Asking the wrong questions about school shootings

SeniorBen

SeniorBen

Senior Member
A student who was required to be patted down at the start of each school day allegedly shot and wounded two school administrators at East High School in Denver, authorities said.

The suspect, Austin Lyle, 17, fled the school after the Wednesday morning shooting, Denver police said. His body was discovered in nearby Park County on Wednesday night after an hours-long manhunt, officials said.

"We're going to connect with the parents of Austin this evening," Denver Public Schools Superintendent Alex Marrero told reporters during a press briefing Thursday afternoon. "I can acknowledge that we failed Austin as a district."

Lyle allegedly shot the school administrators as they patted him down in the school's office area, which officials said is away from other students and staff.

The injured faculty members were both hospitalized. Eric Sinclair remains in serious condition and Jerald Mason has since been released from the hospital, according to the hospital and school district.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-...chool-2-adults-hospitalized/story?id=98045110

Two questions reporters should be asking when the shooter isn't even old enough to purchase a gun:
How did the shooter get the gun?
What was the environment like in the shooters home? Was there abuse? Poverty? (Those are all part of the same question.)

Reporters never seem to get into the cause and effect of a shooting.
 

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There are many states where very young people hunt and carry guns. A byproduct of rural life sometimes. Poverty and abuse may or may not be a factor…but they are not a red flag as so many folks live in poverty and a large portion of people suffer abuse as children. I feel they are lucky if they ever reach a conclusion as to cause of this kind of violence.
 
Muskrat said:
There are many states where very young people hunt and carry guns.
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Yep, I was on my own with a gun from the age of about 12. Not sure it was all bad, I was taught good gun safety and handling.

As far as youth goes we trust kids to drive at about 16, and here in Utah to ride an ATV at age 8. Its more about parental supervision and training than age...
 

got this when trying to access the reference.

OOPS! PAGE UNAVAILABLE.​

This page either does not exist or is currently unavailable.

From here you can either hit the "back" button on your browser to return to the previous page, or visit the ABCNews.com Home Page. You can also search for something on our site below.

Did the article explain why he was required to be patted down everyday?
His body was found, did he commit suicide ?
How did the district fail Austin?

Your questions along with mine tend to show articles use sensational headlines with little actual info.
 
Here are a couple of things. The kid had been arrested 2 years ago on a weapons charge, kicked out of one school district and allowed to enroll in another. The pat down was a daily occurrence for him.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/cr...0230324-3lkquaqlsbaa3cadwsu7yr7wxm-story.html

Did you know that your kids might be going to high school with other kids that were arrested for gun charges? Neither did the parents at this school. They are really upset.

Another thing, the school board eliminated the safety officers from the police department a couple of years ago. So, there was no one but school administrators to do these pat downs and to protect the school. The following link is yesterday's story and has some background.

https://coloradosun.com/2023/03/22/denver-east-high-school-shooting/
 
Myrtle said:
...... The kid had been arrested 2 years ago on a weapons charge, kicked out of one school district and allowed to enroll in another. The pat down was a daily occurrence for him.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/cr...0230324-3lkquaqlsbaa3cadwsu7yr7wxm-story.html

Did you know that your kids might be going to high school with other kids that were arrested for gun charges? Neither did the parents at this school. They are really upset.
.........
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The fact they knew they should be searching him daily sums it up. This kid should've been in a special school or in a seperate building with all the other delinquents. I guess he was never declared reformed or the penalties at the time were worthless.
 
I don't know if there are any special schools for delinquents anymore, are there? Sure used to be but the system was abused by also using these schools just to segregate black from white. In NYC they were called '600' schools and were a dumping ground.
 
Pepper said:
I don't know if there are any special schools for delinquents anymore, are there? Sure used to be but the system was abused by also using these schools just to segregate black from white. In NYC they were called '600' schools and were a dumping ground.
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I don't recall hearing of any schools like that recently. They would probably be considered unfair, unkind, abusive or some such thing. There are schools in the jails where delinquents are housed.
 
Knight said:
got this when trying to access the reference.

OOPS! PAGE UNAVAILABLE.​

This page either does not exist or is currently unavailable.

From here you can either hit the "back" button on your browser to return to the previous page, or visit the ABCNews.com Home Page. You can also search for something on our site below.

Did the article explain why he was required to be patted down everyday?
His body was found, did he commit suicide ?
How did the district fail Austin?

