A bleak topic, but do you have a plan if the **** hits the fan (Besides duck)

[gruntlabor]

Yes. I don't think there's ever a ceiling on education. One thing the net has ushered in is complete disregard to sources and truth. It seems hardly anyone wants to do even a tiny bit of research into who is writing something, broadcasting it, or telling the tale. It just all gets taken in an digested. It means half or more what some people believe is demonstrably false, but they don't even care. Looks at the constant attacks on science, as though there's a better alternative to the scientific process. Madness.

But yes, education can help. The trouble is, we have schools these days that don't want to teach evolution, or insist creationism is taught alongside it as though they're somehow equal theories. I just can't quite get my head around it, I'm afraid. But then, we're old.

Today, science is as corrupt as politics.

 

[Knight]

1.Nuclear winter
2.deadly pandemic
3.societal revolt

No control over those, so if still alive would have to assess what control/options I have.

 

[Feelslikefar]

Yesterday I went to the kitchen to make some coffee, turned on the tap,
and no water.

No water anywhere in the house.

Walked down the drive to see an open fire hydrant and men working down our
street.
Took them about 6 hours to restore our water.

Realized I have a generator and fuel enough for a while, pantry full,
but I don't have an emergency stash of water for simple things like flushing
toilets, etc.

When we lived in California, with earthquakes and such, I always kept a barrel
for just such emergencies, along with bottled water.

Time to get back in the habit of normal prepping.

 

[Been There]

What kind of Marine would I be if I didn’t have a plan for most any egregious situation? I didn’t have a plan for what happened last night.

Did you ever go or even hear about a midnight wedding? Last night about 11 o’clock, I was thinking about making a drink and going to bed when the phone rang. A woman from up the street who is at least 10 years younger than me called and asked me to go to a wedding with her. I was shocked. I asked her when. She said now. I thought this was a joke. I asked her what was she talking about? She said it’s a midnight wedding, which I never heard of before. I asked her how she got my phone number. She wouldn’t tell me, but I think I know.

I then asked her what do I have to do. She said nothing, except show up. I asked if I needed to wear a suit. She said no, but it would be nice. OK, what the heck, I’ll go. I still couldn’t figure out why she called me unless I was at the bottom of the list. She said I was the second person she called. The wedding ceremony took about 15 minutes. The ceremony started at 11:45 and the Pastor pronounced them husband and wife as the clock struck 12. One of the weirdest things I was ever involved in.

After that, we ate. You want to guess what we had to eat? Eggs, pancakes and pastries. I asked the man sitting next to me if he had ever been involved in one of these types of weddings before? He said “No, but isn’t it fun?” I figured him to be a nut job. No, it wasn’t fun. I didn’t get to bed until almost 3 in the morning. I sometimes ask myself “Why do I get myself involved in stupid crap like this?”

 

[Avon]

got any photos??

Of course, we had the Morrison Shelter which fitted in the kitchen and was issued to all families. Hope you do not find it too pornographic to view. Fathers sleeping with teenage daughters would never be allowed these days, they would be definate perverts. Also, handy hints are available to keep warm in the Anderson Shelters which went in the garden.

 

[bobcat]

Sorry to hear that, Murmur. I've worked in many businesses that have KPI's (key performance indicators). That is, success of failure was measured by specific criteria. I've never seen it do good.

I'll give you a real world example. There was a KPI in the NHS here that basically counted the speed at which someone was seen when visiting Emergency. Sounds reasonable, but what was the end result? The end result was, they moved in an admin person to process patients, they had nurses see them initially, and then quickly moved those that needed it to beds placed in corridors. The net result being, people got "seen" far more quickly. Numbers were great, and everyone was happy. But the time it took for these patients to get actual treatments got WORSE. But hey, the KPI didn't specify.......

