Should women be allowed to go topless?

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CallMeKate said:
you may want to read up on what ERA/women's rights is really about
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Never could understand opposition to the ERA. The ERA contains only 3 articles (https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-86/pdf/STATUTE-86-Pg1523.pdf):

SECTION 1. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.​

SEC. 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.​

SEC. 3. This amendment shall take effect two years after the date​
of ratification.​

Arguably only the first is important, Congress can already make laws to enforce equal rights, I think.

Hard to understand why anyone, regardless of gender, or political persuasion would oppose something so simple, and obviously right.
 
CallMeKate said:
Equal rights? Uh... you may want to read up on what ERA/women's rights is really about. Calling this thing you asked an "equal rights issue" seriously weakens what women are *really* concerned about. I have kept out of this conversation purposely for days now, but every time I saw "equal rights" mentioned, I cringed. And I might even go so far as to say attitudes like this is one of the biggest problems about why it never gets as far as it should.

My answer is not about whether or not it should be allowed, but about bringing "equal rights" into it. I apologize if I've stepped on anyone's toes, but as a mid-60s woman, I really hate to see something serious like the fight for equal rights be cheapened into whether or not we should let boobs hang out. And if I say much more, I'll regret it tomorrow, so...
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For reference , here is the definition per Webster's Dictionary:

women's rights​

plural noun​


: legal, political, and social rights for women equal to those of men.

As for it diminishing or weakening the other causes of women's rights, it does nothing of the kind. If the law stated that men could have their own basketball league, but women weren't allowed to, you may think that cause weakens all the other women's causes because you personally don't care about it, but it is totally independent from all the others. Sorry to disagree with you, but I do respect your opinion.
 
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bobcat48 said:
Well, apparently things are changing. It is now legal in six states, with more that are in the courts to be resolved. The problems arise with definitions and interpretations that are weak arguments at best. In some states, the existing laws say that it is illegal to expose *******s, which the "Free The Nipple" movement argues that breasts are not genit**s. In other states, they cite erogenous zones, which could be a person's earlobe or even a male's nipples. In other states, they say any public exposure of body parts that may offend someone, but a guy wearing his pants too low exposing a butt crack can offend people, so these arguments against it are often failing because tradition is not a good argument for defending a law. Time will tell, but I kind of see it like the marijuana laws where some states allow it, and others won't, but I think eventually the majority will succumb.
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Most Americans associate the exposure of certain body parts with secks and seck-shuality. And too many Americans view that exposure as permission to help themselves to those body parts, an invitation that can't be trumped by the words No! and Stop! and phrases such as "Get the hell away from me!"

It's going to take a lot more than a grass-roots movement to change that thinking.
 
Alligatorob said:
As I pointed out above that once could have been said about bare ankles. Don't you think if it were more common and less taboo things would change? We'd just get used to it.
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I do, but exposure alone won't accomplish that. A lot of things would have to change. For example, companies would have to stop using seks to sell. That's just for one. A change in thinking and attitude would take decades because a chronology of other changes would have to happen first. imo
 
Alligatorob said:
As I pointed out above that once could have been said about bare ankles. Don't you think if it were more common and less taboo things would change? We'd just get used to it.
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Murrmurr said:
I do, but exposure alone won't accomplish that. A lot of things would have to change. For example, companies would have to stop using seks to sell. That's just for one. A change in thinking and attitude would take decades because a chronology of other changes would have to happen first. imo
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Remember that skirts got shorter in the "roaring 20s," when the women's movement really kicked off. A lot was happening, women were starting to do a lot of things they hadn't done before...in public, anyway. Bobbing their hair, smoking, going out unescorted and girdle-less to dance and party....
 
Murrmurr said:
Most Americans associate the exposure of certain body parts with secks and seck-shuality. And too many Americans view that exposure as permission to help themselves to those body parts, an invitation that can't be trumped by the words No! and Stop! and phrases such as "Get the hell away from me!"

It's going to take a lot more than a grass-roots movement to change that thinking.
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Perhaps you may be right. Sometimes things change very slowly. I never thought I would see the fashions that Hollywood starlets wear with see-through dresses and plunging necklines that go clear to the navel (I would post pictures, but they would probably get tossed), but they wear them to awards and events. They leave almost nothing to the imagination. So, you never know. Times change.
 
