Migrant boats in the Mediterranean: Why are so many people dying?

Sippican said:
No, its about the illegals coming across our borders by the millions. Its about crime, open borders, defund the police, its about a corrupt justice system that give preference to illegals and allows them to commit crimes over and over again.
And why are they allowing them across the border by the millions? They will be the next voting block.
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I was talking about the way gov't (mis-)manages it, which results in the downsides both of us listed....

...well, except, the justice system does not give "preference to illegals" and don't *allow* them to commit crimes again and again any more than they allow citizens to repeatedly offend.

If it's determined a person is here illegally, Homeland Security/INS orders the person to leave. If they are here illegally and convicted of a felony, they will sentence the person to a term in prison and then ensure they leave.

I don't know where you've made the connection between defund police and immigration, because there isn't one.

The US has always had open borders, though it has become more discerning than it was a few centuries ago. There's actually a list of countries whose people are not welcome.

And one more thing: In most elections, you can not vote unless you are a sworn citizen, and for most immigrants that process takes 12 to 15 years, at least.
 

Murrmurr said:
I was talking about the way gov't (mis-)manages it, which results in the downsides both of us listed....

...well, except, the justice system does not give "preference to illegals" and don't *allow* them to commit crimes again and again any more than they allow citizens to repeatedly offend.

If it's determined a person is here illegally, Homeland Security/INS orders the person to leave. If they are here illegally and convicted of a felony, they will sentence the person to a term in prison and then ensure they leave.

I don't know where you've made the connection between defund police and immigration, because there isn't one.

The US has always had open borders, though it has become more discerning than it was a few centuries ago. There's actually a list of countries whose people are not welcome.

And one more thing: In most elections, you can not vote unless you are a sworn citizen, and for most immigrants that process takes 12 to 15 years, at least.
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"If it's determined a person is here illegally, Homeland Security/INS orders the person to leave. If they are here illegally and convicted of a felony, they will sentence the person to a term in prison and then ensure they leave."...so, you are saying al other crimes are acceptable for illegals to commit, just not felonies?

The US has not 'always had open borders'. That is false. There is a process that is being circumvented to allow lawful access to the country. Don't know where you get your info from but clearly not accurate. Although we do give millions to other countries to protect their borders. Funny how that happens.

"And one more thing: In most elections, you can not vote unless you are a sworn citizen, and for most immigrants that process takes 12 to 15 years, at least." Again false...See link below
Immigration status doesn't stop people from voting

Also,
The District of Columbia and municipalities in three states allowed noncitizens to vote in local elections as of June 2023: California, Maryland, and Vermont.

According to the Pew Research Center, there were over 25 million noncitizens living in the U.S. as of 2020. That included approximately 12 million permanent residents and 2 million temporary residents who were in the country with legal permission, as well as approximately 11 million immigrants who resided in the country without legal permission.[3]
 
I have a suggestion for every citizen ... write your congress person and senators ..
those in office or working for government take oath to defend the LAWS on the country but each day they do not send people back or close the holes at border .........they are in conflict with their oath.
So many politicians say things like that are working in jobs Americans do not want... or are just hard working folks. irrelavent as the already BROKE the law entering without going through the immigration process ....
HOW are they working .. (work visas are temporary until paperwork case is heard) with 80% denied what happens employer is not notified visa is no good now

The three ways to work are ALL felonies ....
#1
stolen ID / SSN that is why some # show we have many workers out there over 112 yrs old
#2
Fake ssn / papers ... hold the employers responsible
#3
under the table tax evasion.

i emailed my senators asked them to chose what felony they support ( against their oath of office) ..... not holding my breath for response...
look at news several criminals have been deported several times ....meaning they were told .... LEAVE or we will ask you to leave again

Countries asking for AID so they keep their people there is EXTORTION nothing else... and it is not working we pay they still come.
 
Fake SSN's do not give their users their refunds. Paying into our system with no refunds. Told just clarification purposes.
 
Sippican said:
"If it's determined a person is here illegally, Homeland Security/INS orders the person to leave. If they are here illegally and convicted of a felony, they will sentence the person to a term in prison and then ensure they leave."...so, you are saying al other crimes are acceptable for illegals to commit, just not felonies?

The US has not 'always had open borders'. That is false. There is a process that is being circumvented to allow lawful access to the country. Don't know where you get your info from but clearly not accurate. Although we do give millions to other countries to protect their borders. Funny how that happens.

"And one more thing: In most elections, you can not vote unless you are a sworn citizen, and for most immigrants that process takes 12 to 15 years, at least." Again false...See link below
Immigration status doesn't stop people from voting

Also,
The District of Columbia and municipalities in three states allowed noncitizens to vote in local elections as of June 2023: California, Maryland, and Vermont.

