To All: what do you think of affirmative action?

Ruthanne

Ruthanne

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I don't want to get into who said what but would like to hear your opinion. I currently am on the fence about it. I see both points of view and my own too.
 

People are confused about it. Some think that means unqualified people get in over qualified. That is simply not true. Once qualification is satisfied, then race becomes a factor. I am in favor of affirmative action. To paraphrase the tortured Lyndon B. Johnson "Can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps if you don't have boots."
 
Pepper said:
People are confused about it. Some think that means unqualified people get in over qualified. That is simply not true. Once qualification is satisfied, then race becomes a factor. I am in favor of affirmative action. To paraphrase the tortured Lyndon B. Johnson "Can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps if you don't have boots."
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I see .
 

Whenever I make an affirmative action in a conversation... En bon français, what I want them to do AND THEY DONT DO IT... Sorry for the shouts, stress relief here lol.

I then get really .... Well you can just imagine how this Aries react lol!
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One of the controversies here in Canada has to do with "how much of an Aboriginal are you '? A few people who landed jobs with the Federal Government were later found to have lied about their Aboriginal heritage, and they were dismissed , based on their having lied about their past. The Chief of the National Assembly of Aboriginal People has recently been removed from her position by a vote of 71 percent of the Chief's on that Council. Why ? She was found to have been guilty of using her position to her advantage, and using unprofessional methods in her dealings with her staff. She is fighting her dismissal in the courts, using tax payer's money, to pay for her lawyer's costs. JimB.
 
Purwell said:
I have no idea what "affirmative action" is.

Can someone please enlighten me?
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In theory, it's an attempt to level the playing field. But some would say, it's an attempt to tilt the playing field. The new Supreme Court believes it is an attempt to tilt the field.
 
The idea of A.A. is to supposedly level the "playing field". That sounds nice, but by the time a person is old enough to get on the "playing field", he's got a second-class education, and a rap sheet of misdemeanors from overzealous cops, a firsthand course in the drug economy and a trainload of emotional baggage, due to bigotry and racism. We should have been trying to level the playing field the day he was born, not 20 years later.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
The idea of A.A. is to supposedly level the "playing field". That sounds nice, but by the time a person is old enough to get on the "playing field", he's got a second-class education, and a rap sheet of misdemeanors from overzealous cops, a firsthand course in the drug economy and a trainload of emotional baggage, due to bigotry and racism. We should have been trying to level the playing field the day he was born, not 20 years later.
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Normally, I wouldn't reply to this type of negative e-mail, but it kind of reminds me of a book I read about "Victims crying, "It's not my fault." Or something like that. I think you are referring to low income areas and maybe even a certain race or races. But, don't forget, we all had an opportunity to vote for school choice, but we hated the person who proposed it, so it never passed, because the other party is owing to the school unions because of their huge donations. Secondly, your comments only pertain to a very small amount of people that are still living in the Ice Age. I can tell you with complete honesty, that your comments don't now or ever applied to me personally.

I felt kind of offended by this post, but people are still allowed to have their own opinions.
 
It is like any other government program on paper or in theory may sound OK..... but in actual use it fails.

We would like to think every candidate had equal qualifications but often that was not always true, in practice some employment to avoid saying they passed on qualified person so they limit who they even invite to an interview.

In the case some civil servant or other job exams....... AFTER test is scored.......... they add points for being minority and/ or a women
If one candidate scores a 90% in knowledge test......... and the other a 75% .......but add the extra allotted points .......and both NOW score a 90...... are they both equally qualified?

When a candidate is hired and does not do well .... co-workers and such think well it was a hire based on something other then skill.....
and even if doing well....... some people feel they have to prove they were not hired because of other reasons.........
 
A joke, that has a basis of truth in it, here in Ontario. The Ontario Provincial Police is a large Police Service with over 7500 sworn Officers, who patrol a geographical area that is just about exactly the size of Texas. The OPP wanted to hire more Aboriginal officers, to work in the far north of the Province, where many of the people are either Aboriginal, or Metis.

