Transgender affirming care banned in Oklahoma

Sunny

Sunny

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/oklahoma-governor-signs-gender-affirming-005012390.html

How do you feel about this? I really have conflicting opinions about it, and can't decide how I feel. (Not that I'm personally involved, I just dislike not knowing how I feel about something.)

I know it's tied up with politics, but let's leave the politics out and just consider this as a medical/psychological decision. Most of us here are probably not the parents of young children, but we could have grandkids involved. I doubt that any reputable doctor or hospital would perform surgery on minors for "gender affirmation." They probably aren't even allowed to. But what about other things, like hormone treatment, for instance? Is this kind of bill just political posturing, or could it actually be applied? Is treating minors with such drugs "child abuse?"

According to the article, 16 states have already made this a felony. Is this a serious moral issue, or just politics as usual, following in the path of gun control?
 

I don't believe that children are capable of making this kind of decision and do not believe we should furnish hormones, surgery, etc. to children for this purpose.

When I was seven I wanted to be a boy. I am thankful there was no option for me to make this change back then.

I believe adults have the ability and the right to make this decision and should be supported.
 
I believe also it should be left to the parents, but I'm sure some counseling in the matter would be a positive thing. Is it political posturing? Of course it is.
 

DebraMae said:
When I was seven I wanted to be a boy. I am thankful there was no option for me to make this change back then.
I believe adults have the ability and the right to make this decision and should be supported.
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My daughter has said the very same thing, @DebraMae ... until she was 9 or 10, she always chose to play with things like Hot Wheels, Lego, Lincoln Logs, Matchbox Car Wash, etc. and then around 10 or so got into Barbies, playing dress-up, and other things considered "for girls." She's told me she's glad I never asked if she wanted to be a boy because she wore jeans instead of dresses and played with Hot Wheels instead of dolls because these days I could have made it happen. :)
 
DebraMae said:
I don't believe that children are capable of making this kind of decision and do not believe we should furnish hormones, surgery, etc. to children for this purpose.

When I was seven I wanted to be a boy. I am thankful there was no option for me to make this change back then.

I believe adults have the ability and the right to make this decision and should be supported.
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Exactly this ^^^ even down to when I was a little I wanted to be a boy...
 
Geezer Garage said:
I believe also it should be left to the parents, but I'm sure some counseling in the matter would be a positive thing. Is it political posturing? Of course it is.
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Sorry, I don't agree. It's open to abuse. Say you always wanted a son/daughter.. and you never got one. Today if you're determined, you can just raise your small child in the gender you wish, convince them they are the opposite gender, and before you know it the child is totally under the illusion they were born in the wrong body.. It's then only up to the parents to sign on the dotted line. Nope I'm afraid that's totally open to abuse., IMO
 
I know this....upon reading my benefits plan recently I learned my health insurance will pay for "gender affirming care". And they appear to be far more generous than anything they ever paid for my MS, cataracts, husbands hips, pretty much everything.
 
Perhaps. It is a tough issue.

hollydolly said:
Sorry, I don't agree. It's open to abuse. Say you always wanted a son/daughter.. and you never got one. Today if you're determined, you can just raise your small child in the gender you wish, convince them they are the opposite gender, and before you know it the child is totally under the illusion they were born in the wrong body.. It's then only up to the parents to sign on the dotted line. Nope I'm afraid that's totally open to abuse., IMO
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wow wow wow ....................let's slow down a bit - I used to hear about 'tomboys' levelled at girls back in the 1900's must admit not much about tomgirls?? - but years back the world was a male focussed and dominated one so more tomboys that girls possibly - but the young often need protecting from themselves - it is normal and common for some of them to become confused about whether they really feel like girls or boys in opposite bodies. Nature and time clarifies very often - let's follow ancient instincts on this one not new fangled ideas
 
DebraMae said:
I don't believe that children are capable of making this kind of decision and do not believe we should furnish hormones, surgery, etc. to children for this purpose.

When I was seven I wanted to be a boy. I am thankful there was no option for me to make this change back then.

I believe adults have the ability and the right to make this decision and should be supported.
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Ditto. I was too tall and the nuns seated us in the classroom according to height so I was always seated with the boys in the back of our classroom and learned to talk like them and be interested in guy type things. I played baseball and all kinds of sports and believed I would like to be a boy until my hormones kicked in when I was about 12/13 and suddenly the boys and I wanted to play spin the bottle instead of baseball. Nature can be a wonderful thing and I am so glad the options that exist today did not exist back then. I would have made a terrible mistake. Kids are just too young to understand all at stake here.
 

‘I literally lost organs:’ Why detransitioned teens regret changing genders​


When Chloe was 12 years old, she decided she was transgender. At 13, she came out to her parents. That same year, she was put on puberty blockers and prescribed testosterone. At 15, she underwent a double mastectomy. Less than a year later, she realized she’d made a mistake — all by the time she was 16 years old.

