What if? A sort of philosophical question.

[chic]

What if reality is just what we BELIEVE it to be based on our traditions and teachings, culture and religion as opposed to it being concrete and tangible? I don't buy into the theory that the universe is just a hologram, but to some it is. This makes me think about reality and how it really is largely subjective. If you think/believe something is so that makes it so for you and becomes your reality.

What do you think about this?

 

[George1959]

If I remember right, some scientists in quantum mechanics stated that all things exist only while we are looking upon them. This would mean for example as long as I'm not on this page the forum doesn't exist for me.
I think reality exists independently of our traditions, teachings and so on, but our perception is tinted by them.

 

[Judycat]

Did this ever happen to you? Say there's a nick on your kitchen countertop and one day you're working on something and you catch something move or appear out of the corner of your eye. You look and it's the nick that always had been there, except it wasn't, until you caught it appearing where it belongs out of the corner of your eye.

 

[DebraMae]

I think each of us create our own reality to a certain degree. Thus the term "self fulfilling prophecy".

 

[Right Now]

Reality is reality whether you accept or refuse it doesn't change it for the rest of us in any given moment.
Reality in each moment becomes history in the next.

 

[chic]

I think each of us create our own reality to a certain degree. Thus the term "self fulfilling prophecy".

Yes, I think we are the authors of our own destiny.

 

[hollydolly]

What if reality is just what we BELIEVE it to be based on our traditions and teachings, culture and religion as opposed to it being concrete and tangible? I don't buy into the theory that the universe is just a hologram, but to some it is. This makes me think about reality and how it really is largely subjective. If you think/believe something is so that makes it so for you and becomes your reality.

What do you think about this?

I think it is... I've kinda always thought this way

 

[Medusa]

Did this ever happen to you? Say there's a nick on your kitchen countertop and one day you're working on something and you catch something move or appear out of the corner of your eye. You look and it's the nick that always had been there, except it wasn't, until you caught it appearing where it belongs out of the corner of your eye.

Yes! It's a bit freaky, especially since the emergence of the idea of the Mandela Effect.

 

[Medusa]

This makes me think about reality and how it really is largely subjective. If you think/believe something is so that makes it so for you and becomes your reality.

You know, this goes along with the philosophical idea of Solipsism in that we can only prove our existence and, by extension, our own realities, to ourselves.

 

[Don M.]

Reality is probably different for everyone. The "big" question, in my mind, is what happens when we die. Is there really an "afterlife" and what happens to our "soul"? The various religions are all mostly "speculation", IMO. I just hope that trying to live a responsible life is sufficient.

 

[oldlongwalker]

Reality is what there is that is the same for everyone. Everything else is perceptions, impressions, or whatever else you want to call it OF reality. You can't have the latter without the former.

The trick is to get your perceptions aligned with reality so you don't do something stupid. Being guided by faulty perceptions is going to make for a very frustrating life.

 

[Medusa]

Reality is what there is that is the same for everyone.

I respect your position here, but that's the thing though, how do you know that, that reality just is, a thing that exists outside our awareness. Can you prove it to anyone but yourself?

Is it the same because we agree it is the same; similar to collective consciousness. - That's what's fun about this subject and discussing ideas like Solipsism.

 

[Judycat]

I've been wrestling with this since I was three years old and dropped a piece of powder from a powdered donut on the sidewalk. That powder wouldn't be there if I wasn't here trying to eat a powdered donut. Or would it? How would I know?

 

[oldlongwalker]

I respect your position here, but that's the thing though, how do you know that, that reality just is, a thing that exists outside our awareness. Can you prove it to anyone but yourself?

Is it the same because we agree it is the same; similar to collective consciousness. - That's what's fun about this subject and discussing ideas like Solipsism.