Another overly broadly posed thread title.

topic title:
Should women be allowed to go topless?

Should be:
Should some women be allowed to go topless sometimes in some places?

There is a difference between being mostly naked on a popular public beach and walking into the county courthouse dressed so for your jury duty date or during a heat spell visiting a public pool full of young children. And numbers of unique situations between these extremes.

Generally I prefer women to cover up more with clothing more than in this current Western media driven era by "sex sells" driving all matter of telecom media. And that reality would only become more negative by allowing even more nudity and crude media. In any case, am a "Let It Be" person as long as whatever isn't against laws, annoying, a nuisance, or in your face.
 
bobcat48 said:
Perhaps you may be right. Sometimes things change very slowly. I never thought I would see the fashions that Hollywood starlets wear with see-through dresses and plunging necklines that go clear to the navel (I would post pictures, but they would probably get tossed), but they wear them to awards and events. They leave almost nothing to the imagination. So, you never know. Times change.
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And one could argue that those stars are sek-shualizing women's fashion whether the message is a tease, like "you can see but don't touch" or a statement, like "every woman has 'em; so what?" The reason being, those are not real bodies. By mechanisms or surgery, those are illusions.

Which brings to mind the full-body portrait that Jamie Lee Curtis published about a year ago, when she was 60-something. No illusions, nothing to do with seks, her message was about acceptance.
 
David777 said:
Another overly broadly posed thread title.

topic title:
Should women be allowed to go topless?

Should be:
Should some women be allowed to go topless sometimes in some places?

There is a difference between being mostly naked on a popular public beach and walking into the county courthouse dressed so for your jury duty date or during a heat spell visiting a public pool full of young children. And numbers of unique situations between these extremes.

Generally I prefer women to cover up more with clothing more than in this current Western media driven era by "sex sells" driving all matter of telecom media. And that reality would only become more negative by allowing even more nudity and crude media. In any case, am a "Let It Be" person as long as whatever isn't against laws, annoying, a nuisance, or in your face.
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None of those situations matter in societies that don't associate nudity with seks. They do exist.
 
Just my opinion but the older I get the more I realize that issues like this are whats wrong with the world. There are a lot of sick, stupid people out there that can screw things up royally. When I was a kid I was all over town by myself. Today if a kid walks home from school alone the parents get CPS called on them, and the kids get placed. And it's not because of the parents; it's because of some sick-o that ruined it for kids forever. People are just too selfish.

If people were respectful and mature there would be no problem with public nudity or many other issues. But there's always gonna be a "Clara Edwards" out there to be offended because you don't fit her idea of decency. I mean - jeez... have you never seen a boob before? Funny thing is... it's not the boob thats indecent - it's just the dark spot in the center. How stupid is that?

Opinion ended.
 
Murrmurr said:
Gaining a respectful attitude toward people's bodies? Like, accepting that bodies are not merely objects for the purpose of ones sek-shual fantasies and gratification.
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Truthfully, I would much rather see ladies dressed in nice clothes with their hair and cosmetics done properly. Call me old fashioned or a traditionalist, but having women dressed appropriately and the same for men just makes sense to me. Everyone doesn’t think or agree with me and that’s ok. To each his own.

We don’t wear clothes just to cover our nakedness. We wear clothes to keep warm and for appearances. It’s like going to a naturist community. After you are there for a few hours, everyone begins to look alike. You don’t even notice people’s nakedness.
 
Alligatorob said:
Or should society and government have any say in what people do or don't wear?

I think it has been an interesting and fun thread.
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There's a famous quote that says something like "a free society chooses its own destiny" ...or something like that.

In the US, we still have the right to wear whatever we want, or nothing at all, in our own homes. But I had to laugh reading posts about there being a time and place for nudity, because it made me think of a clothing-optional federal courtroom, leading me to think about how clothing-optional courtroom policy would effect jury selection, jury persuasion, the balance of justice.... 😂

Yeah, we're definitely not ready.
 
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