Shocking United States life expectancy decline

Michael Z said:
To more accurately make sense of this, one needs to look at cause of death statistics. Add to that, statistics on obesity and diet, if possible.
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That's what experts are looking at. There are 2 major research universities who are doing studies on this. I think one is Cornell and the other is either Stanford or Harvard....I don't remember.
 

StarSong said:
Nobody is automatically enrolled in Medicare. We have to sign up in order to be enrolled.

https://www.medicare.gov/basics/get-started-with-medicare
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Some employers do the singing up for their older employees.

Or, they used to. Maybe not anymore. But it was a thing while I was working years ago - you'd get these forms about your 401K and stuff, and in the packet was a form that let you know the company would automatically enroll you in medicare when you were 65, and then the company insurance would be your secondary. There was a document in there you had to sign if you didn't want them to do that.
 

Murrmurr said:
Some employers do the singing up for their older employees.

Or, they used to. Maybe not anymore. But it was a thing while I was working years ago - you'd get these forms about your 401K and stuff, and in the packet was a form that let you know the company would automatically enroll you in medicare when you were 65, and then the company insurance would be your secondary. There was a document in there you had to sign if you didn't want them to that.
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Interesting to know. Having been self-employed with no HR department, I needed to sign up.

If memory serves, it was through the SS website. One thing I know for sure is had I not signed up, I wouldn't have been enrolled.
 
StarSong said:
Nobody is forced to be on Medicare. American seniors are free to pay for doctor, hospital and pharmaceutical care out of pocket if they so choose. Most can't afford it and are grateful for Medicare, but it's certainly an option available to us.
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Wow, with all due respect, yes, we are. We are allowed to also keep private which thank God I did or you wouldn't have the displeasure of interacting with me today. They basically force or coerce if you will us to take Medicare. I was allowed to keep my private but had to have Medicare primary, them secondary. They pick up the thousands of dollars each year that Medicare doesn't cover. I'd be dead flat out if I had to rely on Medicare because I can't afford that. Next you'll be claiming co-pays are a good thing instead of recognizing them for what they are - a move to deter us from actually seeing our healthcare providers.

But to make this statement, kind of shows you to be disingenuous. Even if I were a billionnaire - and most of us are not and simply cannot afford to pay out of pocket and you darn well know it as does everyone who makes this uttrly bogus argument - most providers willl not even let you self-pay anymore. They refuse to see the uninsured except emergency rooms who have no choice. I've sat in doctors office and seen people plea please see me, I have thousands in the bank and am willing to pay to be told, we won't se you without insurance. I stopped going with the onsent of the Covid BS but prior to that my private literally picks up thousands every year that Medicare doesn't cover. Do now for my scripts which haven't yet been cut off. I still have to pay dental, hearing and eyesight out of pocket as well as my power chair becuase neither cover it.

We aren't "forced" is bull because we're given an ultimatim. Sign up for Medicare or be unable to get medical care. Just because they don't call it forced doesn't mean it's not. A skunk by any other name still lets out a rather nasty and unplesant odor. Pretty animal that no one wants to be around unless it's been de-perfumed.
 
hollydolly said:
we actually pay for our own Medical care in the form of Taxes which are taken from our salaries...
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Yes - all socialized medicine is paid for through taxes. I'm confused as to the point there. All those countries who, unlike the US, admit their medicine is socialized charge high taxes to pay for it. It's not free. Money to pay for it has to come from somewhere. How does the fact that it's taxed mean it's not socialized medicine. I've got news for you: we also pay for that other form of socialized medicine here in the US - Medicaid. Forced charity is not charity but theft.
 
Murrmurr said:
Blaze is talking about the advancement of medical technology, though. I think Canada is another leader in that field.
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Both but yes. It's our capitalist companies doing most of the research worldwide. Big Pharma and all that. Not that I trust them. I don't. See my admitted prejudice against doctors. It goes even more for Big Pharma - as the plandemic definitely proved it should.
 