It'd difficult. So many choices are made because people are funneled into things. If you have a poor education - for whatever reason - then earning a grand a day selling drugs is a godsend. They won't ever have a career, and jail is an occupational hazard. I totally see their point (though I'd never sell drugs!) Poverty breeds crime. Not so much because those in poverty are bad people, but because their choices are limited. They're excluded from the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps".

Sadly, your nephew will need a miracle to truly recover, and he may never manage it. I wish it were otherwise.

Well said, and sad but true.

 

[Murrmurr]

Well said, and sad but true.

Except I would argue that a lack of education breeds crime, not poverty.

In the "West," there are many avenues for overcoming poverty, and everyone has access to them. It's far more difficult to overcome a lack of education, usually because, by the time one is suffering due to a lack of education, they are in poverty, so they're facing both challenges simultaneously.

Those people often just give up.

 

[Avon]

Except I would argue that a lack of education breeds crime, not poverty.

In the "West," there are many avenues for overcoming poverty, and everyone has access to them. It's far more difficult to overcome a lack of education, usually because, by the time one is suffering due to a lack of education, they are in poverty, so they're facing both challenges simultaneously.

Those people often just give up.

I had zero education due to the war. At age 50 following an accident and major back surgery, I had to quit my job of 33 years as I was unable to walk. At the same point in time, I lost my wife and my home, making me broke and homeless, never to work again. I managed as still signed off sick to get a mortgage on a derelict old cottage in the Welsh Mountains with water running through the walls, and I sure ain't broke now.

 

[Old Salt]

Yes. I don't think there's ever a ceiling on education. One thing the net has ushered in is complete disregard to sources and truth. It seems hardly anyone wants to do even a tiny bit of research into who is writing something, broadcasting it, or telling the tale. It just all gets taken in an digested. It means half or more what some people believe is demonstrably false, but they don't even care. Looks at the constant attacks on science, as though there's a better alternative to the scientific process. Madness.

But yes, education can help. The trouble is, we have schools these days that don't want to teach evolution, or insist creationism is taught alongside it as though they're somehow equal theories. I just can't quite get my head around it, I'm afraid. But then, we're old.

Excerpt from Teen Vogue and pertinent to your remarks since we discussed this recently in another thread!
11 of the Most Popular Conspiracy Theories in History

"Conspiracies about the novel coronavirus are a dime a dozen: The vaccine implants a microchip used to track people; the fatality rate has been wildly inflated; oh, and Bill Gates is not only responsible for the virus but also the head of a plot to use the virus as population control.

Are you tired yet? I am.

These theories have been debunked repeatedly, yet they persist. That might have something to do with then-president Donald Trump saying the virus was no more deadly than the flu and would one day “disappear, like a miracle” without the need for a vaccine.

Or it could be related to some Republican lawmakers who floated the idea that COVID could be a Chinese “bioweapon.”

Or it could just be that, in a time of historic political polarization, this country was uniquely ill-suited to deal with a catastrophic pandemic that has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans.

Take your pick (and get your vaccine, if you’re able)."

 

[VaughanJB]

Except I would argue that a lack of education breeds crime, not poverty.

In the "West," there are many avenues for overcoming poverty, and everyone has access to them. It's far more difficult to overcome a lack of education, usually because, by the time one is suffering due to a lack of education, they are in poverty, so they're facing both challenges simultaneously.

Those people often just give up.

Hm. We have to survive. We have to eat, have shelter, and since we don't want to live at fear of being murdered in the night we need protection. In the complete absence of everything we call civilization, then sure. At the same time, we can water that down and consider it as a lack of opportunity. I won't bore you (and everyone else) with the numbers, because I think you already know them, but if you're say, black, then generally you're not getting the same opportunities at any stage of your life. It follows all the way from birth, to nurture, to education and old age. You'll statistically lag behind whites. What do you think that breeds? Resentment? Jealousy, perhaps? Anger?

If I'm living in a city where there are fast cars, fast women, fancy restaurants and gold necklaces, could I ever be content with standing on the corner selling newspapers? I think at say, 70 years old - yes. At 14? No. There's only so much of nothing one can take.

