Dangerous dog breeds

Warrigal

Warrigal

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Sydney, Australia
I'm not afraid of dogs at all but there are some breeds/crossbreeds that IMO are not at all suitable as family pets.

Today in NSW we have news of two toddlers (2 yo) being attacked by dogs not previously considered to be dangerous. One little boy died, the other was spared by his mother throwing herself over him to keep the dog pack from tearing him to pieces.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/toddler-killed-in-dog-attack-at-grandmothers-house-20130805-2r8ad.html


I have a young female relative who keeps posting photos on Facebook to convince everyone that pit bulls as really just pussy cats and totally adorable but I'm not convinced.

What do you think ?
 

That is a terribly sad story, Warri, and it really does not provide much information to tell what actually happened, and caused the dog to attack. Mastiffs, like Great Danes, are usually not vicious, but they are extremely protective, and maybe something triggered that instinct in the dog and caused the attack.
The thing is, with these large dogs, once they attack, they cannot usually be stopped, and they are so big that they do a lot of damage.

Pit Bulls are often a product of their environment. When they are kept by people that breed them to be fighters, and not a loving family dog, that is what they turn out to be, and if they are on a pack, then they lose any restraint they might have had.
We had a stray pit bull when the kids were growing up, and she followed Robin around everywhere, and was as nice of a dog as you could ever ask for.
I don't know what kind of life she had before she came to us straggly and starving, but she was treated with love after we found her, and responded with the same.
 
I only see one dog and one poor toddler mentioned in that but nonetheless a sad, sad thing.

A relative seems to think that buying a Rottweiler to protect her and the toddlers while her husband is away at work is a good idea. I hope she's right, but not every dog will react the same way to the same stimuli. I wouldn't be risking it. If she's that scared she can put up security gear, lights and alarms which would keep the little ones safer than an antsy Rottweiler.

Most toddlers will never be bitten by a dog but the fact that every now and then one is should make people stop and think about the possibilities.

The most savage, outright b**tard of a dog I ever knew was a tiny fluffy Bichon Frize. He drew plenty of blood from anything he could sink his teeth into but the damage was always below knee or elbow level. I'd have shot the little bugger anyway but at least he couldn't inflict the damage a big dog can. He could have easily scarred a toddler for life though.

I don't believe it's the nature alone of particular breeds of dogs that make them dangerous, it's their capabilities to inflict damage that does that.
I'd hate for kids to be deprived of the company of dogs, every kid should have one. But I do have reservations about the wisdom of kids under 3 or 4 being in close proximity to big dogs.

We've all got dog stories, good and bad, it comes down personal decision when it comes to placing a level of trust in a particular dog around small children.

Note: the dog in this story was the dog of a visiting cousin from what I heard. Perhaps it was never used to small children and as such should not have been allowed to have access to the child. Common sense wasn't in the equation apparently.

There's a whisper around that it was actually trained as a pig dog! But unsure if that's not just gossip. Actually I've known some pretty placid pig dogs but around kids??
 

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The dog in that instance was trained to be a pig dog and was quite large and very strong.

I agree that small dogs probably bite more, especially Chihuahuas, but the larger dogs are able to inflict serious damage and some breeds are more aggressive than others.

The most dangerous dog I ever had was a kelpie cross. She never bit anyone except once when a man came into our yard to borrow our box trailer. Hubby wasn't home and she must have reasoned that he was stealing it. She nipped at his feet as he was attempting to wheel it up to his car.

Even so, I would never allow her to be in close proximity to any visiting small children unless there was plenty of close supervisors around. She would be confined to the garage just in case.

It is unrealistic to believe that a dog will never bite. Powerful dogs bred for hunting cannot be assumed to be as benign as retrievers bred to fetch birds gently in their mouths or sheep dogs and guide dogs bred and trained for service.
 