Blaze Duskdreamer said:
Yes - all socialized medicine is paid for through taxes. I'm confused as to the point there. All those countries who, unlike the US, admit their medicine is socialized charge high taxes to pay for it. It's not free. Money to pay for it has to come from somewhere. How does the fact that it's taxed mean it's not socialized medicine. I've got news for you: we also pay for that other form of socialized medicine here in the US - Medicaid. Forced charity is not charity but theft.
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You've not ''got news for me''.... I never said it was NOT socialised medicine because it's taxed..I said we have socialised medicine because we pay taxes for it directly from our salaries...therefore no-one in this country is denied medical help due to not having Insurance or the correct insurance..or given medical bills for treatment they've had or yet to have because we have already paid for it...
 
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StarSong said:
Nobody is automatically enrolled in Medicare. We have to sign up in order to be enrolled.

https://www.medicare.gov/basics/get-started-with-medicare
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And we are told, sign up now or else. If you wait 'til later, your premiums will be extremely higher and if you don't sign up now, you will be denied insurance altogether.

Let me clarify. I'm a retired New York State employee so the private insurance I kept was that I had had for 20 years previous to my retirement 13 years ago on disability at age 52 so the premiums are low given New York State's large pool. I actually don't pay for my Medicare as, since health insurance is a benefit of being a New York State retiree, what Social Security deducts for Medicare, New York State adds back in but deducts my insurance premium which is actually less than Medicare monthly but yet covers far more; I just don't like it and wish I hadn't been forced on it as I preferred the excellent insurance I've had for decades. . Six months into that it was take Medicare or else. The State lets you keep the same premiums as employees in retirement if you never cancel it as you move from employment into retirement but Medicare has to be primary. That's from the State. From the Feds, you either have to sign up for it now or later. If you opt out, you will be punished for doing so. In searching for an article to link instead of expecting you to take my word for it, I also see that now they automatically enroll you. But you will never convince me this coercion is not really forcing:

Is Medicare mandatory?

From the article for those who don't want to wade through it (copy and pasted):
  • If you do not want to use Medicare, you can opt out, but you may lose other benefits.
  • People who decline Medicare coverage initially may have to pay a penalty if they decide to enroll in Medicare later.
Declining your Medicare Part A and Part B benefits completely is possible, but you are required to withdraw from all of your monthly benefits to do so. This means you can no longer receive Social Security or RRB benefits and must repay anything you have already received when you withdraw from the program.
 
hollydolly said:
You've not ''got news for me''.... I never said it was NOT socialised medicine because it's taxed..I said we have socialised medicine because we pay taxes for it directly from our salaries...therefore no-one in this ciuntry is denied medical help due to not having Insurance or the correct insurance..or given medical bills for treatment they've had or yet to have because we have already paid for it...
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Okay. I'm sorry for misunderstanding you. I thought it odd becuase you seem intelligent. Where we disagree is on whehter or not it should be. I think we should provide for those who cannot work but not those who will not. I don't think socialism ever truly works. People starve under socialism and our health care is abysmal because it has been largely socialized.
 
StarSong said:
Interesting to know. Having been self-employed with no HR department, I needed to sign up.

If memory serves, it was through the SS website. One thing I know for sure is had I not signed up, I wouldn't have been enrolled.
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Also, I just remembered; if you collect disability, you're auto-enrolled in Medicare when you're 65. And sometimes they switch you from SSDI to regular Soc-Sec, too. Depends on your disability, I guess?...idk.
 
Blaze Duskdreamer said:
Wow, with all due respect, yes, we are. We are allowed to also keep private which thank God I did or you wouldn't have the displeasure of interacting with me today. They basically force or coerce if you will us to take Medicare. I was allowed to keep my private but had to have Medicare primary, them secondary. They pick up the thousands of dollars each year that Medicare doesn't cover. I'd be dead flat out if I had to rely on Medicare because I can't afford that. Next you'll be claiming co-pays are a good thing instead of recognizing them for what they are - a move to deter us from actually seeing our healthcare providers.