The only things that can be proven, strictly speaking, are mathematical and logical statements. Everything else is a matter of empirical evidence. There is no empirical evidence for solipsism. As the saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

[Medusa]

The only things that can be proven, strictly speaking, are mathematical and logical statements. Everything else is a matter of empirical evidence. There is no empirical evidence for solipsism. As the saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

That's what I'm saying, there is no empirical evidence for reality. Mathematical and logical statements can be proven only within the parameters of our agreed upon reality.

That's what the question is here (unless I misunderstood @chic) the nature of, the potential subjectivity of reality.

 

[Shalimar]

The only things that can be proven, strictly speaking, are mathematical and logical statements. Everything else is a matter of empirical evidence. There is no empirical evidence for solipsism. As the saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Of course, as a psychologist, I have a different view regarding the rigidity of reality.

 

[oldlongwalker]

Math and logic rely only understanding the language used by mathematicians and logicians. 2+2=4 is true by definition--not by any relationship to reality.

Science is based on empirical evidence. Given the sum total of scientific evidence, none of it gives even the slightest suggestion that reality isn't what science says it is.

The only possibility for science not describing reality is purely imaginary. I can think reality could be different, but I can't give any substantial evidence for that possibility.

 

[oldlongwalker]

Of course, as a psychologist, I have a different view regarding the rigidity of reality.

You must be doing abnormal psychology.

 

[oldlongwalker]

If I remember right, some scientists in quantum mechanics stated that all things exist only while we are looking upon them. This would mean for example as long as I'm not on this page the forum doesn't exist for me.

The quantum physics claim is a bit more complicated, but if you are interested in a fuller picture, take a look at The Emperor's New Mind by Roger Penrose. Chapter 6 is a very good explanation of quantum indeterminacy.

 

[oldlongwalker]

I think there are plenty of people who are ethical solipsists. They behave as if they are the only people. I try to avoid them.

 

[Shalimar]

You must be doing abnormal psychology.

I don’t think of you in those terms.

 

[Medusa]

Math and logic rely only understanding the language used by mathematicians and logicians. 2+2=4 is true by definition--not by any relationship to reality.

Science is based on empirical evidence. Given the sum total of scientific evidence, none of it gives even the slightest suggestion that reality isn't what science says it is.

The only possibility for science not describing reality is purely imaginary. I can think reality could be different, but I can't give any substantial evidence for that possibility.

We are looking at this from different perspectives. The nature of philosophical discussion is such that it tends to be open-ended. There is a bit of Russell's Teapot here in that I cannot say reality is a matter of perception and expect you to prove that it isn't. (Think I got that right).

However, you're missing the idea here that this is a philosophical, opened-ended thought experiment. You cannot prove reality is static because you have to do so within our mutually agreed-upon parameters of reality, which are subjective.

I mean, really, an entire group of philosophers can't have got it completely wrong.

 

[Medusa]

ethical solipsists

I wasn't familar with this term so looked it up:


Ethical solipsism is relative to ethical egoism; however, the difference is that while the ethical egoist thinks that others should abide by the social order while it is in their best interest to do what best suits them as individuals, the ethical solipsist is of the belief that no other moral judgment exists or matters outside of one's own individual moral judgment.

Alternatively, due to the solipsistic uncertainty regarding the existence of external beings, they believe it necessary for all, (self included,) to adhere to the ethical and moral standards, for other beings may be real and conscious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_solipsism

Interesting concept.

 

[Chet]

What's a word for not reality?

dreamlike, false, fanciful, hallucinatory, illusory, immaterial, unbelievable, artificial, insubstantial, unsubstantial, aerial, chimerical, delusive, fabled, fabulous, fictitious, fictive, ideal, imaginary, imagined.

So reality is the opposite of the above list.

 

[Medusa]

What's a word for not reality?

dreamlike, false, fanciful, hallucinatory, illusory, immaterial, unbelievable, artificial, insubstantial, unsubstantial, aerial, chimerical, delusive, fabled, fabulous, fictitious, fictive, ideal, imaginary, imagined.

So reality is the opposite of the above list.

Hi, @Chet, In my humble opinion, this is semantics, a slightly different discussion and doesn't really apply to the topic at hand.