When my kids were little, we had a Great Dane, and she was a very gentle dog, and excellent with the kids. She was also very protective of them. One day, Robins little friend came to visit her, and Laurel was one of those kids that was a screecher. Every few minutes, she was excited about something, it seemed like.
Well, pretty soon, they were holding the cat, and Laurel gave one of her screeches, and Juno, the Dane, ran to the rescue, grabbed the cat out of Laurels arms and had killed it before any of us could even move.

It was a sad lesson for everyone. The cat was dead, the girls were horrified, and Juno thought that she had saved them, but everyone was mad at her, which she could not begin to understand.
I realized how easily one of the girls could have been hurt, had Juno thought she needed to protect Robin for something. After that, we made sure the dog was tied up if there was company, just for safety's sake.
So, even when it is a dog that is trained, and well treated, accidents can happen.
 
Sad so many owners of pit bulls need a tragic incident to wake up. They always say, but not my dog, until tragedy happens.
I just can't think of pit bulls as anything but dangerous, have heard so many bad stories ... especially around little kids.

My own encounter ... I ran into a convenience store one day and there was a pit bull tied outside the door. He and I locked eyes and the look he gave me just terrified the daylights out of me! Red eyeballs and all .. he looked like he wanted to chew anyone up..... was really scared to go back outside that store.
 
I suppose that certain breeds because of their genetics are more apt to attack a human, but as I've always taught in my self-defense classes (yes, I taught defense against animals as well) you never know when an animal is going to revert to its primitive instincts. You can have all the Cesar Millan-approved training you want, but give friendly little Spot the right (wrong) stimulus and he's going to revert to being a wild animal.

It is on that basis that you should make your decision whether to have a dog.
 
It's true that even the friendliest family dog can attack at times.Most don't but there is always the possibility. More likely when there are several dogs.

Stray dogs or pets that run loose are the worst. They tend to form packs and forget their nice home life and return to pack behavior.
 
Maybe there's some chemical change in them? The reason I wonder is that a relative has a working dog. It's good with cattle but not at much else.
It's never been a pet, not even sure where it came from.

It's looks are a problem because it's almost identical in size, colour and form to a Dingo but has none of the traits of a Dingo so not a cross, just unlucky.
Poor Paddy has to wear a bright pink fluoro collar to keep the neighbours from shooting him on sight.

It brooks no nonsense from anyone or anything. It is a tough, "don't even think about patting me" dog. It'll take on a snake, another farm dog, random visitors when no-one's home, whatever.
Yet when any feral dogs are around it hides under a seat.
They're not Dingoes, just ordinary dogs gone wild. They look like a cross between Fido and Biffy, nothing remarkable to see except their sneaky behaviour.

How does he know the difference between another farm dog and a feral from a distance?
Another strange thing is that he ignores a Dingo howling but slinks off under something when he hears some dogs barking and howling in the scrub at night. Different 'language' too?
 
I've met some friendly pitbulls at the dog park, who are gentle and have been loved and properly socialized since they were puppies. Once when camping, as we walked up the road with our dogs, we saw two pitbulls on short chains protecting a camper, I was very concerned that they might get loose and harm or kill my dogs.

There's a lot of horror stories on TV, about pitbull attacks on people and other animals. The Animal Cops show filmed in Michigan shows way too many creeps who have their pitbulls on short HEAVY chains with padlocks on them, who are made to be mean and neglected by the owner, also used in dog fights. It's so sad when they use a puppy or a weaker breed as a "bait" dog for training, they rarely survive, and if they do, they're so injured, that they'd be better off dead. :( :mad:

Like already mentioned, the larger and stronger breeds can do much more damage before a fight can be broken up. I heard that a dog who is attacking another can be stopped by putting your finger into their rectum. I personally wouldn't have the nerve to try that technique. :eek:
 
Dogs are animals, and they do not process information and reasoning as a human does. As with all animal they have strong base survival instincts, which includes an extreme sense of hearing, smell, fight or flight instinct, and sometimes sight.

These instincts cause animals to view information in ways that humans cannot fully understand, and these instincts can override any behavioral training the animal may have, at any given moment.