Personally I think the problems are due to inequity along with the breakdown of the family unit. It's a moral compass that is often missing. Fatherless families, being brought up in the tenements on social security payments is a drudgery and stain that lasts forever. An education sounds great in the long term, but when you didn't eat yesterday it can quickly take a back seat. Then we have constant, in your face, mantra that money is everything, money is success, money is freedom mentality. Well, who are we kidding, the fastest way to that is selling drugs. Of course, we know what goes along with that, but not everyone lives with a view farther than tomorrow.

I'm not sure how a lack of education doesn't breed poverty, as you say. You say crime, but for me the two are intrinsically linked. When I look at a lot of what's going on in the US today, I see a whole lot of people with educations making some very very bad decisions.

 

[JustBonee]

Since in reality there’s not much that I could do, I mostly refuse to plan for a sky-is-falling scenario. It’s easier on my nerves.

I'm with you on that. ... As the years go by, we are forever being warned of "the end" ... I remember the same talk back in 1950 as a little kid.

I just cannot get worked up over all the doom talk.


When we are all gone, the Earth will still be here.

 

[Murrmurr]

I had zero education due to the war. At age 50 following an accident and major back surgery, I had to quit my job of 33 years as I was unable to walk. At the same point in time, I lost my wife and my home, making me broke and homeless, never to work again. I managed as still signed off sick to get a mortgage on a derelict old cottage in the Welsh Mountains with water running through the walls, and I sure ain't broke now.

That would've been harder to do in the US, I think.

There's still a lot of affordable property in some of our mountain and desert areas and in states like Idaho and Iowa, but they are at least somewhat remote and the jobs are suited to the regions.

 

[Murrmurr]

Hm. We have to survive. We have to eat, have shelter, and since we don't want to live at fear of being murdered in the night we need protection. In the complete absence of everything we call civilization, then sure. At the same time, we can water that down and consider it as a lack of opportunity. I won't bore you (and everyone else) with the numbers, because I think you already know them, but if you're say, black, then generally you're not getting the same opportunities at any stage of your life. It follows all the way from birth, to nurture, to education and old age. You'll statistically lag behind whites. What do you think that breeds? Resentment? Jealousy, perhaps? Anger?

If I'm living in a city where there are fast cars, fast women, fancy restaurants and gold necklaces, could I ever be content with standing on the corner selling newspapers? I think at say, 70 years old - yes. At 14? No. There's only so much of nothing one can take.

Personally I think the problems are due to inequity along with the breakdown of the family unit. It's a moral compass that is often missing. Fatherless families, being brought up in the tenements on social security payments is a drudgery and stain that lasts forever. An education sounds great in the long term, but when you didn't eat yesterday it can quickly take a back seat. Then we have constant, in your face, mantra that money is everything, money is success, money is freedom mentality. Well, who are we kidding, the fastest way to that is selling drugs. Of course, we know what goes along with that, but not everyone lives with a view farther than tomorrow.

I'm not sure how a lack of education doesn't breed poverty, as you say. You say crime, but for me the two are intrinsically linked. When I look at a lot of what's going on in the US today, I see a whole lot of people with educations making some very very bad decisions.

I did not say that a lack of education doesn't breed poverty; it certainly does. I am firm in my conviction that a good education can prevent poverty, however, I agree that adequately educated people can make very poor decisions. That usually (tho, not always) has more to do with their character than their education.

I disagree with just about everything else you said. And that's okay. Still a good discussion.

 

[HoneyNut]

I have enough trouble being prepared for normal emergencies such as electrical outages. I do try to have all my devices charged. (and of course for a long outage the plan is to eat all the ice cream before it melts!)

When I lived in Nebraska the most likely big disaster would be if a tornado struck, and I did do prep for that (open cat carrier near the door, wind-up powered radio etc, kitty litter in a bucket as emergency toilet in the tornado reinforced concrete shelter-closet, etc).