The problem was that the vast majority of the applicants were Indians, but they were born IN India, not in Canada. They met all the requirements, were Canadian citizens ( after Immigrating to Canada as adults ) had the appropriate education standards, and met the physical testing regime. In other words, they were good recruits.

The problem was that the Aboriginal communities were unwilling to have Police in their area who were not Canadian Aboriginals. The OPP was able to train the Indian applicants through the Ontario Police College, and employ them in other parts of the Province. The staffing of the far northern Ontario communities continues to be a problem. JimB.
 
Ruthanne said:
To All: what do you think of affirmative action?
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Depends on what it looks like.

As I have said elsewhere it is well documented that descendants of Africans slaves are still economically and socially disadvantaged. I think we need to recognize that and try to do something to fix it. When affirmative action first started that was of course it's purpose, and I think intentions were good. But I am not sure it has worked as well as we had hoped.

I think what now makes sense is affirmative action to help all disadvantaged people rise up, no matter the race. Not sure if that fits your definition of affirmative action.

Note, the same may be true for Native Americans or other minorities as the slave descendants, I don't know...
 
Stand on your own two feet and win or lose so to speak, I am in a minority and in college I had to work for my grades and everything else in life and rightly so.How is AA fair to the ones who play by the rules and work hard to do their best and succeed without help?
 
perplexed said:
Stand on your own two feet and win or lose so to speak, I am in a minority and in college I had to work for my grades and everything else in life and rightly so.How is AA fair to the ones who play by the rules and work hard to do their best and succeed without help?
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You are right of course, however people who like you "had to work for my grades and everything else in life" will be fine with or without affirmative action. I am white and got no help of that kind, don't feel like I was hurt. It's not fair, but then its not fair that I was born into a stable middle class family and many others were not. Nothing I did to make that happen.

I think most people who have benefited from affirmative action would also have done well without it, just maybe not as well. Clarence Thomas is a case in point. Without affirmative action he likely would not have gotten into Yale Law School, and probably would not have made the supreme court. However he is a very bright ambitious man, he would have found a way to success without it, maybe just a bit less success.

Hopefully we can find a way to help the disadvantaged to rise up that feels more fair to all of us, and works better.
 
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The LAW of our land was slavery. Not a custom, a LAW. Jim Crow was a LAW. In our lifetimes, this is not ancient history. Just a reminder for those who have forgotten. When I was a child, there were ex-slaves still alive and black people were not welcome in Macy's, etc. Not ancient history, our lifetimes. That leaves deep scars that some need help in overcoming. To paraphrase Justice Jackson: the law may say colorblind but Life does not.
 
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It's sad that my people had to have Affirmative Action legislated in order to get a fair shot at a college education in the first place. Those who are against it don't realize, or don't care, that blocking young African Americans from getting higher education was part of a system that was already in place for over a hundred years. My hope is that now that it's not an anomaly for Blacks to attend universities and having had many, many successful graduates from such universities, that there will not be anymore discrimination against people of color, especially since the law to protect against it has been stuck down.
 
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Alligatorob said:
You are right of course, however people who like you "had to work for my grades and everything else in life" will be fine with our without affirmative action. I am white and got no help of that kind, don't feel like I was hurt. It's not fair, but then its not fair that I was born into a stable middle class family and many others were not. Nothing I did to make that happen.

I think most people who have benefited from affirmative action would also have done well without it, just maybe not as well. Clarence Thomas is a case in point. Without affirmative action he likely would not have gotten into Yale Law School, and probably would not have made the supreme court. However he is a very bright ambitious man, he would have found a way to success without it, maybe just a bit less success.

Hopefully we can find a way to help the disadvantaged to rise up that feels more fair to all of us, and works better.
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I am white too and born into a very poor family. I was born with not one but two severe disabilities and no one and I mean no one gave me a thing in life. What I have I worked hard for as we all should, you can succeed in life if you want to succeed .People want hand outs not a hand up and that is not fair to those of us who got ours fair and square.
 

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