In the case of dogs, some are wired with much stronger senses. Coupled with hunting, herding, protective, prey drive traits, and/or aggressive temperaments from possibly hundreds of years of selective breeding to insure these traits, nature can take over causing a dog to snap if the right set of circumstances are present.

Different breeds are developed for different reasons, with highly varying temperament ranges within the same breed.

Training and love will not over ride these instincts, and one cannot predict when a set of circumstances will come together to cause a dog to rely on base and bred-in instincts, as opposed to behavioral training.

Perhaps, the most important information is that by ancestral nature, dogs are pack animals with a hierarchy within the group. How this translates to living with humans is that if the owner or someone in the family does not establish the alpha role, the dog will take it on himself and tell everyone what to do.

Within the pack, which in a dog's mind is other people and animals living within the dog's established territory, everyone is assigned by the dog, a level of order in the hierarchy. It is up to the dog owners, that are parents of children to establish with the dog that the children are alpha to the dog. Once outside the territorial pack, or someone new comes into the area, all bets are off. The dog is then, if not advised otherwise, free to assign the new person or animal a place in the pack, or deem them an intruder or threat.

For example, I have groomed dogs that even the owners cannot touch, they designated themselves the alpha of the pack. They have to be tranquilized for even the most routine veterinary care and grooming.

On the other side of the coin, I have groomed dogs that the owner swears is treacherous to family members, yet after a few minutes of establishing who the pack leader is in the grooming room, I never had a grooming problem with them. In fact, many of these types of alpha mentality dogs became my favorite dogs to work on, and they were always happy to see me.

I specialized in grooming aggressive dogs. Some had to be tranquilized at first, but I really worked with the animal and owner to try to overcome this, not only for the dog, but the owner's wallet as well. I was successful in about 75 per cent of these cases, but would never, ever trust the dog not to revert to aggression with the wrong move.

Some breeds have built-in high prey drives, protective and fighting instincts. In my opinion, it should never be taken for granted that dogs of these breeds are safe, no matter how "sweet" they may seem, especially when being placed in a new situation with strangers, or small children who may unwittingly provoke the animal.

I made my sole living from dogs and horses for 25 years and have had hands on experience with most breeds of dogs and several of horses. I do believe that how an animal is trained, related to and socialized by their human caretakers can play a huge role in an animal's psyche and success in adapting to various situations.

Dogs of all sizes and shapes have base instincts, and coupled with the bred-in traits, all are capable of inflicting varying degrees of injury.

Thankfully, most dogs adapt very well to the human condition, and go through life providing us humans with lots of unconditional love and emotional support.

As far as Ceasar Milan goes..I think he is a good dog trainer and excellent entertainer, if only because he has the gift of fearlessness, guts and gab to do so.

What I don't like is the fact that he lulls the casual dog owner into a false sense of thinking that it's easy to turn aggressive dogs around.

He gets bitten occasionally on camera. What you're likely not seeing is the full blown aggression and injuries that happens off camera, as well as unsuccessful attempts to rehab a bad actor. I have my own, albeit unpopular, opinion on how aggressive dogs should be dealt with.

This kind of lulling people into thinking they are trainers is prevalent in the horse world also..which can really get you killed. If dogs can be unpredictable at times, horses wrote the book, illustrated the pictures and published it themselves!

In the case of Pit Bulls, they have been unquestionably bred for fighting and aggressive mindsets, which are highly prized in certain unsavory circles. If the dog is to be a family member, it is up to the owner to recognize that these traits are present in the psyche of the breed, even if they may seem dormant, and properly socialize and establish themself and others in contact with the dog as alpha pack members. There should never be a false sense of security that the dog will not flashback to his heritage given the right circumstance.

Whew!......Sorry this is so long, but dogs, and in particular the Pitt Bull controversy, are much more complicated subjects than defenders of the breed saying things like, "I had a insert breed that was sweet and would never bite anyone." or "It's all in how the dog was raised".

Not taking direct quotes from here, but only generalizing in what I have heard so many times over the years concerning many different breeds.
 