According to the Pew Research Center, there were over 25 million noncitizens living in the U.S. as of 2020. That included approximately 12 million permanent residents and 2 million temporary residents who were in the country with legal permission, as well as approximately 11 million immigrants who resided in the country without legal permission.[3]
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Note I said "In most elections..."

Non-felony convictions usually get you time in jail, not prison.

The legal immigration process takes an average of 14 years, though the process has gotten even longer since the COVID pandemic.

As for open borders, I said "a few centuries ago."

We do indeed give millions per year to some countries, and in most cases it's wiser (not funnier) than not giving them millions. That money comes with strings attached.
 
Murrmurr said:
Note I said "In most elections..."

Non-felony convictions usually get you time in jail, not prison.

The legal immigration process takes an average of 14 years, though the process has gotten even longer since the COVID pandemic.

As for open borders, I said "a few centuries ago."

We do indeed give millions per year to some countries, and in most cases it's wiser (not funnier) than not giving them millions. That money comes with strings attached.
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Ahh, playing with words to 'try' to make your point...words matter.
I pointed out where it is law, but there are millions of others voting that don't have to prove their 'status'. Think about when you vote. Most places only require a drivers license and an address. NO ONE ask for immigration status. So you can cite all the laws you want, but the reality is laws are being broken.

But you pass off your views as current factual information.
You are playing with words and not describing real time, today, things that are happening.....'a few centuries ago?' really, that is your justification for open borders now?

So what strings are attached?
I'm sure you can cite some budget item, proposal, but what is the reality of what happens with the money? Lining politicians pockets in countries more corrupt than the US.
 
Some might be surprised by how border patrol encounters with migrants who have crossed the southern border illegally have increased in the last 3 years.

U.S. Border Patrol Total Encounters2 were 646,822 in 2020, 1,956,519 in 2021, 2,766,582 in 2022, 2,310,987 so far in 2023. 7 million people is a lot of people. https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics

In 2022 only 15 US states had more than 7 million people. https://www.statsamerica.org/sip/rank_list.aspx?rank_label=pop1

Border cities have been swamped for a long time but it's becoming a problem everywhere. People come without jobs, medical care, shelter, school is mandatory for their children and who pays for all these things? If you pay taxes you do, if you don't pay taxes and need government help money for immigrants is being put before money for needy citizens in some locations.

Most come without vetting and have no tracking once they are here. They come from all over the world, not just Mexico. Most are likely not criminals (before breaking the law to enter) based on past records but maybe that is different now that is known world wide that they can just come in.

In some places schools are being used to house them. Where do our kids go when school starts soon? There was one big flap about repurposing the kids soccer fields to erect tents for immigrants. There are so many stories and not covered at all by much of the media.

What I've said here is facts, not politics, truth that has been ongoing and is still ongoing.
 
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Sippican said:
Ahh, playing with words to 'try' to make your point...words matter.
I pointed out where it is law, but there are millions of others voting that don't have to prove their 'status'. Think about when you vote. Most places only require a drivers license and an address. NO ONE ask for immigration status. So you can cite all the laws you want, but the reality is laws are being broken.

But you pass off your views as current factual information.
You are playing with words and not describing real time, today, things that are happening.....'a few centuries ago?' really, that is your justification for open borders now?

So what strings are attached?
I'm sure you can cite some budget item, proposal, but what is the reality of what happens with the money? Lining politicians pockets in countries more corrupt than the US.
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Those are the words I used in my original comment. I chose them because I know the facts. If you'd read more carefully, maybe you wouldn't have argued certain parts, but I'm making an assumption there.
 
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Illegal USA immigration and world overpopulation are my greatest issues of concern. I do not expect politicians will do anything to change that in my remaining lifetime as long as our public ignores holding them accountable while Wall Street corporations for the sake of profits make sure it stays that way. Our borders could easily be plugged. Visa overstays could easily be eliminated. Technology for employer verification has been around for years but without a will to follow through.
 
David777 said:
Illegal USA immigration and world overpopulation are my greatest issues of concern. I do not expect politicians will do anything to change that in my remaining lifetime as long as our public ignores holding them accountable while Wall Street corporations for the sake of profits make sure it stays that way. Our borders could easily be plugged. Visa overstays could easily be eliminated. Technology for employer verification has been around for years but without a will to follow through.
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I worked with a guy from Syria who intentionally over-stayed his visitors visa. He got a letter from the INS within 2 weeks of the visa expiration date (this was before 9-11), but all it said was that he'd failed to leave by the expire date, and he must arrange passage home within 2 weeks.

A whole year went by before he got another letter saying basically the same thing, and he finally hired an immigration attorney. Well he could afford an attorney after working steadily for an entire year.
 
Pepper said:
Fake SSN's do not give their users their refunds. Paying into our system with no refunds. Told just clarification purposes.
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small irs refunds are not that big of deal but....