But to make this statement, kind of shows you to be disingenuous. Even if I were a billionnaire - and most of us are not and simply cannot afford to pay out of pocket and you darn well know it as does everyone who makes this uttrly bogus argument - most providers willl not even let you self-pay anymore. They refuse to see the uninsured except emergency rooms who have no choice. I've sat in doctors office and seen people plea please see me, I have thousands in the bank and am willing to pay to be told, we won't se you without insurance. I stopped going with the onsent of the Covid BS but prior to that my private literally picks up thousands every year that Medicare doesn't cover. Do now for my scripts which haven't yet been cut off. I still have to pay dental, hearing and eyesight out of pocket as well as my power chair becuase neither cover it.

We aren't "forced" is bull because we're given an ultimatim. Sign up for Medicare or be unable to get medical care. Just because they don't call it forced doesn't mean it's not. A skunk by any other name still lets out a rather nasty and unplesant odor. Pretty animal that no one wants to be around unless it's been de-perfumed.
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I'm hardly disingenuous and quite frankly, you don't know me well enough to make such a sweeping judgment. As it happens, I'm fairly well versed in filing late for Medicare (using a special enrollment) without losing benefits or having to pay more later, but it's not relevant to this conversation since the State of NY apparently forced you into Medicare if you wanted to keep the other benefits they offered you. That's not true of all employers.

I'm sorry that you are suffering from so many ailments - it must be horrific for you.
 
hollydolly said:
Of course the one thing that the countries with the longest average lifespans have in common, is Socialised or subsidised medical care....
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As an Australian I second that. Actually, any country with affordable health care will have better longevity statistics.

Over time the generations of my family have continued to live longer. At the same time improvements to primary health care were taking place. Seniors and low income people here have the benefit of subsidised medical care and pharmaceuticals. Nevertheless, it is always the smokers who die first.
 
Warrigal said:
Nevertheless, it is always the smokers who die first.
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Indeed.

My father's parents lived into their early 90s (Medicare). My mother's mother died at age 71. She was obese, got little exercise due to a severe back injury in her 50s, didn't believe in doctors and refused to go to them. Sad to say, she succumbed to heart failure in the early 70s.

My parents both were healthy until quite close to the end. Both average weight, reasonably active, non-smokers. Mom was an only child and died at 92 Her (smoker) cousins died early, non-smokers were long lived. Dad's siblings didn't watch their weight and developed type 2 diabetes. All died younger than his 96 years.

My husband's family has similar health stories. Those who took good care of their bodies had longer, healthier lives. Those who didn't suffered much longer and had earlier exits.
 
Blaze Duskdreamer said:
Being forced on Medicare against my will is...
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Please tell us your story, as it sounds unique. Having paid into Social Security I wanted to take advantage of Medicare, since I paid for it. That, plus when I retired I no longer had the employer group insurance that I had become accustomed to in over 40 years. I still am with my healthcare provider, Medicare pays for that. The only difference is that now my co-pays are super low.
 
Nathan said:
Please tell us your story, as it sounds unique. Having paid into Social Security I wanted to take advantage of Medicare, since I paid for it. That, plus when I retired I no longer had the employer group insurance that I had become accustomed to in over 40 years. I still am with my healthcare provider, Medicare pays for that. The only difference is that now my co-pays are super low.
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Same for me. It sure took the sting out of turning 65! That said, I had two friends who opted to delay. Both worked for large companies and preferred their existing medical plans - and for both it was an option offered by their companies. When they retired (at 68 and 70 respectively), they enrolled in Medicare with no penalties.

https://www.healthline.com/health/medicare/medicare-and-employer-coverage#keeping-employer-benefits

Can I keep my employer health insurance with Medicare?​

If you’re receiving health insurance coverage from your current place of work but also qualify for Medicare, you may find yourself choosing between Medicare and your group health plan. In most cases, the size of the company where you work determines whether you’ll face penalties for not enrolling in Medicare when you’re eligible.

"If your employer has 20 or more employees: you can delay signing up without any late enrollment penalties in the future."
 
