, NOW!

It really was a case of six of one, half a dozen of the other, she may actually have hit me, but as her side of the road had the right of way, my challenge would have been an extremely expensive challenge. I looked at the damage, £300, £400 tops, my insurance excess is £500, best just bite the bullet and pay up.

The damage estimate came in at £350, how close was I? I phoned the lady. Lady? Read that as one of the female gender. Lady she definitely was not! "Can we meet at the car park of my bank?" I asked. You might be forgiven for thinking that I had asked if politeness had a new definition. What grief she gave me, but thankfully she said that her husband was at home, I could arrange payment with him.

He turned out to be the most absolute charmer, oh how I warmed to him. "would you mind?" I asked him, "if I paid you in cash?" "Not at all," he replied, and then signed off the estimate as received as full and final payment. I worded it like that so that I didn't have to pick up the tab for a hire vehicle whist their damaged vehicle was being repaired. "Received in full & final payment....." She might as not try billing me with that charge, but her husband has left her rudderless.

After counting the cash, husband said to me: "How did you find my wife?" I got the drift of his question immediately, but cautious that I might have to pay for car hire whilst their car is in for reburbishment, I said simply, "Difficult!" He smiled and said: "You're not married to her."

I just smiled, but inwardly my thoughts were: "You poor bastard!"
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I've met some most mild mannered and intelligent men who had gotten themselves hitched to what appeared to be complete dragons too! :eek:
 
grahamg said:
I've met some most mild mannered and intelligent men who had gotten themselves hitched to what appeared to be complete dragons too! :eek:
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Deliberately, I avoided the word dragon, but you're not wrong. Actually she came across more of a harridan, but that would be ungentlemanly of me to say so................no it wouldn't, she was definitely a harridan and more besides.......
 
grahamg said:
The failure to understand those who dont move on, or wish to do so is a common problem on this forum.
Here is anther example of someone who couldn't move on. A woman I knew whose fiancé was killed in WWII. However, as far as I know, no one thought it their business to try to tell her she should move on, and put behind her this obviously fairly common wartime experience by finding a new partner.
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Can I just add in relation to the woman whose was killed in WWII, and she remained single thereafter, she had a successful life, managing a large herd of Guernsey dairy cattle, she had many friend, and was a stalwart of her community, so it didn't impede her in life in other ways did it.
 
I know you are going to pour cold water on this too…however…
A man does not leave a woman he loves (as far as I am aware). Perhaps he never loved her. Surely a woman can know this . Why would she hang on for
dear life? Let him go!

A woman may leave a man because she got a better deal elsewhere and if she does not love the man she is with, let her go too.

It is only sad when children are involved, so arrangements must be made since I believe for a child to grow up in a house where parents do not love each other is tragic. I really think before a couple get married and if they plan to have children, legal documents should be drawn up as to how their children are to fare if they divorce.

No need to reply Graham…this is just my general thoughts for other readers, not aimed at you directly :)
 
I cannot imagine staying in a marriage where the husband did not want me. I cannot imagine "trying to make it work". Why would I do that to myself?

And yes, I've been in a lousy marriage. And I've been in a great one (now 40 years together) where living together is just plain easy.
 
Devi said:
I cannot imagine staying in a marriage where the husband did not want me. I cannot imagine "trying to make it work". Why would I do that to myself?
And yes, I've been in a lousy marriage. And I've been in a great one (now 40 years together) where living together is just plain easy.
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Some great men I've read about said their wives had affairs for many years, but came back to loving them in the end, (that takes some tolerance, to wait for a partner to want to come back, but some say they did this, right or wrong).
I do agree though some marriages certainly are not worth saving, (knowing which is which is beyond me however! :) ).
 
The OP was interesting when it mentioned that:

"To the spouse who wants out, working on the relationship is roughly equivalent to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic."

There came a time when we both realized that the relationship was exhausted, irretrievable. You could intuitively feel it; it was a point of no return.

Then, later, there were certain jobs in which I also got that same feeling and it came as a sort of shock that it was virtually identical to the way I felt prior to divorce from my first wife. Things had happened from which there was no return.

Weird.
 
jimintoronto said:
I recently saw a really nice BMW convertible down by Lake Ontario..The plate read WAS HIS. I think that sums it up nicely.

BTW Ontario is a no fault divorce Province, so no need to prove "infidelity " or anything, An equal split of the assets bought during the marriage, and in some cases, depending on the income of the 2 partners, one of them may wind up paying spousal support to the other one. That was the case in my Wife's first marriage because her husband declared bankruptcy due to his failed UPS store operation. She had no financial involvement in his business, but she was ordered to pay him $ 2000.00 a month for a year by the court to support him. JimB.
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I often read about a sort of vindictive attitude for one or both partners, but I never felt this, and I doubt my first wife did after we divorced, either.

No kids. We had been married, or at least living together, for a total of about 15 years.

We have never spoken or communicated since that time. It did not seem to make sense to do so.
 
grahamg said:
Your "not serious point" raises issues such as though divorce rates have gone from 5% to roughly 50% in my lifetime, and yet unless I'm wrong, the numbers resorting to extreme measures you describe hasn't increased tenfold, so is this a success story would you say?
Perhaps the US manager contemplating the divorce of two out of three of his daughters was being perfectly practical, and I suppose our children being brought up to consider divorce as natural as staying together is quite reasonable, (much as I disagree with it).
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My personal view on marriage is that it shouldn't even be a legal contract, and it disgusts me that it's become so ritualistic and formal. That aside, I do wish civilized societies would take the commitment seriously, especially if they plan to make a family. Society in general all over the world has become selfish and narcissistic, and it seems like most parents don't think of kids as people.