Everybody has dog stories, all true, and indicative of the complexity of the dog/people relationship. There's no hard fast rule that applies to all cases. We're supposed to be the 'smart' half of the partnership, too many cases crop up where that isn't all too obvious.

[story alert]

Arrived at my cousin's place in a country town at dusk. They weren't home from work yet but I knew where the key was so threw the suitcase in and headed outside for a smoke. It was drizzling rain and the shed door was open so I stood in the doorway for a bit and then saw something coming towards me in the gloom.
I hit the light switch and there, 5 feet in front of me was a heavy set, low slung dog with a pitbull's head. A fearsome creature to behold.
It gave no signs away, just stood and stared at me. No snarl, no tail wag, just bein' Joe Cool and letting me do my figuring out while he summed me up.

So, wadda ya do when you think you're possibly on the menu? You pretend it's a small child and say in a silly friendly voice "hello, where did you come from?, do you want to get in the shed?, just let me stand aside for you" . I kept talking to that dog until he couldn't stand it any longer and came slowly to, and past me into the shed and curled up on a pile of bags at the back. I finished the smoke and headed calmly into the house as my cousin and husband arrived home.

She cracked up laughing when I told her. She'd forgotten to tell me about 'Fat Boy'. We never knew his real name. A friend owned him but as 'Fat Boy' was known to hunt and eat neighbour's cats he thought it a good idea to 'retire' him from the yard as his daughter and young child were moving in with him.
So the short and nasty story was that Sal was 'minding' him until her brother could come for him and take him out in the bush and shoot him.
But Sal grew quite fond of him so he was on reprieve.

He was the heaviest dog I ever encountered, but not fat, as his new name suggested, he was just pure muscle and was built like a boulder.
Not long after, I bought and moved into the house next door and for a few years Fat Boy spent every day in my place and just went home at night. He was a great pal, and if he wanted to show me something would grab my hand and lead me to it. I'd seen those jaws snap a lamb leg bone and grind it to dust yet I was never nervous about him.

Until something changed in him. As he aged he got more and more nervous. He began to freak out if a storm was coming. The army barracks and mines were nearby and explosions were just a part of the background noise there but he started to react in panic to the sounds. I always took him home when I was going out, but one day I arrived home to find him shaking and 'crying' at my back door, covered in blood.

There was a storm coming and he'd panicked and tore a strip out of the steel panel fence and squeezed through, hence the blood. Now that was getting to be scary enough but he then started climbing the gates and getting out amongst the neighbours. He took great pride in showing me a strip of cat hide one day and we had to consider what could happen if he got out when the kids were coming past from school. They strung up an electric fence around the yard as a last resort but even that didn't stop him. He'd take the charge and keep going!

After all those years of being a cool calm friend, he'd gone back to his old ways and was no longer the dog we knew and loved. His sentence was eventually carried out but at least he'd had a few good years more than originally intended.

We were all distraught about him, I missed him terribly and cried for days but he really was just too dangerous to risk. To put it simply he just wasn't Fatboy any more, he had become 'someone' else entirely.

We may have been lucky that it was a slow change, some may change faster.

[/end story]
 
Great (but sad) story, Di.

I wonder if that's similar to humans that get Alzheimer's? If so, I still wonder at the disconnect that we put a dog like that down but not a human ... granted the human might not be such a danger to others as the dog, but the deterioration of the mind would I think be similar - a reversion to a more primitive state.
 
Very interesting posts.

It is interesting when some dogs that are snappy around adults show tenderness and protective behaviour towards little children.
Apparently my first friend was my grandfather's rather elderly cocker spaniel. As a young dog he has survived distemper and it was thought that it affected his brain which may or may not have been a reality. He was a dog that you did not approach while he was feeding. Mum and I lived with Pop while my dad was away in the war and the dog and I were very close friends. I was the only one who could approach him when feeding but then I was also the only one who shared my food with him, bite for bite and lick for lick. Even so, a bite from a cocker spaniel would have been no more than a sharp lesson. I doubt that he would have torn me to pieces.