I was not prepared when there was a flood in Nebraska, and the insane highway planners had put the main highway down at ground level near the rivers and so after the initial 4 days of being cut off from home, the only route was the 100 yr old road and bridge (because people 100 yrs ago had better sense).

Mostly I depend on the government to have disaster preparations in place, but we saw how that worked in New Orleans and then again when Covid came and the govt preppers apparently didn't have enough gloves and masks stock piled. I think the red cross does pretty well in disasters, so that is a comfort that there'd be someplace to go to sleep and be fed.

 

[Old Salt]

I did not say that a lack of education doesn't breed poverty; it certainly does. I am firm in my conviction that a good education can prevent poverty, however, I agree that adequately educated people can make very poor decisions. That usually (tho, not always) has more to do with their character than their education.

I disagree with just about everything else you said. And that's okay. Still a good discussion.

Thank you @Murrmurr , I love tolerance and civilised discussions! What a great forum!

 

[VaughanJB]

Today, science is as corrupt as politics.

With respect, no it's not. Firstly there is no organization or business called "Science". Science is simply a word with a meaning. I looked it up so I got this precisely correct:

"Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence."

The scientific process is not corrupt, and in fact it's the very best method we've ever devised to arrive at truth. Science is alive and well.

Now, that said, when you look at the huge world of scientists, there are among them bad apples. Fair enough, it's sadly part of all human endeavors. Someone somewhere is trying to cheat or cut corners. However, the vast majority are good, honest, hard working folk working tirelessly toward whatever goal they have. And again, we've never found a better method.

Of course, we also face attacks on science, last surfacing in a big way with the Covid-19 vaccine. Social Media was used to distribute conspiracy theories and falsities. A good number of people took this gossip as gospel, and they began to attack science as a whole. Even when the theories were debunked, they didn't want to listen, because you know, all of science had been demonized. That's a people problem, not a scientific problem.

When you think about it, there were some really silly conspiracy theories out there. For example, that the vaccine contained microchips. Whereas, if a scientist had done their work properly, and if the chips existed, they would easily have been irrefutable evidence they were there. But of course, that never happened because a) there are no chips in the vaccine; b) why should those on Social Media do the hard scientific work when they could simply jump to a (false) conclusion and get their desired effect?

Of course, we do have "Big Pharma". The thing there is that a) Big Pharma produces all kinds of drugs that help millions of people every single day; b) They exist to make profit. It's the drive for profit, the capitalist notion of it, that can corrupt. So drugs are over-priced, patents abused, and so on. Whether you think that's right or wrong depends, I guess. If you're a staunch capitalist, aren't they simply exploiting the market and extracting maximum profit for their shareholders? If you're sick and can't afford your meds, they're evil. Wherever you fall, science isn't hurt by it, not as a discipline.

Fortunately, the scientific process is such that false data will eventually be weeded out and exposed. It may not happen overnight, but the process demands it is done. If you're investigating something, always look for three or four sources of different political persuasion, before coming to any conclusion. Oh, and don't buy supplements from crazy radio hosts.

 

[officerripley]

With respect, no it's not. Firstly there is no organization or business called "Science". Science is simply a word with a meaning. I looked it up so I got this precisely correct:

"Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence."

The scientific process is not corrupt, and in fact it's the very best method we've ever devised to arrive at truth. Science is alive and well.

Now, that said, when you look at the huge world of scientists, there are among them bad apples. Fair enough, it's sadly part of all human endeavors. Someone somewhere is trying to cheat or cut corners. However, the vast majority are good, honest, hard working folk working tirelessly toward whatever goal they have. And again, we've never found a better method.

Of course, we also face attacks on science, last surfacing in a big way with the Covid-19 vaccine. Social Media was used to distribute conspiracy theories and falsities. A good number of people took this gossip as gospel, and they began to attack science as a whole. Even when the theories were debunked, they didn't want to listen, because you know, all of science had been demonized. That's a people problem, not a scientific problem.

