Shouldn't animal abusers always go to prison?

hollydolly said:
..but in reality the terrible thing is...child abusers and killers particularly women in this country, once they've finished their sentences are given a new Identity.. and a new place to live where no-one knows them...all at the high cost to the Tax payer... and if any member of the public outs them.. they're arrested..
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You're kidding!!! The only people in the US who are issued new identities by the government tend to be mob or gang members who testify against their former brothers and sisters in crime. Sometimes victims of spousal abuse and occasionally people whose identities have been stolen and the problem is inescapable.

But child abusers protected in this way? Nope. Quite the opposite. Convicted sex offenders have to register and their presence, including address, is public knowledge.
 

Nathan said:
Drugs are readily available in prisons, "where there's a will there's a way". Society is worse off by sending drug offenders to prison, where they become hardened, and eventually part of the criminal element.
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Especially the young people. They learn their trade better from the veterans how to steal and perfect their criminal skills better. They also learn how to deal with cops and how to lie better. The young ones go into jail as amateurs and come out as professionals.

Speaking of animals. The state police seldom deal with animal protection laws. Usually that goes to the local PD or if their area has no protection, they can call the closest PD and they would handle it. I was driving on the highway when I noticed a male about 15 y/o dragging a dog on a leash, so I pulled over and asked the young man if I could help. He said the dog was old and his dad wanted him to take him out to the woods area, which was about another 150 yards ahead of us and shoot the dog and bury him.

There’s no law against that, but I asked the young man if he was sure the dog wasn’t just sick. He said he didn’t know and was just doing what his dad told him to do. I told him I wanted to talk to his dad. I put the dog on the back seat and the kid sat back there with the dog. After I spoke to the dad, he said the dog was old and sick and ready to die. I took the dog to a Vet up the road that I dealt with a few other times and asked him if he could tell me if the dog was sick.

He checked out the dog and said he thought the dog was about 10-12 y/o, but was severely dehydrated and malnourished. I asked the young man when he fed him last and he said he couldn’t remember.

I took the dog home, fed him and gave him water and in less than a week, the dog was doing fine. I gave the dog to the local SPCA who adopted him out almost right away. The dog was a pure bred Beagle. I was glad someone picked him up because I told the lady at the SPCA if no one took him, I would adopt him. My wife was OK with that because Beagles are her favorite breed. I was kind if looking forward to getting the dog.

I also investigated an accident involving an Amish buggy and a pickup truck. The pickup truck was passing the buggy when he struck the horse causing him to rear up and turn the buggy over. The buggy’s driver was hurt and had to be transported to the hospital. The horse was examined by the Vet and we were told the horse needed to be euthanized. That was a shame. The Amish driver did recover.
 
Old Salt said:
I agree wholeheartedly but have really had a battle with my conscience lately because our slaughter houses are killing animals as well. By the million! I know they do it more humanely but wish I didn't enjoy meat so much! Sorry for side lining the subject.
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I keep remembering the horrible conditions some mass beef, pork, and chicken "factories" treat the animals. It is unbelievable. I guess the prosecution limit for cruelty is up to and including "5 people". The food industry gets a pass.


There are plenty more. Where is the outrage that we consumers should show for this horrible way to bring us our meat?😡
 

Paco Dennis said:
I keep remembering the horrible conditions some mass beef, pork, and chicken "factories" treat the animals. It is unbelievable. I guess the prosecution limit for cruelty is up to and including "5 people". The food industry gets a pass.


There are plenty more. Where is the outrage that we consumers should show for this horrible way to bring us our meat. 😡
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Animal cruelty is a prime reason I stopped eating meat, have fish perhaps once a month, and cut waaay back on dairy, many years ago.

Factory farming, the livestock industry, and massive dairy farms are typically cruel beyond measure. It's been said that if slaughterhouses had glass walls we'd all be vegetarians.

As shown in the film Paco Dennis linked above, their practices are sickening horror stories even Stephen King couldn't/wouldn't write. :( :mad::sick:
 
StarSong said:
Animal cruelty is a prime reason I stopped eating meat, have fish perhaps once a month, and cut waaay back on dairy, many years ago.

Factory farming, the livestock industry, and massive dairy farms are typically cruel beyond measure. It's been said that if slaughterhouses had glass walls we'd all be vegetarians.