The biggest windfall for gov. is hundreds of thousands "mismatched or bogus ssn " paying INTO the social security system with zero chance of ever being paid out.
 
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Murrmurr said:
Those are the words I used in my original comment. I chose them because I know the facts. If you'd read more carefully, maybe you wouldn't have argued certain parts, but I'm making an assumption there.
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Oh, now I get it....you live in La La land, in one of the most corrupt political cities in the country. Of course you would parse your words carefully and not in line with reality....now it all makes sense. The blurred lines of fantasy vs. reality start in Sacramento.
 
Jeni said:
I have a suggestion for every citizen ... write your congress person and senators ..
those in office or working for government take oath to defend the LAWS on the country but each day they do not send people back or close the holes at border .........they are in conflict with their oath.
So many politicians say things like that are working in jobs Americans do not want... or are just hard working folks. irrelavent as the already BROKE the law entering without going through the immigration process ....
HOW are they working .. (work visas are temporary until paperwork case is heard) with 80% denied what happens employer is not notified visa is no good now

The three ways to work are ALL felonies ....
#1
stolen ID / SSN that is why some # show we have many workers out there over 112 yrs old
#2
Fake ssn / papers ... hold the employers responsible
#3
under the table tax evasion.

i emailed my senators asked them to chose what felony they support ( against their oath of office) ..... not holding my breath for response...
look at news several criminals have been deported several times ....meaning they were told .... LEAVE or we will ask you to leave again

Countries asking for AID so they keep their people there is EXTORTION nothing else... and it is not working we pay they still come.
Click to expand...
My writing Chuckie Schumer will really have any effect at all other than my being put on a watch list. Yeah, right.

When I got back to NY, I wrote the then Governor questiioning something, small issue, and it was a very politely worded and researched letter, pointing out something I disagreed with. A state trooper showed up at my apartment door with my 12yo watching to explain the Governor's position to me. He was roughly the size of Shaq. When I asked but what, his hand hovered near his gun. Since I didn't want to be blown away, especially not in front of my daughter, I hastily said well thank you for coming, officer. I appreciate your taking the trouble. Have a nice day. Said governor was later accused of using state troopers for his personal chauffeurs and bodyguards.

I have moved many times since then but been in my current apartment for a decade which is an utter record for me and a testament that I love my apartment. You think I want to repeat this mistake with that evil bastard Chuckie?

chuckies real.jpg
 
Blaze Duskdreamer said:
My writing Chuckie Schumer will really have any effect at all other than my being put on a watch list. Yeah, right.

When I got back to NY, I wrote the then Governor questiioning something, small issue, and it was a very politely worded and researched letter, pointing out something I disagreed with. A state trooper showed up at my apartment door with my 12yo watching to explain the Governor's position to me. He was roughly the size of Shaq. When I asked but what, his hand hovered near his gun. Since I didn't want to be blown away, especially not in front of my daughter, I hastily said well thank you for coming, officer. I appreciate your taking the trouble. Have a nice day. Said governor was later accused of using state troopers for his personal chauffeurs and bodyguards.

I have moved many times since then but been in my current apartment for a decade which is an utter record for me and a testament that I love my apartment. You think I want to repeat this mistake with that evil bastard Chuckie?

View attachment 299674
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wow ..... nothing like that has ever happened when the really disagree with me i get the obligatory form letter response but have had a conversation a few times with congress woman about things....
 
Jeni said:
wow ..... nothing like that has ever happened when the really disagree with me i get the obligatory form letter response but have had a conversation a few times with congress woman about things....
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Lucky you but if I bother after that, it's anonymoously and we all know how seriously they take that but my larger point is Chuckie isn't going to listen anyway. That man has an agenda and my views aren't on it and aren't worth noting as far as he's concerned. The pointlessness of writing your elected representatives is the point. Maybe they listen in flyover country - I don't know; I don't live there - but they sure don't in blue states. Why would they? They can just pump them full of illegal voters and have the dead vote to retain power.
 
More people are dying because there are more people and many of those people want to come to Europe or North America. The problem will not go away but it will increase and increase as the world's population increases and those hot fires keep burning and the supply of food gets less and less. Those crazy dictators in some countries don't help at all! It's, unfortunately, the sign of the times and the future of the human race.
 
Blaze Duskdreamer said:
Lucky you but if I bother after that, it's anonymoously and we all know how seriously they take that but my larger point is Chuckie isn't going to listen anyway. That man has an agenda and my views aren't on it and aren't worth noting as far as he's concerned. The pointlessness of writing your elected representatives is the point. Maybe they listen in flyover country - I don't know; I don't live there - but they sure don't in blue states. Why would they? They can just pump them full of illegal voters and have the dead vote to retain power.
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I may have the only representative that actually does what I want to see done. But he is the only representation I have. The others who are supposed to be representing me aren't worth warm spit.
 
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