The story about the Downes Syndrome child and the rottweiler reminded me of friends who has a very badly affected daughter. They had a Samoyed bitch who watched over her when she was crawling and would physically stand between the child and the back steps to protect her. The child was quite cruel to the dog, unconsciously of course, but the dog accepted all the abuse without any response. This same Samoyed raised the pups of the other family pet which was a totally useless Chihuahua. The Chihuahua killed her first litter by attempting to jump up and down from the bed and abandoned her second litter and the Samoyed took over the job. It had nothing to do with training. She just had very strong mother instincts.

We have a cattle dog breed over here that is often kept as a family pet. They are very protective of their family, particularly the children. For this reason they can be dangerous when children are playing together if the dog thinks their charge is threatened. They are wonderful dogs but they cannot be fully trusted.

The Australia Cattle Dog, otherwise known as the blue heeler.

 
SifuPhil said:
I wonder if that's similar to humans that get Alzheimer's? If so, I still wonder at the disconnect that we put a dog like that down but not a human ... granted the human might not be such a danger to others as the dog, but the deterioration of the mind would I think be similar - a reversion to a more primitive state.
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Yes, dogs as they age can mentally deteriorate with age, just as humans with Alzheimer's. It's called Canine Cognitive Dysfunction. There is a drug on the market, Anapryl used to treat this condition. Not sure how successful it is though.

AAAnnnnnndddd......speaking of dogs, another one just showed up in my yard this evening. A young black lab....I guess the word is out in the dog pipeline that this is the place to come. After putting him on the other side of the gate in the driveway and hoping he would explore other options, he followed the fence down to the creek and came back in. He is now tucked in the pasture cooling his heels, crying his heart out. Dayum!!
 
TWH, I'm pretty sure the Australian Shepherd is a very different dog from the Blue Heeler. Actually the A.Shep is an American breed from memory. The name is a misnomer.
It would be a very rare farmer who put a Blue Heeler onto sheep, they play far too rough. They're bred for cattle work and aren't called 'heelers' for the their obedience, they're called that because they bite the heels of 'stroppy cattle to bring them into line. I believe they were bred with a touch of Dingo DNA in them which is why they can be a bit iffy behaviour wise. They're usually just called Cattle Dogs. Sheep are a bit delicate for that kind of treatment. We use mainly Kelpies and Border Collies for sheep.

I had a cross B.Collie/ Blue cattle dog in the city and he used to round up cars when he got out. He'd go in low and fang the back tyres, that heeling instinct is just inbuilt.
He eventually lost the tips off most his canine teeth learning the hard way that cars aren't cattle and wheels ain't heels.
I'd had him since he was a pup and he was never trained as a herder, just instinctual. He'd even try to round up a flock of birds, and would line dead leaves up and watch 'em until the wind moved one so he could pounce on it and put it back in place.

I took pity on him and gave him back to an Uncle in the country who had owned Blue's mother who had recently died.
He was a mines deputy and living in a house that went with the job and there was the whole mine lease for Blue to run and chase things on so he was happier there. Those type of dogs shouldn't be kept in cities.

[Story]... The mine manager had a couple of Clydesdales that he kept on the lease. They were descendents of the 'pit ponies' and had been on that land for generations. So Blue, being what he was, and a new boy in town, decided to organize them. In he went, low and intent on the back heel but these old horses were nobody's fools.

The one he went for lifted the foot just before he got there and stamped it down so hard that a cloud of dust and noise went up right in Blue's face.
He skidded to a stop underneath it then took off for home. We were doubled up laughing on the back porch watching all this. Far as I heard he never even looked at those horses again.
He was incredibly lucky he only heard that huge hoof and didn't wear it on his face.

I heard a while later that the entire mining crew were laughing for weeks about him trying to round up the stray cats that lived under the lunchroom. They said you could hear him howling a mile away as he headed home, full tilt, with 4 or 5 cats chasing him. He wasn't as successful at his job in the country as he had seemed as a city boy.