When you think about it, there were some really silly conspiracy theories out there. For example, that the vaccine contained microchips. Whereas, if a scientist had done their work properly, and if the chips existed, they would easily have been irrefutable evidence they were there. But of course, that never happened because a) there are no chips in the vaccine; b) why should those on Social Media do the hard scientific work when they could simply jump to a (false) conclusion and get their desired effect?

Of course, we do have "Big Pharma". The thing there is that a) Big Pharma produces all kinds of drugs that help millions of people every single day; b) They exist to make profit. It's the drive for profit, the capitalist notion of it, that can corrupt. So drugs are over-priced, patents abused, and so on. Whether you think that's right or wrong depends, I guess. If you're a staunch capitalist, aren't they simply exploiting the market and extracting maximum profit for their shareholders? If you're sick and can't afford your meds, they're evil. Wherever you fall, science isn't hurt by it, not as a discipline.

Fortunately, the scientific process is such that false data will eventually be weeded out and exposed. It may not happen overnight, but the process demands it is done. If you're investigating something, always look for three or four sources of different political persuasion, before coming to any conclusion. Oh, and don't buy supplements from crazy radio hosts.

So true!

 

[VaughanJB]

I did not say that a lack of education doesn't breed poverty; it certainly does. I am firm in my conviction that a good education can prevent poverty, however, I agree that adequately educated people can make very poor decisions. That usually (tho, not always) has more to do with their character than their education.

I disagree with just about everything else you said. And that's okay. Still a good discussion.

Indeed, the alternative to disagreements is either to be a clique or a sycophant. Yikes!

And of course, an education is better than none. Of course these days we seem to have gone right back to the drawing board about what should, and what should not, be taught to children and at what age. It's as though we don't have hundreds of years of experience behind us. There's way too much outrage, and nowhere near enough listening, imo.

I also suppose that in a society that batters people about success as measured by wealth, the car you drive, the square footage of your home, the clothes and jewelry, that there will always be a segment of the population that wants to take the short cut. For them, crime is an option. Although, it's interesting because whenever I hear of someone committing a crime it's for a reason: Getting drug money; revenge; angst.

I'm reminded of a line from Bob Dylan's song, Jokerman: Steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king. There are people that see this and will react negatively to it. I had opportunity in my life, but I never had billionaire level opportunities! I do think the societal system today is geared against parts of our society, and opportunity is not equal, or close to it.

 

[Been There]

Except I would argue that a lack of education breeds crime, not poverty.

In the "West," there are many avenues for overcoming poverty, and everyone has access to them. It's far more difficult to overcome a lack of education, usually because, by the time one is suffering due to a lack of education, they are in poverty, so they're facing both challenges simultaneously.

Those people often just give up.

I agree, but these are all choices we make for ourself. Do we stay in school and get more or a better education or do we drop out, join a gang and sell drugs? If we drop out for whatever reason, we run the risk of getting a lower paying job. So, my point is that one of our choices can conflict with the other. Drop out=lower education=lower pay scale (in most cases).

Stay in school=get a better education and then go out into the job market and most likely=get a better paying job.

This is why many people favor school choice. Most people repeat that the better schools are in the suburbs. Allowing inner city children to go to schools in the suburbs should give them a better education. If you or I spend 6 years in an inner city school, we may not get the same quality of education as a child that spent 6 years in a school in the suburbs.

I was reading a story in the WSJ that was written by a person 18 years of age. She said that her first 2 years (grades 9 & 10) were spent in going to a school in the inner city of Philadelphia. When she had finished 10th grade, her family moved to the suburbs and she went to school at Rustin High School in West Chester. While in Philly and in 10th grade, she ended up with 3-C’s, 3-D’s and 1 F. When she graduated from Rustin, she got 2-A’s, 4-B’s and 1 C. She credited her marks in grades 11 and 12 to the quality of teaching.