Your questions along with mine tend to show articles use sensational headlines with little actual info.
Click to expand...
The ID got cut off. Here's the link...
https://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-...chool-2-adults-hospitalized/story?id=98045110
 
Myrtle said:
Here are a couple of things. The kid had been arrested 2 years ago on a weapons charge, kicked out of one school district and allowed to enroll in another. The pat down was a daily occurrence for him.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/cr...0230324-3lkquaqlsbaa3cadwsu7yr7wxm-story.html

Did you know that your kids might be going to high school with other kids that were arrested for gun charges? Neither did the parents at this school. They are really upset.

Another thing, the school board eliminated the safety officers from the police department a couple of years ago. So, there was no one but school administrators to do these pat downs and to protect the school. The following link is yesterday's story and has some background.

https://coloradosun.com/2023/03/22/denver-east-high-school-shooting/
Click to expand...
The Colorado Sun article touched on the subject of how kids get access to guns...

Most of the guns that find their way into schools were inappropriately stored by parents at home, or left without locks inside vehicles, Thomas told attendees. The guns are then retrieved by young people who illegally use them, he said.
 
SeniorBen said:
The Colorado Sun article touched on the subject of how kids get access to guns...

Most of the guns that find their way into schools were inappropriately stored by parents at home, or left without locks inside vehicles, Thomas told attendees. The guns are then retrieved by young people who illegally use them, he said.
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Some do, some buy them on the streets. In the first paragraph of the Daily News article the gun in the previous arrest was a ghost gun. And he had a rifle too. He was pretty young then to get access to all that.

It makes me wonder what is the family like? Are they a law abiding family or is there history there? Denver PD is being pretty quiet.

---

Law enforcement sources told the Problem Solvers, Lyle was put on an 18-month diversion program in April of 2022 after he was arrested in November of 2021 for possessing a ghost rifle, a silencer and a large capacity magazine.

Now detectives will investigate how Lyle obtained his ghost gun, if he made it himself with an at-home kit or 3D printer or if he possibly bought it from someone.

https://kdvr.com/news/local/east-hi...ith-ghost-gun-failed-prior-diversion-program/
 
Myrtle said:
Some do, some buy them on the streets. In the first paragraph of the Daily News article the gun in the previous arrest was a ghost gun. And he had a rifle too. He was pretty young then to get access to all that.

It makes me wonder what is the family like? Are they a law abiding family or is there history there? Denver PD is being pretty quiet.

---

Law enforcement sources told the Problem Solvers, Lyle was put on an 18-month diversion program in April of 2022 after he was arrested in November of 2021 for possessing a ghost rifle, a silencer and a large capacity magazine.

Now detectives will investigate how Lyle obtained his ghost gun, if he made it himself with an at-home kit or 3D printer or if he possibly bought it from someone.

https://kdvr.com/news/local/east-hi...ith-ghost-gun-failed-prior-diversion-program/
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That's what I mean about the press not following up on the environment where shooters live. Surely by now, they must know where he lived. Reporters should go interview the parents and social services people should go check to see what it's like inside the house. It's probably a filthy %$#@!hole.

I know that neighborhood and there's a lot of gang activity around there... and other types of crime. Crime is a way of life for people in those types of neighborhoods and probably the worst possible environment for children to grow up in.
 
SeniorBen said:
That's what I mean about the press not following up on the environment where shooters live. Surely by now, they must know where he lived. Reporters should go interview the parents and social services people should go check to see what it's like inside the house. It's probably a filthy %$#@!hole.

I know that neighborhood and there's a lot of gang activity around there... and other types of crime. Crime is a way of life for people in those types of neighborhoods and probably the worst possible environment for children to grow up in.
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Yes, I agree. I've looked at some sites I know that usually get information quickly but I'm not finding anything. And yes, that is a very bad high school. Are you aware that another kid was shot dead in his car in front of the school just 2 months ago? IMO that school board has a lot to answer for taking the police resource officers out of the schools too.

One curious note, one of the stories said the kid was expelled from Cherry Creek which is a very high end school district.
 
Myrtle said:
Here are a couple of things. The kid had been arrested 2 years ago on a weapons charge, kicked out of one school district and allowed to enroll in another. The pat down was a daily occurrence for him.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/cr...0230324-3lkquaqlsbaa3cadwsu7yr7wxm-story.html

Did you know that your kids might be going to high school with other kids that were arrested for gun charges? Neither did the parents at this school. They are really upset.

Another thing, the school board eliminated the safety officers from the police department a couple of years ago. So, there was no one but school administrators to do these pat downs and to protect the school. The following link is yesterday's story and has some background.

https://coloradosun.com/2023/03/22/denver-east-high-school-shooting/
Click to expand...
Reading this thread it feels like I've landed on another planet.