Medicare was never intended to pay all your health costs. That’s why you have a supplement plan.

People love to dismiss some diseases as lifestyle issues such as HBP when they can actually be genetic. Everyone on my mom’s side of the family got it between 31-51 despite doing everything right.

At 50 I was power walking 6-8 miles a day, hiking up mountains on the weekends, etc but started to feel terrible. I ended up in the hospital because they thought I was having a heart attack.

It turns out I had developed asthma, extremely HBP and a too fast erratic heart rate. They said I was lucky not to have had a stroke because of all the exercise. Medication has kept all 3 conditions under control for 19 years.

Luckily weight isn’t presently a problem for me but it’s complicated and people process food and calories differently. Metabolism really varies between people so it’s not just eating less. As murmur mentioned all the additives in our food is likely contributing to our health issues and weight issues. Good health is very complex.
 
Studies suggest that, on average, people with schizophrenia live around 10–20 years less than people without the condition, but this will depend on the individual.
Honestly I'll be glad when it is over.
 
StarSong said:
Interesting to know. Having been self-employed with no HR department, I needed to sign up.

If memory serves, it was through the SS website. One thing I know for sure is had I not signed up, I wouldn't have been enrolled.
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Well the other side of that coin is that when I hit 65, my private health insurance was automatically discontinued by my insurance company! Just..BAM, they cancelled the insurance and stopped the automatic withdrawals from my bank. No notification, no warning, nothing. Just cancelled.

It took me a couple months to realize and then when I called them demanding an explanation, they basically just said oops. You turned 65 so we cut it off! I had no intention of giving up my private insurance for a variety of reasons, and luckily they were quick to reinstate it.
 
Blaze Duskdreamer said:
we also pay for that other form of socialized medicine here in the US - Medicaid. Forced charity is not charity but theft.
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Repellent attitude in my view. Don't even care to discuss it. If you needed it, you wouldn't turn it down. Just like your probable heroine Ayn Rand. At the end, she begged for it. Pardon me if I'm wrong; just getting to know you.
 
Lets point out a few things about this group of statistics in general. First…the population numbers and death statistics have to be correct. Then there should be some correlation or adjustment for the current demographics (ie. Aging population) vs previous years. And then there should be adequate explanation as to causes of outcomes. To me the most glaring is maternal and infant deaths. United states always scores worse than many other countries. Why is THAT? Well… some of it has been the lack of socialized medicine. Argue if you will…but there are people who cant afford prenatal care…and not enough ob physicians to provide it. As our laws change regarding pregnancy i expect these numbers to worsen considerably. Yes…drug deaths and covid have affected those statistics. And drug deaths will continue to do so until the population of users drops below statistical significance. But folks…be kind and think about these numbers a bit.
 
Teacher Terry said:
People love to dismiss some diseases as lifestyle issues such as HBP when they can actually be genetic. Everyone on my mom’s side of the family got it between 31-51 despite doing everything right.
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Teacher Terry said:
Medicare was never intended to pay all your health costs. That’s why you have a supplement plan.
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Agree completely with the above.

I'll also add that it's not the fault of the doctor, hospital, big pharma, etc., when our bodies fail, whether due to advanced age, unfortunate spins of the genetics wheel, bad luck or poor choices. Or even the (warned about) damage that can be done to our organs by taking various medicines for many years. Most in the medical field do the best they can. They're not magicians nor are they perfect.

And I say this despite the pain of losing a younger sister in childhood due to a hospital mistake/negligence.
 
I lived to 88 so far and still have not contracted a terminal illness. I sleep 8 hours every night and drink 8 glasses of fruit juice every day. I also take a walking workout of 1 mile every day. I do NOT own a gun so cannot shoot anyone including myself. Finally, I've been married to a great woman for 63 years and she makes my food and takes care of my health.

I spend most of my days engaged with my PC playing chess at Chess.com and Civilization VI at Steam.com.

My Geriatrician told me he will NOT treat me for cancer or heart disease since most treatments damage the patients and many times kill them in the end.
 

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