I know that’s only 1 case, but what if that would be the new normal? Wouldn’t it be worth the risk of trying school choice? I have heard this same scenario over and over before. What we are doing now doesn’t seem to be working, so why not try something different?

 

[bobcat]

Except I would argue that a lack of education breeds crime, not poverty.

In the "West," there are many avenues for overcoming poverty, and everyone has access to them. It's far more difficult to overcome a lack of education, usually because, by the time one is suffering due to a lack of education, they are in poverty, so they're facing both challenges simultaneously.

Those people often just give up.

Could be true, but I'm still of the opinion that poverty often breeds desperation, and desperation often breeds crime. Not always true, but it happens.
Just my opinion, but I get what you're saying.

 

[Murrmurr]

I agree, but these are all choices we make for ourself. Do we stay in school and get more or a better education or do we drop out, join a gang and sell drugs? If we drop out for whatever reason, we run the risk of getting a lower paying job. So, my point is that one of our choices can conflict with the other. Drop out=lower education=lower pay scale (in most cases).

Stay in school=get a better education and then go out into the job market and most likely=get a better paying job.

This is why many people favor school choice. Most people repeat that the better schools are in the suburbs. Allowing inner city children to go to schools in the suburbs should give them a better education. If you or I spend 6 years in an inner city school, we may not get the same quality of education as a child that spent 6 years in a school in the suburbs.

I was reading a story in the WSJ that was written by a person 18 years of age. She said that her first 2 years (grades 9 & 10) were spent in going to a school in the inner city of Philadelphia. When she had finished 10th grade, her family moved to the suburbs and she went to school at Rustin High School in West Chester. While in Philly and in 10th grade, she ended up with 3-C’s, 3-D’s and 1 F. When she graduated from Rustin, she got 2-A’s, 4-B’s and 1 C. She credited her marks in grades 11 and 12 to the quality of teaching.

I know that’s only 1 case, but what if that would be the new normal? Wouldn’t it be worth the risk of trying school choice? I have heard this same scenario over and over before. What we are doing now doesn’t seem to be working, so why not try something different?

Actually, my complaint is that schools in general do not offer a good education. Schools in poorer areas have a history of doing better (or they did a couple decades ago), mainly because they focus on academics. Without the "toys" and distractions that schools in better neighborhoods can afford, not only must they focus more on basic academics, they tend to make learning as interesting and enjoyable as possible. Many teachers who teach in those areas came from those areas, and sincerely want their students to achieve. And they know what works.

School choice would force schools to be competitive, so I agree, it would be a very positive change.

 

[Knight]

What kind of Marine would I be if I didn’t have a plan for most any egregious situation? I didn’t have a plan for what happened last night.

Always something good if you look for it.
Now that you have that experience you can be prepared if you ever get asked to a midnight wedding.

How were the pancakes?

 

[MarkD]

Definitely not. Death is coming but I don’t expect anything so dramatic as nuclear warfare. Actuarial tables don’t lie. The end is near but I hope it won’t be the end for everybody. Still no way I can plan for everyone else anyhow.

 

[Been There]

Actually, my complaint is that schools in general do not offer a good education. Schools in poorer areas have a history of doing better (or they did a couple decades ago), mainly because they focus on academics. Without the "toys" and distractions that schools in better neighborhoods can afford, not only must they focus more on basic academics, they tend to make learning as interesting and enjoyable as possible. Many teachers who teach in those areas came from those areas, and sincerely want their students to achieve. And they know what works.

School choice would force schools to be competitive, so I agree, it would be a very positive change.

I also believe that “some” charter schools in our area are underrated. During COVID, I filled in as a sub when teachers called off and before they went virtual. I don’t have a degree in education, but they were given an exceptions by the Governor to use scholars without education diplomas to use us as substitutes.

 

[debodun]