Where do animal instincts come from?

bobcat

bobcat

Well-known Member
Location
Northern Calif
This has baffled me for years. How does a bird know how to build a nest, or even know that it needs to? A nest was already built when it was hatched, so it didn't get to watch it's parents do it, so how does it know? How does a spider know how to build a web. The web was already built when it was born as well?
Animals seem to intuitively know things from birth. How does that happen? If it's somehow written in their DNA, does that mean molecules have inherent knowledge?
I have lots of Acorn Woodpeckers at my house, and they choose a feeder tree, peck hundreds of holes, and then go find an acorn that fits the hole, stuff it in, and save it for winter. Not only that, but they put rocks in many of the holes to fool the other woodpeckers that are not part of their family. I was always finding rocks on my deck, and wondered how in the hell they got there. Well, I finally realized that the woodpeckers were accidentally dropping them when they fly over.

Anyway, just wondering what your thoughts are on how animals instinctively know things, or examples of things you have noticed.
 

It's innate behavior and in an animals genes. Wouldn't say it's knowledge. It's not something they know, it's something they do.

innate
ĭ-nāt′, ĭn′āt″

adjective​

  1. Existing naturally or by heredity rather than being learned through experience.
  2. Of or produced by the mind rather than learned through experience.
  3. Possessed as an essential characteristic; inherent.
 
Naturally said:
It's innate behavior and in an animals genes. Wouldn't say it's knowledge. It's not something they know, it's something they do.

innate
ĭ-nāt′, ĭn′āt″

adjective​

  1. Existing naturally or by heredity rather than being learned through experience.
  2. Of or produced by the mind rather than learned through experience.
  3. Possessed as an essential characteristic; inherent.
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Yeah, I guess I'm just mystified as to where it comes from. If it is something that is done without prior knowledge or experience, then it must exist at a cellular level, and if so, does that mean that molecules have some sort of inherent intelligence, or whatever you want to call it. I don't know.
 
I think we also have a lot of instinctive behaviors, we just don't always recognize them. Probably 75% of our mating behaviors are instinctively driven or influenced anyway. Imagine putting an 18 year old couple together, without supervision. A couple who had little exposure to members of the opposite sex or education as to what to do. Don't think it would take them long to figure it out.

The difference between us and most animals is that we have the capacity to learn things collectively. To learn from others and the past. That makes instinctive behaviors less important, but probably more important than we realize.
 
Alligatorob said:
I think we also have a lot of instinctive behaviors, we just don't always recognize them. Probably 75% of our mating behaviors are instinctively driven or influenced anyway. Imagine putting an 18 year old couple together, without supervision. A couple who had little exposure to members of the opposite sex or education as to what to do. Don't think it would take them long to figure it out.

The difference between us and most animals is that we have the capacity to learn things collectively. To learn from others and the past. That makes instinctive behaviors less important, but probably more important than we realize.
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It's funny I guess, but our mating behavior is driven by the need to reproduce, but now with birth control, or no desire to have children, or sex after menopause, has taken that instinctive behavior a whole different direction (Not that I'm complaining ... it's all good). Lol
 
Like humans animals innate behaviours are instinctive. They are controlled by genes. Innate behaviours do not have to be learned.
Our reflexes are innate behaviours and the same goes for animals.

Like humans, animals have genetic memory of their ancestral environments…when we domesticate animals, we mess with that memory.
 
I'm sure there's an explanation somewhere. To me it seems robotic in nature. Birds build nests on my front porch and near my back door. Whenever I open or just look out of either door the nest sitter flies away in fear. Doesn't care about the eggs or the chicks. They build there every year and do the same thing every year. It would be nice if they would build in any of the numerous trees around, but no, they come back year after year. They do manage to hatch, raise the chicks and make a racket for weeks. The mother bird doesn't seem to know what's going on. She just does the stuff she does until she doesn't have to anymore.
 
bobcat48 said:
Anyway, just wondering what your thoughts are on how animals instinctively know things, or examples of things you have noticed.
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Animals evolve based on attributes that contribute to survival and the ability to reproduce and consequently create more of their kind, ones with similar instincts and abilities. Those that have the best attributes, those that aid in survival and reproduction, are the most likely to pass along those genetic attributes. Birds that lay their eggs on a rock or in the dirt are less likely to pass along their genes than those birds that build a nest that safeguards their eggs high in a tree.
 
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Judycat said:
I'm sure there's an explanation somewhere. To me it seems robotic in nature. Birds build nests on my front porch and near my back door. Whenever I open or just look out of either door the nest sitter flies away in fear. Doesn't care about the eggs or the chicks. They build there every year and do the same thing every year. It would be nice if they would build in any of the numerous trees around, but no, they come back year after year. They do manage to hatch, raise the chicks and make a racket for weeks. The mother bird doesn't seem to know what's going on. She just does the stuff she does until she doesn't have to anymore.
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That's crazy. I guess old habits are hard to break.
I heard a story once of a wife that always cut the end off of a roast before cooking it. The husband observed this a few times, and finally asked her why she did that. Her reply was that she learned to cook from her mother and that's just the way you do it. Finally one day, the husband was in the company of his mother-in-law, and he asked her why she always cut the end off of the roast before cooking it. He got the same reply that she learned to cook from her mother, and that's just the way you do it. Well, fortunately the grandmother was still alive, so the husband made a special trip to ask her, because by this time it was getting to him and he wanted an answer. So he asks the grandmother why she cut the end off the roast. Her answer was because she never had a big enough pan for the whole thing.
 