As shown in the film Paco Dennis linked above, their practices are sickening horror stories even Stephen King couldn't/wouldn't write. :( :mad::sick:
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Sorry, I am afraid I can't bear to watch the video. I watched a similar one about industrial chicken farming and was sickened by it. One question, since you seem to be a person in the know. Why not dairy products? What's cruel about milking a cow? Or drinking milk, or eating butter or cheese? Vegans also don't eat eggs. There again I wonder and would love for someone to clue me in. Best I can do at the moment is to reduce my meat eating to once a week, but I couldn't do without my eggs!
 
mrstime said:
I believe that child molesters should be given the death penalty. I do not believe anyone else deserves the DP. There is no cure for child molesters.
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I am against the death penalty in every and all cases, but I would incarcerate the pervert until his libido has gotten up and left so that he can no longer do any harm! In other words a life sentence! I love children and the thought of any of them being hurt makes me furious, outraged, disgusted .. there are not enough words in the dictionary!
 
Old Salt said:
I am against the death penalty in every and all cases, but I would incarcerate the pervert until his libido has gotten up and left so that he can no longer do any harm! In other words a life sentence! I love children and the thought of any of them being hurt makes me furious, outraged, disgusted .. there are not enough words in the dictionary!
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I almost always agree with you but I have to point out that a lot of the repeat child abusers are very old men. Apparently their libido doesn't get up and go.
 
hollydolly said:
..but in reality the terrible thing is...child abusers and killers particularly women in this country, once they've finished their sentences are given a new Identity.. and a new place to live where no-one knows them...all at the high cost to the Tax payer... and if any member of the public outs them.. they're arrested..
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That is horrifying and ridiculous at the same time, HD! Who put those clowns in charge? They are all insane in their PCness!
 
StarSong said:
You're kidding!!! The only people in the US who are issued new identities by the government tend to be mob or gang members who testify against their former brothers and sisters in crime. Sometimes victims of spousal abuse and occasionally people whose identities have been stolen and the problem is inescapable.

But child abusers protected in this way? Nope. Quite the opposite. Convicted sex offenders have to register and their presence, including address, is public knowledge.
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Sadly..no I'm not kidding... I wish it were so.... they do have to register with the police at the new address they're given, with their new ID, because of course they're usually on licence for the rest of their lives....

but if a member of the public rumbles that the mother who killed her child.. or the bloke at the pub is the one who raped the children in another part of the country is really Joe smith and not Roger Williams as he professes to be or sue smith, instead of the murderer Jane jones .. then that member of the public faces prison...if he or she reveals the new name....:(
 
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Old Salt said:
I wasn't aware of that, Myrtle! In that case true life until death, if there is such a thing!
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After thinking about this I realized that's my impression.

Statistics may not uphold "a lot". According to Statista: In 2021, most perpetrators in child abuse cases in the United States were between the ages of 25 and 34 years old, with 182,800 perpetrators. In that same year, about 1,239 perpetrators were 75 years and older, and about 8,083 perpetrators of child abuse were of unknown age.

That sounds like a lot to me.

In our area all convicted sex abusers must register and their names, pictures and address are published. I think I've seen a lot of white hair but I don't want to give a false impression. Next time I'll look it up before I announce it. :rolleyes:
 
Old Salt said:
Sorry, I am afraid I can't bear to watch the video. I watched a similar one about industrial chicken farming and was sickened by it. One question, since you seem to be a person in the know. Why not dairy products? What's cruel about milking a cow? Or drinking milk, or eating butter or cheese? Vegans also don't eat eggs. There again I wonder and would love for someone to clue me in. Best I can do at the moment is to reduce my meat eating to once a week, but I couldn't do without my eggs!
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I follow a plant-based diet for health and animal cruelty concerns.

Commercial dairies are far from idyllic scenes of small clusters of grazing cows on acres of grassy fields. Large commercial dairies focus on maximizing profits, primarily through economy of scale and getting more bang for the buck, or in this case, more milk from the cows.

They live in factory like conditions with concentrated feed, drugs including growth hormones and antibiotics, mechanization, and frequent pregnancy (with calves removed from their mothers within a couple of days). Cows have a 9 month gestation period and are artificially inseminated so they'll deliver a calf every year. Gotta keep that milk flowing, you know.

Male calves are dispatched to be raised for veal/beef. Females follow the footsteps of their mothers.