Now 17, Chloe is one of a growing cohort called “detransitioners” — those who seek to reverse a gender transition, often after realizing they actually do identify with their biological sex. Tragically, many will struggle for the rest of their lives with the irreversible medical consequences of a decision they made as minors.

https://nypost.com/2022/06/18/detransitioned-teens-explain-why-they-regret-changing-genders/


As a mother and grandmother of both girls and boys, I don't know how I could answer a 17 yr old who was crying about losing her breasts if she asked me why I let her do that at as a minor of 15 years. Parents are supposed to protect children from making mistakes, especially life altering ones.
 
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Sunny said:
How do you feel about this?
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Glad I am old enough it doesn't effect me.

Regret that I am young enough to have to think about it...

I would not want people, especially children mistreated, but I understand too little about this to know what that mistreatment might look like...

My views on this have changed a lot since a friend of mine's son underwent the change and is now her daughter. I was very uncomfortable with the whole idea until I spent some time talking with the "new" girl after the change. She got it done in her early 20s. I have to say she seemed a much more confident happy person than the boy I had known. She told me how hard it was for her in school having to deny her feelings.

Like I say I don't understand this whole thing. But my experience with her taught me not to draw conclusions without knowing what you are talking about. I really don't... thought I did before this experience, now I know just enough to know I don't know...
 
There was a farmer who castrated one of his bulls in order to increase his milk/calf output. Oops, all he got was a steer.

Harem eunuchs and opera castrati did not become females, they were males without testicles.

Sexes cannot transition, they can only pretend.
 
perChance said:
Sexes cannot transition, they can only pretend.
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At some level you are right of course, DNA can't be changed. And there was a time I would have said something much like this.

I now think its mostly semantics. For reasons I don't understand there are people who are happier living as a gender that's inconsistent with their DNA. I may not understand it, but I also don't believe I should interfere with what makes them happy. And if calling and treating someone a gender that's not consistent with their DNA I'm ok with it. No skin off my nose.

I am sure there are things I do and am that others don't like or approve of, and I appreciate their courtesy in respecting my idiosyncrasies.
 
Alligatorob said:
I also don't believe I should interfere with what makes them happy. ....
I am sure there are things I do and am that others don't like or approve of, and I appreciate their courtesy in respecting my idiosyncrasies.
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This has nothing to do with, (my, or anyone else's) "liking or approving".

(Does it "make them happy", I'd suggest you read Myrtle's post above).
 
perChance said:
I'd suggest you read Myrtle's post above
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I did and Chloe's story is awful. I don't like the idea of making any irreversible changes to young people. I am just not sure what the right policy should be...

At what age is a person sufficiently wise to make decisions like this? What are the consequences of not allowing these things? Are there other young people like Chloe who were not allowed to make such changes and eventually committed suicide? What role should we allow the government to play in these things? I wish I knew the answers.
 
Alligatorob said:
A) I did and Chloe's story is awful. I don't like the idea of making any irreversible changes to young people. I am just not sure what the right policy should be...

B) At what age is a person sufficiently wise to make decisions like this? What are the consequences of not allowing these things? Are there other young people like Chloe who were not allowed to make such changes and eventually committed suicide? What role should we allow the government to play in these things? I wish I knew the answers.
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A) Primum non nocere

B) What about those who are allowed to make changes and subsequently commit suicide?

And what about those in male bodies who believe they are female, (or vice versa, and I'm not talking gay/lesbian here), and want relationships with straight males, (can you envision the possible problems when the post-op individual undertakes such an endeavor)?

Overall it's a sad situation, and certainly one I believe will only (longer term, once realism sets in) be exacerbated by unnecessary surgical operations, plus a lifetime of drugs taken to counteract the body's 'natural inclinations'.

What we should be asking ourselves, regarding what has virtually become an 'instant epidemic', is who is planting the seeds in the minds of the young, and why?
 
Alligatorob said:
What are the consequences of not allowing these things? Are there other young people like Chloe who were not allowed to make such changes and eventually committed suicide?
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Or perhaps the opposite?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/

(For those not wanting to click a link, it's about suicide and suicide attempt rate in the transgender community being "considerably high compared to general population.")
 
Missouri is just days away from instituting some strong "gender" regulations....especially for children. The new rules will require months of psychological treatment before any "medical" actions can be taken....which is probably a good thing.
 
Although, as I said, I am not sure where I stand on this issue, I do think that 15 is too young, and medical intervention should be allowed only once the person has reached the age of majority in that state (18 or 21?)
 
Don M. said:
Missouri is just days away from instituting some strong "gender" regulations....especially for children. The new rules will require months of psychological treatment before any "medical" actions can be taken....which is probably a good thing.
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I agree. Just look at Jazz Jennings who was an early transgender and whose mom pushed her towards hormone blockers and reassignment surgery. Now at 23, Jazz is confused and unhappy still and blames mom for pushing her into all this for reality tv fame and money.
 

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