I was a high school teacher for 35+ years and never did I hear of any student coming to school with a gun. Guns are not unknown in Australia although rather uncommon in the cities. In regional districts they are more available but not really a problem.

What is it about the American psyche that promotes so much gun violence?
Is it something to do with popular culture and entertainment?

A couple of nights ago I watched the movie John Wick. It was truly awful.
He settled a grudge about a stolen car and a dead puppy by shooting scores of people and the movie ended with him adopting another dog. The whole movie was totally amoral.

How much worse is the stuff that is being fed to children in the form of violent video games and other entertainment popular with impressionable young boys?
 
Myrtle said:
Did you know that your kids might be going to high school with other kids that were arrested for gun charges? Neither did the parents at this school. They are really upset.
Click to expand...
Oh heck, it's not just that, but rape, armed robbery, dealing/possession and other violations "Oh but he's only 13!"....

I've heard of a 9 year old who shotgunned two foster parents. The look on his face (back when they showed perps pics) was a look of hate.
 
Other BIG question I have are...how come it took two shootings at that same school for the administrators and authorities to decide to add better security measures?! And why was that student even allowed to attend that school based on his past record?
 
OneEyedDiva said:
Other BIG question I have are...how come it took two shootings at that same school for the administrators and authorities to decide to add better security measures?! And why was that student even allowed to attend that school based on his past record?
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Diva, I found another story.

There are more than 800 students in Denver Public attending under these orders, some in middle school.

There's a video at the link too. There are a ridiculous number of ads on this story so keep scrolling to the bottom or just watch the video. It has most of the info.

Student accused of attempted murder placed in DPS school despite concerns of principal, Denver Police​

https://www.9news.com/article/news/...olice/73-a71dd1c5-8307-4ef1-b5b6-b0799d5ad992​

 
Myrtle said:
Diva, I found another story.

There are more than 800 students in Denver Public attending under these orders, some in middle school.

There's a video at the link too. There are a ridiculous number of ads on this story so keep scrolling to the bottom or just watch the video. It has most of the info.

Student accused of attempted murder placed in DPS school despite concerns of principal, Denver Police​

https://www.9news.com/article/news/...olice/73-a71dd1c5-8307-4ef1-b5b6-b0799d5ad992​

Click to expand...
They knew he was a potential problem and quite frankly didn't treat him like one. It's almost like it was a go through the motions response to say/show they were doing 'something' if something happened which it did. But they knew.

Certain types of crimes, offenses or incidents are not one offs. They are an indicator of much larger or dangerous issues.
 
Warrigal said:
Reading this thread it feels like I've landed on another planet.

I was a high school teacher for 35+ years and never did I hear of any student coming to school with a gun. Guns are not unknown in Australia although rather uncommon in the cities. In regional districts they are more available but not really a problem.

What is it about the American psyche that promotes so much gun violence?
Is it something to do with popular culture and entertainment?

A couple of nights ago I watched the movie John Wick. It was truly awful.
He settled a grudge about a stolen car and a dead puppy by shooting scores of people and the movie ended with him adopting another dog. The whole movie was totally amoral.

How much worse is the stuff that is being fed to children in the form of violent video games and other entertainment popular with impressionable young boys?
Click to expand...
The American psyche does not promote gun violence. What does "American psyche" even mean?
 
Seems to me the school district violated the rights of parents, students and the two administrators. First parents should have been told there were students bringing guns to school and what the plan was to keep the school safe. Some parents were the parents of the students targeted for searching. These students are minors and their parents should have been asked for permission to search their child. The rest of the parents should have the option to keep their kids home!
The administrators were not trained nor was it part of their job description to act as police and conduct body searches. The district created the situation that spiraled out of control. If you want a secure school you employ trained security!
 
I don't think there is a "reason" anymore for school shootings. They are now a part of the school curriculum, like the senior prom. School shootings are the product of the teen mind. Teens are hyper emotional and tend to become depressed and fatalistic. Plus, it doesn't take a genius for a teen to get his hands on a weapon.
 
If a child or young adult has already been expelled from a school or has been arrested on any kind of weapons charge, they should forfeit the right to be educated in a traditional school environment.. , and should be taught remotely only...
 
If there are no more schools for troubled youths, maybe home schooling should be considered as a viable option to keep everyone safe and give peace of mind to parents. I think if I had a child in the shooter’s school, I would be at least a bit concerned.
 
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