[/end story]
 
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In general I agree that a custodial sentence might be appropriate for some attacks but IMO life would have to be reserved for someone who sooled their dogs onto someone, resulting is death.
 
I had an Alsation dingo cross which from all accounts had been injured as a pup this left him fearful of strangers and other dogs, one day a big Goanna (lizard) came
across the property not far from where he was dozing, strewth talk about change he took of after that lizard at 100 miles an hour snarling all the way until i called him off.

What i witnessed was the dingo in him come to life, so yes when you think you know them they show you different.
 
Warrigal said:
In general I agree that a custodial sentence might be appropriate for some attacks but IMO life would have to be reserved for someone who sooled their dogs onto someone, resulting is death.
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Whatever sentencing laws are bought in, not everyone will agree with them.

An owner doesn't have to set their dogs onto anyone for it too attack, but there are those irresponsible dog owners that know their dog is not safe out in public with out some sort of restraint on them.
 
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Never mess with an angry Asthma Hound Chihuahua . . .

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Of course, dogs are not the only dangerous animals that some people keep as pets.
This is a very sad story from Canada

Police: Python escaped cage inside apartment, not store

Natalie DiBlasio and Michael Winter, USA TODAY 5:55 p.m. EDT August 6, 2013

Canadian authorities said 100-pound African snake that killed two young brothers is prohibited in New Brunswick.

1375818056000-AP-Canada-Python-Boys-Killed-1308061557_4_3.jpg

An African rock python that escaped its enclosure killed two young brother during a sleepover in owner's home above the exotic pet store in Campbellton, New Brunswick, Canada.(Photo: John LeBlanc, AP)


The African rock python that killed two young New Brunswick brothers escaped from its floor-to-ceiling glass cage in the apartment where the boys were sleeping, not from the exotic pet store below, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police said Tuesday. The snake, which was about 16 feet long and weighed 100 pounds, apparently entered a ceiling vent sometime late Sunday or early Monday and slithered through the ducts before crashing into the store owner's living room, where 4-year-old Noah Barthe and 6-year-old Connor Barthe were sleeping, police said at a news briefing. The son of store owner Jean-Claude Savoie was asleep in another room and not harmed.

Autopsies were being conducted on the boys Tuesday. Pythons are non-venomous and kill by strangulation.
The snake, which Savoie captured after discovering the dead boys, was euthanized Monday and was to undergo a necropsy to possibly learn more about the rare attack on humans. Savoie said that he had the snake for about 10 years and that it was kept alone and not handled by anyone else. Authorities also announced that the African rock python is banned in the province and that Savoie may not have been licensed to keep the species at Reptile Ocean in Campbellton, which opened in 1995. The store is registered as a reptile zoo that charges admission for educational purposes.

Savoie told the Global News television station that he didn't hear a sound and discovered the "horrific scene" about 6:30 a.m. Monday when he went into his living room.

"I can't believe this is real," he said.

The killings surprised and confounded reptile experts. The last reported attack on a human by an African rock python occurred in South Africa in 2002, when a 10-year-old boy was strangled and swallowed.

John Kendrick, a manager at the Reptile Store in Hamilton, Ontario, said it sounds as if the python was not enclosed properly and might have been spooked. He called the strangling deaths "very unusual," but said African rock pythons tend to be a little more high-strung than other species.

Pythons are among the largest snakes on Earth and can reach more than 26 feet and weigh up to 200 pounds. They are carnivores and can quickly knock a person out with a squeeze around the head or neck, cutting off air and blood flow — which is why experts say they should not be kept as pets.

Tens of thousands of Burmese pythons are believed to be living in the Florida Everglades. Some owners are freeing the giant snakes when they grow too large. Others may have escaped from pet shops during Hurricane Andrew in 1992. They have been reproducing ever since and appear to be wiping out large numbers of raccoons, opossums and bobcats.

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Laws on keeping a snake as a pet vary depending on where you live. In response to the tragedy that left the two boys dead, the city of Montreal is considering stiffening its laws on exotic snakes. As of now, people can own non-venomous snakes under 3 metres long.
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