Ok, maybe not most but I'll say half, because at least half of the parents I know personally act like their children are dolls with cotton stuffing where the brain goes; like the shit that happens in their little lives doesn't actually effect them, or if it does, they'll get over it. And seems to me it's been like this since the 70s, and its gotten gradually more widespread because it's actually become acceptable. It's even rewarded. You can ignore,neglect, and even abuse all 5 of your kids and get $4,000 a month for it, plus all kinds of bonuses.

And as for divorce, one motivating factor is that the winner can get a furnished house plus cash, and/or collect vengeance money every month until s/he dies, even if the loser dies first. Which is also a motive for murder. 😉
 
A friend in high school married a Catholic fellow whose 1st wife wouldn’t divorce him because of the religion. Last I heard, my friend and this guy were together and had a family. That’s been years so I don’t know what happened later on.

Can a person who doesn’t want a divorce be forced to accept one now?
 
Haven't and won't review this thread. Never married for medical issues because expected not to live long so would not be able to support a wife and family. Generally have life long strong attraction to women. Thus would have only been open to already wealthy women that I've never mixed with. It bothers me in this era there are so many broken marriages including many of acquaintances. Many because of cheating, something alien to my personal morality. Also significant numbers with social, communication, honesty, trust, behavioral issues that many couples won't recognize nor have issues with. People can be as they choose but for this person, marriage was always supposed to be permanent, monogamous. Thus the wisdom of first living long enough sans intimacy with another person to be reasonably confident a union as a team will last a lifetime through thick and thin.
 
1955 said:
The lawyers make a bunch of money but they earn it having to listen to all the crap!
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Here in the Province of Ontario, a uncontested divorce with no children or disputed assets can be registered and granted for the cost of $99. A do it your self process, and with the forms comes a "do it your self " help book, which was written by a Ontario Family Law specialist lawyer. JImB.
 
jimintoronto said:
Here in the Province of Ontario, a uncontested divorce with no children or disputed assets can be registered and granted for the cost of $99. A do it your self process, and with the forms comes a "do it your self " help book, which was written by a Ontario Family Law specialist lawyer. JImB.
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You can always tell a westernized Muslim because he hires a lawyer to say:

"I divorce thee."

three times.
 
grahamg said:
What happens when one wants a divorce and the other doesn't?
https://speakingofmarriage.com/2013/09/08/spouse-wants-divorce-and-you-dont/comment-page-1/

Quote:
"If you were to poll twenty-five couples therapists, at least twenty-four of us would say that couples with this “mixed-agenda” are the most challenging couples we see. While one has come into the therapy to design an exit strategy, the other is frantically hoping that couples therapy will pull them back from the brink.

To the spouse who wants out, working on the relationship is roughly equivalent to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. All that person can think of is “where’s the nearest lifeboat and how soon is it leaving?”

As a couples therapist it’s my job to support the goals and interests of both clients, to not side with the concerns of one at the expense of the other. I can no more advocate for one partner to stay married (or do couples therapy) when he or she is dead set against it, than advocate that the other one give up all hope for a reconciliation.

In order to be most effective, I have to, essentially, take both sides at once."

In order to do that, I’ve had to challenge most of the conventional wisdom that shapes the way both therapists and clients look at the “one out and one in” dilemma. And, I’ve had to rethink some basic theories of couples therapy that I learned in graduate school, as well.

We therapists are trained to be neutral. While I have no stake in whether a couple decides to stay married or not, neutral isn’t my best stance when dealing with divorce. I’ve learned that whatever position a client has taken, be it IN or OUT, I’m most effective when I ask them to fully explore why they’ve chosen that option.

Too often, divorce is put on the table long before a couple has exhausted all other alternatives. And sometimes people want to stay in a marriage that is ultimately unhealthy for them. Divorce will set in motion a series of painful events that will impact all involved— the couple as well as their children, family and friends. My goal is to help them make the soundest decision possible.
(Break)
To get an accurate sense of conventional advice, I did a Google search for the question, “what if my husband wants a divorce and I don’t?” Here are some key points that I gathered from marriage and legal advice websites as well as advice message boards:

You really don’t want to be with someone who isn’t in love with you.

Come on, face the facts. There’s no way to stop your spouse from leaving you.

The counsellor said that it takes two to make a marriage work and that since he doesn’t even want to try, I need to go to counselling to deal with the divorce.

If your husband says he wants a divorce, don’t say anything. Just listen. The next thing you should do is find yourself a good lawyer.

Most of this advice is designed to persuade the person who wants to fight for the marriage to, instead, get on board with the divorce.

But what if that person strongly believes that divorce isn’t the right choice? What if she thinks they have a lot to lose and she’s willing to work hard to fix things? What if he wants to slow the whole thing down, to take a few months to really assess whether divorce is the really their only option?

In cases like this, I’ll support the leaning-in client to go about the work of mending the marriage alone."
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I checked, and all states now have "no-fault divorce." So if one spouse wants it, he/she gets it.
I've heard there's some type of mediation required if there are children of the marriage, but not sure if it's widespread.

Other than that, only 3 states currently recognize Covenant marriage as valid. A divorce can only occur if there's a legitimate reason for it, such as abuse, adultery, abandonment.
 

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