ElCastor said:
Animals evolve based on attributes that contribute to survival and the ability to reproduce and consequently create more of their kind, ones with similar instincts and abilities. Those that have the best attributes, those that aid in survival and reproduction, are the most likely to pass along those genetic attributes. Birds that lay their eggs on a rock or in the dirt are less likely to pass along their genes than those birds that build a nest that safeguards their eggs high in a tree.
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Understood. I guess all that isn't the part that puzzles me, and I'm not very good at expressing that distinction.
I will try another tack here. When genes and chromosomes are copied, they end up in the new cell after cell division, whether it is for height, hair color, eyes, etc..., but those are all physical. How does innate knowledge or instinct make it's way into a new cell. Does the cell at the molecular level contain behavior knowledge. Is there a gene for nest building? It always seems like the pat answer is that animals are just born with it.
Maybe I'm just asking something that doesn't have an answer. I don't know, maybe it just is and that's it.
 
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The way I see it is that every creature that makes use of perception must have the cognitive ability to interpret it. Some behavior in some creatures is like autopilot, a stimulus directly results in a response. Most of those responses evolved hit or miss with the successful passing on the capacity to its more numerous heirs.

But creatures which evolved more flexible cognitive capacity were still more successful. We are the most flexible of all and yet most if our processing takes place pre cognitively. That allows us the luxury of not having to immediately react, what we call free will. But if we had to make all the choices we’d have much less freedom. It is fortunate that what we pay attention too apart from the narrow range of activities which we attend very closely to is handled below that threshold. Otherwise our experience would be much less idyllic than it is. But the notion that all our behavior is as determined as the paths of billiard balls after they are struck is absurd.
 
MarkD said:
The way I see it is that every creature that makes use of perception must have the cognitive ability to interpret it.
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Perhaps there is a sense of self when animals are young.

A bird isn't taught how to build a nest, but that's what it was surrounded by and observed when hatched.
So, maybe that's why it builds a nest for its young.

The spider wasn't taught to spin a web but that is what it was surrounded by and observed when hatched.
And then it has a thing on it's body that produces sticky stuff just like the web the adult spider had and used to trap food.

Should be easy enough to prove to what degree a sense of self is at play.
Do birds from incubated eggs with no mature bird intervention or interaction what so ever, still know how to build nests?
And even if they do attempt to build a nest, is it a random mess or a meaningfully arranged structure?
 
MarkD said:
The way I see it is that every creature that makes use of perception must have the cognitive ability to interpret it. Some behavior in some creatures is like autopilot, a stimulus directly results in a response. Most of those responses evolved hit or miss with the successful passing on the capacity to its more numerous heirs.

But creatures which evolved more flexible cognitive capacity were still more successful. We are the most flexible of all and yet most if our processing takes place pre cognitively. That allows us the luxury of not having to immediately react, what we call free will. But if we had to make all the choices we’d have much less freedom. It is fortunate that what we pay attention too apart from the narrow range of activities which we attend very closely to is handled below that threshold. Otherwise our experience would be much less idyllic than it is. But the notion that all our behavior is as determined as the paths of billiard balls after they are struck is absurd.
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Well said.
 
Naturally said:
Perhaps there is a sense of self when animals are young.
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I don't know about a sense of self anything like ours in that I don't think they re-present experience as we do. Even those that use language don't seem to have our range and certainly don't use symbolic language. But I think in most ways I think mammals at least have the full suite of feelings and emotions. They're also good observers and learners; they just don't write I all down or express it in words. I'd say they are capable of a sense of dignity and deserve our respect. Dogs in particular are capable of devotion and courage on our behalf.
 
bobcat48 said:
Understood. I guess all that isn't the part that puzzles me, and I'm not very good at expressing that distinction.
I will try another tack here. When genes and chromosomes are copied, they end up in the new cell after cell division, whether it is for height, hair color, eyes, etc..., but those are all physical. How does innate knowledge or instinct make it's way into a new cell. Does the cell at the molecular level contain behavior knowledge. Is there a gene for nest building? It always seems like the pat answer is that animals are just born with it.
Maybe I'm just asking something that doesn't have an answer. I don't know, maybe it just is and that's it.
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Everything has an answer. Birds build nests, they also migrate, mate with other birds of their species, some feed on dead animals, others on flowers, etc. Over the millennia of their evolution they are guided by what succeeds for them in their environment. That success grants them the ability to survive and pass on their genetics to their progeny. Ever notice the dominance of Black athletes in many Olympic events? They evolved in a harsh brutal environment that rewarded speed, strength and athletic ability with survival and the opportunity to reproduce. Ashkenazi Jews on the other hand may not dominate the Olympics, but their relatively small numbers dominate the Nobel Prize arena out of proportion to their numbers. The reason for this gift of intelligence is believed to be genetic and too complex to explain here. Genetics is obvious in animals, plants, and all living things, but far from being completely understood it is nevertheless the reason birds build nests and Einstein was able to create his theory of relativity.
 
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I find it fascinating how my cat can look out the window watching dog after dog being walked by and not twitch a whisker. But let a cat go by and all hell breaks loose. Instinct tells him something.
 

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