A cow's natural life is roughly 20 years. Dairy cows average a 5 year or less lifespan due to the stress of constant lactation (at a rate of 5-6X of what they'd feed a calf), food unnatural to them (grazing is sooo inefficient but is what their bodies are designed to eat) and diseases from cramped quarters.

In the US some 75% of cows have no access to pastures.

In addition to all the above, dairy products are high in cholesterol. We drink almond and oat milk, as do our kids and grands. Yes, I consume some eggs, cheese and butter, particularly around the holidays via homemade pizza and cookies, but when there are good non-animal options, I use them.
 
StarSong said:
I follow a plant-based diet for health and animal cruelty concerns.

Commercial dairies are far from idyllic scenes of small clusters of grazing cows on acres of grassy fields. Large commercial dairies focus on maximizing profits, primarily through economy of scale and getting more bang for the buck, or in this case, more milk from the cows.

They live in factory like conditions with concentrated feed, drugs including growth hormones and antibiotics, mechanization, and frequent pregnancy (with calves removed from their mothers within a couple of days). Cows have a 9 month gestation period and are artificially inseminated so they'll deliver a calf every year. Gotta keep that milk flowing, you know.

Male calves are dispatched to be raised for veal/beef. Females follow the footsteps of their mothers.

A cow's natural life is roughly 20 years. Dairy cows average a 5 year or less lifespan due to the stress of constant lactation (at a rate of 5-6X of what they'd feed a calf), food unnatural to them (grazing is sooo inefficient but is what their bodies are designed to eat) and diseases from cramped quarters.

In the US some 75% of cows have no access to pastures.

In addition to all the above, dairy products are high in cholesterol. We drink almond and oat milk, as do our kids and grands. Yes, I consume some eggs, cheese and butter, particularly around the holidays via homemade pizza and cookies, but when there are good non-animal options, I use them.
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Thanks for your very thorough explanation, @StarSong I lived for ten years in a parsonage right next to a dairy farm and saw the cattle being herded out to pasture and back for milking every day! I thought it was idyllic, never seeing the greater picture, so I appreciate your effort to clue me in!
 
Myrtle said:
After thinking about this I realized that's my impression.

Statistics may not uphold "a lot". According to Statista: In 2021, most perpetrators in child abuse cases in the United States were between the ages of 25 and 34 years old, with 182,800 perpetrators. In that same year, about 1,239 perpetrators were 75 years and older, and about 8,083 perpetrators of child abuse were of unknown age.

That sounds like a lot to me.

In our area all convicted sex abusers must register and their names, pictures and address are published. I think I've seen a lot of white hair but I don't want to give a false impression. Next time I'll look it up before I announce it. :rolleyes:
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In our area the local news will reveal the name and location of a sex offender once he's released, in order to give the neighbours a heads up!
 
Old Salt said:
Thanks for your very thorough explanation, @StarSong I lived for ten years in a parsonage right next to a dairy farm and saw the cattle being herded out to pasture and back for milking every day! I thought it was idyllic, never seeing the greater picture, so I appreciate your effort to clue me in!
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If you were near a small dairy farm (under 100 cows), it may have been idyllic. I'm referring to the large operations that provide the lion's share of dairy products in the US. Cows raised for beef are in a similarly dreadful predicament. Pigs and chickens have it even worse.
 
StarSong said:
If you were near a small dairy farm (under 100 cows), it may have been idyllic. I'm referring to the large operations that provide the lion's share of dairy products in the US. Cows raised for beef are in a similarly dreadful predicament. Pigs and chickens have it even worse.
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In Nova Scotia there were no large operations that I was aware of. A dairy truck would come by daily and collect milk from similar small farms. Maybe there are Government subsidies that support the small guys, in order to keep family farms alive! In any case, your report is very disturbing and enlightening!
 
Old Salt said:
My daughter tells me veggie burgers are quite tasty. Have you tried them yet? I am on the verge of becoming a vegetarian. Vegan is still too radical for me!
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my husband is Vegan... he started off from meat eating to vegetarianism.. then ultimately vegan. He east the plant based steaks and the occasional plant based burgers ... he says they're as delicious as meat ones... he urged me to taste one.. I had to disagree with him..I didn't like them at all, but hey, he vapes as well so maybe he doesn't have any taste buds left...

However I think if like him you smear them in sauces.. then they probably do taste absolutely fine
 
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